ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 After fighting the Juggernaut several times (without a Mesa mind you) I have to say this was an excellent boss fight and the best one DE has made in a very long time. The Juggernaut's attacks and weak point sections were spot on, however there some things that I felt werent necessary in the fight: The sticky spawn floor attack: The fact that Infested are spawned from the boss is a great mechanic however I think the amount of infested spawned at a time should be toned down a bit. The sticky floor was just unnecessary and frustrating, thus taking attention away from how good the fight itself was. Im all for spawning infested but sticky floor needs to go. Weak points: The weak point on the stomach is a great mechanic however I think the duration should be increased by about .25 to .5 seconds, i've heard from Boltor (Prime) and projectile based weapons users having trouble hitting the point in the small window of exposure. Now the weak point on his back you would never know about unless someone told you or you happened to hit it by accident at the right time when it opens up. I suggest this be made glowing as well to be consistent with the weak point on the stomach. Attacks: The only things I have to suggest about attacks is to make the missiles have a slight homing function that can be easily dodged and for the charge to be a bit slower to allow people to dodge it in more than .5 second reaction time. As for the gas attack I honestly dont know what its supposed to do but to me it seems like nothing at all happens. Environment: The arena itself is good but could use some tweaks. For one things like pipes and such on the walls should either be removed or give the Juggernaut an ability to "pull" players off of them and back into the arena, such as if they go above a certain height they get pulled but it would be high enough to still allow for parkour. The point is to prevent Mesa users and others from going up there where the boss cant hit them and taking him out in less than a minute with Peacemaker. I dont mean to rain on your parade but at least give this guy a fighting chance instead of that. Conclusion: It seems to me that the problem with DE's bosses is that DE knows how to make giant bosses properly but dont know how to make man sized bosses properly. I mean the Juggernaut for a first version is pretty damn awesome to fight in my opinion and a lot more fun than say Sargus Ruk or Mutalist Alad V who are man sized bosses. This is just from my own observations of Warframe bosses in relation to eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unless something changed, Juggernaut isn't a boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husla Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unless something changed, Juggernaut isn't a boss... Technically for this TA, it is a boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unless something changed, Juggernaut isn't a boss... Define "boss" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indaris Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unless something changed, Juggernaut isn't a boss... He's the boss of this tactical alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishmashmarsh Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm confused have you ever played lost planet 2 may I ask? The boss fights there where good but the boss fight on warframe... not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unless something changed, Juggernaut isn't a boss... Even though the node says "crossfire", it uses the coding of Phorid Assassination. So yes, Juggernaut is a boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It seems to me that the problem with DE's bosses is that DE knows how to make giant bosses properly but dont know how to make man sized bosses properly. The mechanism is pretty similar to Lech Kril: bait the boss to attack you --> boss attacks you, exposing some weak points --> shoot said weak points, rinse and repeat. Oh and the boss (a) is invulnerable except on said weak points (Kril's pipe/backpack vs. Jugg's back/belly); (b) shoots a projectile that slows you down (Lech Kril's ice wave vs. Jugg's tar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidathe Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Conclusion: It seems to me that the problem with DE's bosses is that DE knows how to make giant bosses properly but dont know how to make man sized bosses properly. I mean the Juggernaut for a first version is pretty damn awesome to fight in my opinion and a lot more fun than say Sargus Ruk or Mutalist Alad V who are man sized bosses. This is just from my own observations of Warframe bosses in relation to eachother. Giants are easy; make 'em massive badasses of doom. Humanoids are hard. You have to make 'em intelligent...which leads to the issue of them dying too fast to display intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Giants are easy; make 'em massive badasses of doom. Humanoids are hard. You have to make 'em intelligent...which leads to the issue of them dying too fast to display intelligence. Seems to be the byproduct to the engine not being able to support smarter AI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 The mechanism is pretty similar to Lech Kril: bait the boss to attack you --> boss attacks you, exposing some weak points --> shoot said weak points, rinse and repeat. Oh and the boss (a) is invulnerable except on said weak points (Kril's pipe/backpack vs. Jugg's back/belly); (b) shoots a projectile that slows you down (Lech Kril's ice wave vs. Jugg's tar). Except that the Jugg can be damaged at any time despite the damage mitigation and the slow attack spawns infested as well. Its additions/changes to existing mechanics that make it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunero Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 You seriously think this is a good boss? It has a freaking damage cap on it for gods sake. It has everything that makes it unfun and boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Except that the Jugg can be damaged at any time despite the damage mitigation and the slow attack spawns infested as well. Its additions/changes to existing mechanics that make it better Juggz spawns with a minimum of 280,000 HP, often creeping past 300k depending on your party. Damage to his armored shell is capped at 100, and most players will have trouble breaking 50 I definitely agree that this is better than Lech Kril's "no screw you i'm invulnerable right now" stupidity, but purely objectively it doesn't mean much more... Which is why I'm thankful that I'm not purely objective :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailith Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The slowing goop definitely needs to go, it's bad enough that Tar Moas have it, but at least they can't inflict massive damage on you as well. I think the missile attack is mostly fine but it needs better visual effects for the projectiles, they seem to fly off in random directions and only fly for a set distance, but you can still take damage from across the entire arena. They also need to do something about the gas/poison attack. You may not have noticed it, but it deals tons of damage if you stand in it for even a few seconds. The problem though is that it's not very clear as to what areas are safe, the initial projectiles/blobs either sink into the ground or disappear very quickly and the clouds are barely noticeable unless you view them from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 You seriously think this is a good boss? It has a freaking damage cap on it for gods sake. It has everything that makes it unfun and boring.And you're basing the fun factor on a damage cap. Neither of those are related to eachother in the slightest.Sure he has a damage cap, but does that really determine whether the fight itself (not how fast can you kill him) is fun or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCatLad Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sidenote: There's little to no reason to re-fight bosses once you have the Frame. Hopefully starchart changes will bring about something new or cool ......Token system for unique rewards/weapons cough cough. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunero Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) And you're basing the fun factor on a damage cap. Neither of those are related to eachother in the slightest. Sure he has a damage cap, but does that really determine whether the fight itself (not how fast can you kill him) is fun or not? I didn't forma my Opticor 6 times to have its damage capped lol so yes, this makes it very unfun to me. Edit: Not to mention this screws over slow firing weapon users overall. Edited June 5, 2015 by Momo93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I didn't forma my Opticor 6 times to have its damage capped lol so yes, this makes it very unfun to me. Again, the fight being fun has nothing to do with killing it in less than a minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 +9999 OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoiiToori Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 But all I did was go stealth and whack it with my Ash though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunero Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Again, the fight being fun has nothing to do with killing it in less than a minute You are wrong. Fun is different for everyone. It's fun to me if I can mow down things very fast. Bosses should cater to everyone not just to a specific group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) You are wrong. Fun is different for everyone. It's fun to me if I can mow down things very fast. Bosses should cater to everyone not just to a specific group. Fair enough but you should know that that is nearly impossible to cater to everyone Edited June 5, 2015 by ToxicTroublermaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin_Gr Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I don't really like the bosses in this game in general. It seems to be a lot of waiting around while he or she decides to be completely invincible for no discernible reason. I guess Jugg is slightly better because he just takes massively reduced damage at all times and it fits with the concept of a Juggernaut, but that probably doesn't help new players to learn faster ways of doing it. They might just do it the hard way and make threads complaining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Weapons with punch through should be able to deal more damage. Make Gas ignore its armor, damage cap is fine for most weapons. Snipers should not be capped though when hitting its weak spot. It should have huge diminishing returns when hit by M Prime. Insert many other suggestions that could make it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letir Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Damage cap is awful mechanic and should not be used on any good boss or miniboss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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