The Energy System Is Not Why We Can Spam No Need For A Rework

[Doughalo2]

The solution to spamming ? well wait for it..... (gonna blow your mind)

 

 

 

remove fleeting expertise ---------------------> success 

[Stormandreas]

No, because that doesn't solve anything. people can still go Trinity with them and spam energy vampire.

And what about frames that work best/well with efficiency (Limbo, Mesa, Chroma, Hydroid, Banshee)?

[--Nef-Anyo--]

Play solo ;-) 

[counterflux]

remove fleeting expertise ---------------------> RANT

 

I like ability spamming. On some frames it breaks the game. I agree to that, but on other frames it makes the game a lot better.

I just can't imagine some frames without max efficiency. (limbo for example. I'm always low on energy at max efficiency) 

[NikolaiLev]

Yeah, fleeting expertise really needs to be removed or nerfed into the dirt, it's too good.

[Doughalo2]

No, because that doesn't solve anything. people can still go Trinity with them and spam energy vampire.

And what about frames that work best/well with efficiency (Limbo, Mesa, Chroma, Hydroid, Banshee)?

lol just add cooldown for just her energy vamp, problem solved

[Spot.]

lol just add cooldown for just her energy vamp, problem solved

Powers use to have cooldowns. Had.

[ReizoRyuu]

Removing fleeting would absolutely ruin Ember again, she needs to be able to spam accelerant for that stun otherwise she's freaking dead.

This is not how you fix anything.

[Stormandreas]

lol just add cooldown for just her energy vamp, problem solved

Its been tried before, and it didn't work, so no.

[Doughalo2]

Its been tried before, and it didn't work, so no.

 

Removing fleeting would absolutely ruin Ember again, she needs to be able to spam accelerant for that stun otherwise she's freaking dead.

This is not how you fix anything.

You guys arnt seeing the bigger picture are you, the simple solution to both of these it reduce spawns, spamming is why spawns are so high

[ReizoRyuu]

Yeah let's reduce spawns, might as well turn it into a cover based shooter while you're at it.

[Eldnacpeek]

Troll thread, move on. Waste of time reading, waste of energy replying with actual arguments.

[Mathemagics]

omg my 2 faw frames excal and booben would suck without spammable abilites.

[DameDameNingen]

I think the problem is ability design actually, and the way so many frames have radial nukes, aka the F- Everything button. Being able to spam venom or molt is fine, it's miasma spam that's the problem. DE does seem to be moving away from this approach with more recent frames (and the excalibur rework), mesa being the obvious exception.

[Repligon]

I think best solution would be giving energy for dealing damage. Give weapons new stat - energy absorption. Your squadmates get 50% of energy absorbed by you (like affinity).

 

Reliable customizable energy source. No more energy balls drops -> less rng.

New weapon stat as balancing factor. Give boltor prime and other OP guns close to 0 absorption and large absorbtion values to underrated guns.

Enemies killed with powers give no energy -> no killing by spamming without Trinity.

Turn EV into absorption booster -> no killing by spamming even with Trinity.

[BluelitHalo]

I think the problem is ability design actually, and the way so many frames have radial nukes, aka the F- Everything button. Being able to spam venom or molt is fine, it's miasma spam that's the problem. DE does seem to be moving away from this approach with more recent frames (and the excalibur rework), mesa being the obvious exception.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this.  At a time, this old F- Everything button was justifiable as an emergency nuke back when Energy acquisition was at a slower rate.  It added to the co-op experience to hit that button when all hope was lost and enough energy was gathered.   But with how spammable it is now, it diminishes the co-op experience by leaving itself exploitable so that one person enjoys all the killing, while the rest are forced to just sit back and support the nuker.  But in horde gameplay, the fun primarily stems from the killing, so everyone should be able to enjoy that.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Sonitorum

[Wargasm_v2.X]

The game was profoundly impacted with the release of Corrupted mods as if zero testing was done beforehand to see what the overall impact would be.

 

First, it was M Prime spamming Novas blowing up entire rooms of enemies. 

 

Then, with the release of Syndicates, a farming method was perfected showcasing just how overpowered those mods were coupled with broken frame abilities.  To fuel this stationary abomination people began utilizing Energy restores which before, were rarely seen or used.

 

And now you have Human Energy Restores called Greedy Pull Mag fueling Press 4 to Win frames like Mesa who literally stand in one spot and press a button.

 

Warframe has devolved from a very fun, exciting 3rd person action melee/shooter hybrid to a stale, (but efficient!) "I Win" button farming simulator.

[Scryed]

The game was profoundly impacted with the release of Corrupted mods as if zero testing was done beforehand to see what the overall impact would be.

 

First, it was M Prime spamming Novas blowing up entire rooms of enemies. 

 

Then, with the release of Syndicates, a farming method was perfected showcasing just how overpowered those mods were coupled with broken frame abilities.  To fuel this stationary abomination people began utilizing Energy restores which before, were rarely seen or used.

 

And now you have Human Energy Restores called Greedy Pull Mag fueling Press 4 to Win frames like Mesa who literally stand in one spot and press a button.

 

Warframe has devolved from a very fun, exciting 3rd person action melee/shooter hybrid to a stale, (but efficient!) "I Win" button farming simulator.

And the reason ability spam came to be is because the xp rate is too damn low unless you have a booster, that is why people are doing draco and everything else with ability spam because people don't wanna do like 25 missions and only be level 15 on whatever they are leveling when they can go to xp farm and do that twice and max their weapons.

[TrickBox]

As long as the grind pay more than the skill the spamming won't go away, that's all

 

Cooldown can be good, but only for some abilities (I'm looking at you Miasma), coupled with mods to decrease it (it will force us to use them for spamming builds and reduce efficiency or survability).

Edited June 10, 2015 by TrickBox

[(PSN)VariantX7]

The solution to spamming ? well wait for it..... (gonna blow your mind)

 

 

 

remove fleeting expertise ---------------------> success 

Which will do nothing. You could still spam plenty with streamline, large energy restores, rage, and any other mod or arcane that affects power consumption or max energy value. You either add cool-downs, make frames much less energy efficient, or introduce enemies that make it bad to power spam.

Edited June 11, 2015 by (PS4)VariantX7

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Fleeting Expertise is part of the energy system...

[Madrox8]

As long as the grind pay more than the skill the spamming won't go away, that's all

 

Cooldown can be good, but only for some abilities (I'm looking at you Miasma), coupled with mods to decrease it (it will force us to use them for spamming builds and reduce efficiency or survability).

this is acually a good idea, creates more build diversity in the process which builds a more complex / deep game mechanics

[taiiat]

both Energy Orbs and Efficiency are highly effective at Energy availability.

both are part of the problem of being able to mindlessly use Abilities without any qualms.

a sort of "it's everyone's fault" situation.

- - - - -

here's a thought though. repeated use of Abilities causes the Cost to increase temporarily. so cast 1 costs... 25E, cast 2 would cost... 10% more? and increase by 10% with each successive cast?

would be somewhat similar to 'overheating' systems, you can use it a lot, but if you use it too much, you can run into problems.

Edit:

because people don't wanna do like 25 missions and only be level 15 on whatever they are leveling

AFKFarming is very much not necessary. a popular choice for less abusive Players includes playing 20 Waves of any random Void Defense. Edited June 10, 2015 by taiiat

[TheBrsrkr]

To remove ability spam, a lot of things are going to have to go at the same time. Fleeting alone just won't cut it.

[Cerebrum123]

both Energy Orbs and Efficiency are highly effective at Energy availability.

both are part of the problem of being able to mindlessly use Abilities without any qualms.

a sort of "it's everyone's fault" situation.

- - - - -

here's a thought though. repeated use of Abilities causes the Cost to increase temporarily. so cast 1 costs... 25E, cast 2 would cost... 10% more? and increase by 10% with each successive cast?

would be somewhat similar to 'overheating' systems, you can use it a lot, but if you use it too much, you can run into problems.

Edit:

AFKFarming is very much not necessary. a popular choice for less abusive Players includes playing 20 Waves of any random Void Defense.

Would toggled abilities then get more expensive the longer they are on?