Pvp - Kogake

[Anubias]

Okay i think we all got our fair share of ppl who killed you in the corner with this "op" weapon with martial magnetism and with frame that have all stamina mods this melee weapon should either be nerfed or removed from conclave overall. Its cheap and the fact that you can have basically infinite stamina is really unfair in pvp matches

[Thalahssalyst]

Because no one can evade a kogake user, and MM just work when in melee mode actually.
Because "infinite stamina" is fine while coptering or flying around, but no while blocking with the low dps on melee weapons, or "press E to win"

Because if DE remove or reduce the kogake utility when people starts with other melee weapons, more threads like this is going to start.
 

[Anubias]

But dont you think it is a little unfair that if 1 guy melee's whole other team that constantly shoot him and he does not give a fudge about it. And personally i find other melee weapons pretty balanced only kogake is op imo

Edited June 12, 2015 by Anubias

[rockscl]

the way you present the situation makes me wonder what have you tried to get rid of a kogake full melee player, can you detail that? what is your answer to a kogake player in the match?

[Issun135]

I have yet to use martial magnetism on the anku which could be even more op as a full run through of the spinning combo kills just about everything.

[Thalahssalyst]

But dont you think it is a little unfair that if 1 guy melee's whole other team that constantly shoot him and he does not give a fudge about it. And personally i find other melee weapons pretty balanced only kogake is op imo

I dont think so, i see unfair how underpowered are currently most of the melee weapons.

No spin damage bonus (coz coptering i think)

No headshot damage (cuz press E to win is easy)

when doing combos you are open to damage and stuck in mid of animations...

If 1 guy can play like you say, jisus, i see a skilled melee boy...

[Rhaenxys]

I started to play with melee only mode furax and it has great damage, low stamina comsuption and great attack speed and still dont get why people are so upset about melee.

 

Melee is great in 1vs1 situations, against multiple players is pretty bad, kogake knockback effect can easily be avoided or use powers when they are in the middle of the animation so the defense mod while blocking doesnt work.

 

I dont really have a problem with kogake at all, it was awful when martial magnetism works when your primary out but currently is not much of a threat.

[rockscl]

 

 

there is a bunch of weapons that have enough reliability to be used in full melee, if all the melee system was working right skanas would be as reliable as furax and furax would be as hard to use as skana

Edited June 12, 2015 by rockscl

[Nighttide77]

I keep trying to communicate...if DE takes away Kogake's slide attack knockdown, people will just revert to other knockdown moves...

 

I also keep trying to share that rolling and aerial melee and other animations cancel knockdowns.

 

Unless DE decides to remove knockdowns from PvP, probably the best solution is to have at least a 2 second knockdown/stagger immunity after getting hit.

[Aggh]

The only time kogake is a real threat is when your team mates don't know how to deal with it; they get destroyed and you're stuck in 2+v1's all game.

[Feyangol]

It's the noob tube of Warframe ...

It's not op, it's just a good way for noob stomping. They just need to fix all knockdown bugs (Sure footed needs to work properly ... ).

[Nighttide77]

It's the noob tube of Warframe ...

It's not op, it's just a good way for noob stomping. They just need to fix all knockdown bugs (Sure footed needs to work properly ... ).

 

Pretty much this.  Spamming it is easy for a newbie, but it can be overcome with skill.

[Cerenax]

It's attack speed should be reduced, then we will be actually capable of hitting kogake spaming scum mid-copter.

[Cerenax]

And the 'git gud' argument some plp are using here is $&*&*#(%&. Kogake is super fast for coptering and you can block while using it and most kogake spammers will use a warframe with high health and copter around the map non stop. The real noobs here are plp that somehow still manage to get killed by anything other than abilities while they are using such a stupid weapon.

[Kontrollo]

Most Kogake spammers I've encountered don't know how to deal with people who know how to evade them. And there are a lot of options, really:

• Roll.
• Copter away.
• Copter into them. If done right you'll switch places without them being able to knock you down. Shoot them while dancing around each other.
• Jump on a crate. I don't even know how many of them kept spamming it while I was standing above them shooting.
• Air melee high up and shoot them from above.
• If they have MM active, jump from platform to platform. It's hilarious to see them try hitting you and fall to their doom instead.
• Gather enough energy orbs (i.e. 1-4 depending on your 'frame) and play the dumb victim. Most of them absolutely will try to copter into you no matter what, and they do it repeatedly. Somehow it's a thing like insects that are attracted to light, even if it fries them.

The only real annoyance are hosts or enemies in laggy games where they manage to knock you down mid-air somehow. The rest of them are easy enough to deal with.

 

 

... Kogake is super fast for coptering and you can block while using it ...

 

They can block before and after, but not during the copter. There's a time window where you can shoot them a bit and still react fast enough to not get knocked down. Don't try to down them on their first attack, though. There isn't enough time for that.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Kontrollo

[TaylorsContraction]

As many have pointed out Kogake is not that strong. It was a strong strategy when PvP was out first few weeks but after its hitbox got nerfed in PvP most people can avoid it fairly easy. I have not seen any kogake users get a postive KD ratio in the games I've played for a very long time. Nor is kogake spam a strategy I've seen used much either. People have figured out how to counter it and it's not that effective anymore. Most people have moved on. Personally I don't think it's a problem.

[Bojon]

I haven't seen a single thing posted that can't be said about many other melee weapons. Yes, that copter-replacement knockdown can be kinda hard to deal with if you don't escape, but kogake loses in a straight up melee fight against most weapons like dakra, boltace. AND, kogake doesn't get no where near the copter distance as bo or dual swords. If you want to complain about it, realize this. 

 

Slam attacks knockdown with most weapons (try jumping and slamming down on them)

There are two anti-knockdown mods 

everything can block

everything can use martial magnetism

everyone can use the stamina mods

[(PSN)Double991]

The Kogake alone is not really a threat for experienced players. It's the the enhancements to it that make it a real problem. 

 

Volt's Speed ups the DPS quite a bit so you won't get away in a 1v1 if they know what they're doing and have the mods for it. Also is the channeling auto parry still in PvP? It's frustrating to shoot at someone and get a bunch of 0's as they copter towards you. They clearly aren't blocking so the only reasonable explanation is the channeling auto parry.

 

In other words, Volt Prime with Speed and Channeling is very annoying. I see some nice tips in this topic though so i'll give those a try.

[Cerenax]

They can block before and after, but not during the copter.

 

Omg, they have stop bullet-dodging and stun-locking you in order to become practically imortal. So balanced.

[Rakshal]

Relentless Assault is what makes the Kogake overpowered. Remove that mod and suddenly Kogake are in line with other melee weapons.

 

Either remove Relentless Assault or add a knockdown cooldown.

[Kontrollo]

Omg, they have stop bullet-dodging and stun-locking you in order to become practically imortal. So balanced.

 

You can try to belittle what I said all you want, it doesn't change the fact that using Kogake's knockdowns isn't a foolproof copter-to-win playstyle.

 

I get it, you're pissed off because someone got the better of you spamming Kogake's copter. Sometimes they get the better of me as well, though I know how to deal with them. It happens. But usually I can kill them just fine without them being able to put much of a dent in me.

 

Here are two more tips if you want to be on the safe side:

• Use Oberon's Hallowed Ground. Knockdown immunity, increased armour and a high DoT means you can't possibly lose a fight against a Kogake spammer.
  
• Use a Glaive and throw it in their face before evading the knockdown (you'll have to roll, though, until it is back in your hands). They always come at you in a straight line, it's almost impossible to miss a Glaive throw that way. And the damage is high enough to kill them on their second attempt.

 

 

Relentless Assault is what makes the Kogake overpowered. Remove that mod and suddenly Kogake are in line with other melee weapons.

 

Either remove Relentless Assault or add a knockdown cooldown.

 

I wouldn't say overpowered, but it's certainly part of the problem.

[xxaaron5515xx]

Okay i think we all got our fair share of ppl who killed you in the corner with this "op" weapon with martial magnetism and with frame that have all stamina mods this melee weapon should either be nerfed or removed from conclave overall. Its cheap and the fact that you can have basically infinite stamina is really unfair in pvp matches

This issue may or may not be self corrected with the new proposed stamina system. We will have to see.

[(PSN)Double991]

The tactic that has worked the best for me when countering a coptering Kogake user is to just copter over their head the moment they start flipping to you. As Kontrollo mentioned, you will switch places with them and have more time to shoot. If you can't finish them off on the second go, then just remember to copter over their head as many times as needed.

 

If they've already started hitting you, it may be too late.

[-InV-igo95862]

I think it is Martial Magnetism that makes Kogake really broken. It is fine without it as it is difficult to hit.

[Nighttide77]

igo, have you tried to run Kogake without MM?