The Death Of Mastery Locking

[Vargras]

I recently got my friend back into the game. She's still mastery rank 0, still figuring out things. I gifted her Valkyr and some other things (she really likes cats), and so I decide to complete everything by also gifting her the Venka.

 

Except I can't. They're mastery locked. I explain mastery locks (and the mastery system itself) a little bit to her, and she simply replies with a bit of a disinterested "Oh". What purpose does this system serve, other than to dissuade newer players? Mastery locking itself is poorly explained, and based upon yet another poorly explained system (mastery, in general). If they see an item they're interested in, they're forced to level several other weapons they aren't interested in at all, just to get to that one item, and by the time they reach it, they might not even care anymore.

 

Don't even get me started on how I can't trade or gift whatever I might want with people who have been on my friends list for months.

 

[AM-Bunny]

It's supposed to give you something to progress towards.

 

If your friend had half an ounce of interest in the game, she would be inspired by her desire for Venka to raise her Mastery Rank.

 

It adds a degree of 'tiers' to weapons, so that high MR weapons can justifiably be stronger than low ranking ones, and add a sense of progression to weapons, rather than sidegrade after sidegrade.

 

Not saying it's perfect, but why the system is in place fundamentally is a pretty obvious question.

[Burnthesteak87]

You can anyway date her without blaming mastery rank system.

[Vargras]

It's supposed to give you something to progress towards.

 

If your friend had half an ounce of interest in the game, she would be inspired by her desire for Venka to raise her Mastery Rank.

 

It adds a degree of 'tiers' to weapons, so that high MR weapons can justifiably be stronger than low ranking ones, and add a sense of progression to weapons, rather than sidegrade after sidegrade.

 

Not saying it's perfect, but why the system is in place fundamentally is a pretty obvious question.

And the system isn't perfect. Far from it, really. It's extremely dated, given that higher MR weapons are often as good or worse than lower MR weapons.

 

And in what way does mastery locking incentivize progressing towards something? Okay, something I want to use is locked out of use. I now have to level things I don't want to use in order to get to the thing I want to use.

 

That's not good gameplay.

[TeenageGirlVodkaPuke]

Warframe is 2hardcore4girls anyway

 

(ok some girls are MR 19 and better than me at warframe but still)

[Gr3vi3R]

Luckily, you will just have to carry her trough some Defenses and she will be able to wear everything in a level ot two.

 

So just hang on.

[AM-Bunny]

And in what way does mastery locking incentivize progressing towards something? Okay, something I want to use is locked out of use. I now have to level things I don't want to use in order to get to the thing I want to use.

 

Because forcing players to use more weapons means that they're forced to spend more time farming resources, leveling, and playing the game in general. You act as if trying to get players to invest time into the game is a foreign concept.

 

And yeah, it's dated.

[Gr3vi3R]

Or you could just wear the weapon in public games, never use it, and let it level up at its own pace, screwing the game for good.

[Vargras]

Because forcing players to use more weapons means that they're forced to spend more time farming resources, leveling, and playing the game in general. You act as if trying to get players to invest time into the game is a foreign concept.

 

And yeah, it's dated.

Trying to get players invested into the game isn't a foreign concept, but in Warframe's case, it could certainly be handled a lot better than it is now.

 

At the very least, we agree it's a dated mechanic.

[QuiQuQa]

Do you really want to have noobs with Rhino prime and boltor prime from rank 0

You unlock everything at Mr8 as far as i remember and to be honest thats not really hard to get

You can reach Mr2 just with your starter gear

Im not saying that using Rhino or the boltor is bad, its just that giving the best gear in the game to new players will be bad

They will get bored of the game if they dont have any challenge or sence of accomplishment

Edited June 13, 2015 by QuiQuQa

[Vargras]

Do you really want to have noobs with Rhino prime and boltor prime from rank 0

You realize this happens with Prime Access, right? It already has happened. Items bought out of Prime Access bypass the mastery locks. We did have players at MR 0 with those very items you mentioned.

[Tesseract7777]

You realize this happens with Prime Access, right? It already has happened. Items bought out of Prime Access bypass the mastery locks. We did have players at MR 0 with those very items you mentioned.

 

And this is exactly why the current mastery lock system is, excuse me, so much BS right now. If you can just go ahead and pop on over to the market and buy anything mastery locked with Platinum, then that is pay to win. Instead of play to win. It's encouraging people to bypass any skill or what have you at all. And it punishes people who can't afford to spend that platinum, and that's exactly what Warframe shouldn't be. The current master system doesn't encourage player progression, or encourage players to get into the game, it discourages them, and makes them feel like they can't keep up without spending a bunch of real money they may not be able to afford. 

 

Either remove the mastery lock system, or make it not just a suggestion. For example, Chroma quest is rank 5 only, right after the update, I saw rank 0's and 1's running Chroma. What the hell was the point of even putting it behind a mastery wall if anyone with the platinum can pay to win? 

 

By the way, I know I agree with you completely, just using your post as a jumping off point. 

 

And Baro Ki'teer randomly behind MR8 sometimes? Ridiculous. A friend of mine is MR6, almost MR7, he is better than a LOT of players. He just has a low mastery because he doesn't use a lot of frames, he's just really good with one. He experiments with a fair amount of weapons, so he's slowly making his way up, but it takes a lot of time. He is veteran enough that he should be able to buy from Baro, he has more than the skill and play level and can do fine in high level play, but he can't get the items for a ridiculous reason. Last time they had stuff he wanted and I had to help him get them because he's not a high enough mastery. The whole system is antiquated and needs to be replaced. 

 

As long as you can bypass the mastery wall with plat, the mastery wall is flawed and should be done away with or changed. 

Edited June 13, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[Vargras]

And this is exactly why the current mastery lock system is, excuse me, so much BS right now. If you can just go ahead and pop on over to the market and buy anything mastery locked with Platinum, then that is pay to win. Instead of play to win. It's encouraging people to bypass any skill or what have you at all. And it punishes people who can't afford to spend that platinum, and that's exactly what Warframe shouldn't be. The current master system doesn't encourage player progression, or encourage players to get into the game, it discourages them, and makes them feel like they can't keep up without spending a bunch of real money they may not be able to afford. 

 

Either remove the mastery lock system, or make it not just a suggestion. For example, Chroma quest is rank 5 only, right after the update, I saw rank 0's and 1's running Chroma. What the hell was the point of even putting it behind a mastery wall if anyone with the platinum can pay to win?

That's not pay-to-win though, not even close. You still end up with the very same items as someone else who crafts it -- all you're saving is time.

[Tesseract7777]

That's not pay-to-win though, not even close. You still end up with the very same items as someone else who crafts it -- all you're saving is time.

 

That's kind of my point though. 

 

The idea of the mastery wall, people argue, is to enforce player progression. 

 

But there's no point in enforcing player progression if you can just bypass it with money. 

 

Time in a way is money, for a lot of gamers anyway. Many have a very limited amount of time to play. 

[fatpig84]

It's not pay to win.

It's pay for convenience.

 

Weapon packs and Prime Access themselves bypasses MR.

But buying weapons alone subject you to their full MR requirements.

 

In any case, this is same as any other FPS in games.

You don't unlock all weapons and attachments at Private.

 

You have to slog through them.

[Tesseract7777]

Is that really the case though? 

 

I would argue bypassing a wall that players normally have to slog through for months, with money, is the exact definition of pay to win. Call it convenience, call it bypassing time. You are still getting stuff that players who get it without money have to spend months grinding to get the mastery to use (and most gamers can't play often enough to grind it much quicker).

 

In my experiences, when games are offering non cosmetics for real money, or letting you get past restrictions like that with real money, it never leads to anything good...

Edited June 13, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[fatpig84]

Is that really the case though? 

 

I would argue bypassing a wall that players normally have to slog through for months, with money, is the exact definition of pay to win. Call it convenience, call it bypassing time. You are still getting stuff that players who get it without money have to spend months grinding to get the mastery to use (and most gamers can't play often enough to grind it much quicker).

 

In my experiences, when games are offering non cosmetics for real money, or letting you get past restrictions like that with real money, it never leads to anything good...

 

 

Months ?

I dunno man, honestly it took me 3 days for Anku from research.

12 hours to build.

And I almost level it to max in 3 games of kiste.

That is within 12 hours. I am sure if you go hue Draco, you get it done in 4 rounds.

So at most 4 days and that is a clantech research weapon. 

 

If it is non clan tech, 12/24 hours to build (barring weapons that need weapons) and again.

Same thing, it is really quick.

 

But again this is from a vet perspective.

I have being playing since U8. I finish new content as fast as they get released.

I deliberately avoid farming prime frames until the next prime frame appear, so I am always 1 prime behind.

 

Reason ? 

Because I want to slow down my game.

The game is pretty damn easy to progress imo.

Coming from a vet of Korean MMO, WF grind is easy.

 

 

As for OP, I am not sure why would you want to gift her Valkyr at the get go though.

I just find it risky.

 

If the player can't even be committed enough to hit 30 for their first 3 weapon and 1 frame, this is really not the game for them.

That is what Starter gear is for. To see if the player can be committed enough to play.

Edited June 13, 2015 by fatpig84

[trst]

It's to give a sense of progress.

 

Also the Venka is a clan-tech weapon and is locked at MR 3.

By the time a new player actually learns the game, finds a clan to join, can build Forma, and has farmed the resources for all of that; chances are they're already past MR3.

 

Plus Mastery Rank serves to place weapons in 'tiers'. You don't want newer players going and getting their hands on things like an Amprex or Syndicate weapons that early. Primes exsist in a weird spot that they're intended to be earned through Void runs and I doubt DE expected players to be getting Prime Access or trading for Boltor/Rhino Primes a week into the game.

[Tesseract7777]

You may be misunderstanding what I mean. 

 

I'm talking about how long it takes each specific gamer to increase their mastery rank. 

 

There are founders who play semi-regularly and still aren't in the double digits. I'm talking about how hard it is for a lot of people who don't have a ton of gaming time, to increase their mastery quickly. 

 

The only way for most non super hardcore players to increase their mastery in more than a few months, would be to grind like crazy in Draco or something. And most vets say newbies getting taxied to Draco is not something they want to be happening, some even want taxi's done away with for reasons like that. 

 

That's more what I'm talking about. For example, from the time I first started playing, and I was playing a pretty good bit and trying out a lot of stuff, more than the average player would, and it still took me almost six months to reach MR8. 

 

I'm not saying we can't have a mastery wall at all, or a mastery wall is a terrible idea in general, I'm saying it's silly to have a mastery wall if it can just be bypassed with platinum. 

Edited June 13, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[Telekinendo]

 

In any case, this is same as any other FPS in games.

You don't unlock all weapons and attachments at Private.

 

 

To be fair, Call of Duty Black Ops one (maybe two I wouldn't know I never played it) let you buy which items you wanted at any point as long as you could afford it.

 

As for the Mastery system, when I first started I wanted the HEK sooooo badly, but I didn't understand how to get Mastery. I got Rhino and simply... never used anything else. Then I got the Strun and the same thing happened. I found the game on my own and had no idea how to do anything. 

 

Eventually I met someone who gave me the Boar Prime and explained everything, but this was so far later I had better weapons and didn't care. 

 

I still haven't gotten the HEK yet.

 

 

 

 

There are founders who play semi-regularly and still aren't in the double digits. I'm talking about how hard it is for a lot of people who don't have a ton of gaming time, to increase their mastery quickly. 

 

 

I started playing right after the game came out of Closed Beta and I only reached MR 10 a few weeks ago.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Telekinendo

[fatpig84]

Well I routinely play WF about 1 to 2 hours a day and I still can get my exp running.

But i consider 2 hours a day a luxury for most people and yes I am a working adult.

Or maybe i just like WF a lot :p

 

It's to give a sense of progress.

 

Also the Venka is a clan-tech weapon and is locked at MR 3.

By the time a new player actually learns the game, finds a clan to join, can build Forma, and has farmed the resources for all of that; chances are they're already past MR3.

 

Plus Mastery Rank serves to place weapons in 'tiers'. You don't want newer players going and getting their hands on things like an Amprex or Syndicate weapons that early. Primes exsist in a weird spot that they're intended to be earned through Void runs and I doubt DE expected players to be getting Prime Access or trading for Boltor/Rhino Primes a week into the game.

 

Fact is. You can.

Reaching 30 on the starter kit puts you on MR2. 

Which is enough to start trading for the higher end prime items.

Edited June 13, 2015 by fatpig84

[trst]

Fact is. You can.

Reaching 30 on the starter kit puts you on MR2. 

Which is enough to start trading for the higher end prime items.

But how many players are going to know what these Primes are or even have things they can trade for? I would hope the whole MR2 Rhino/Boltor Prime combo is a rare site.

 

If players want to pay their way through a game they barely know anything about then they can. It's just as bad as gifting higher-leveled content to them. It ends up hurting the player either way.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

You realize this happens with Prime Access, right? It already has happened. Items bought out of Prime Access bypass the mastery locks. We did have players at MR 0 with those very items you mentioned.

If they haven't updated it yet. Most prime weapons don't have a mastery requirement.

[fatpig84]

But how many players are going to know what these Primes are or even have things they can trade for? I would hope the whole MR2 Rhino/Boltor Prime combo is a rare site.

 

If players want to pay their way through a game they barely know anything about then they can. It's just as bad as gifting higher-leveled content to them. It ends up hurting the player either way.

 

No smoke without fire dude.

That is why the Rhino Prime / Boltor Prime meme thing in WF is so prevalent.

Granted seeing all MR2s running around with that is a bit of a stretch.

 

But at it's height, it was fairly common to see MR2 to MR5s running around with these.

[Niryco]

In my opinion MR locks although meant to help facilitate a sense of growth does so in a very ineffective and almost unnoticeable manner. This is due to the clutter of numerous features early on within the game that already make the game so complex, that it is a wonder what can mastery rank offer.

 

Weapons and other items that are mastery locked rarely provide the game increased complexity, but in most cases provide increase in player power without many new features. This form of growth is hardly noticeable once players get a hold of an adequate amount of mods that it allows them to make any weapon a decent or even a good one.

 

Not to mention many of these features, like the complex modding system, companions, void tilesets with their unique setups, crafting and archwing are all unlocked early on within the game's progression without the help of mastery rank and therefore negates a large worth of the system in the first place. The only unlock that might be related would be syndicates, but then again it would take a long while before new players can begin to benefit from syndicate items greatly.

 

And yet all these complex and intricate as well as noticeable features are not part of the growth system and which also contributes to the enormous starting learning curve. Once any new player has gotten over all these features combined we immediately come to realize, there is almost nothing else this game has to offer as all of its most complex ideas are already laid bear and available the moment we enter the game and that the rest of the gameplay are bigger and faster numbers.

 

As such mastery lock doesn't provide growth, in fact it does it so ineffectively due to the how the game works that almost no growth is felt at all. As such this makes the mastery system more of a redundnant hurdle for items that differ in numbers. We are not even talking about content that provide a new style of play, or even added depth of gameplay, what mastery locks grants players right now is nothing more than higher damage caps which isn't growth, it is just inflation of everything that the game already has to offer and hence we which is nothing at all.