Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[rockscl]

He's saying that in order for the waves to damage through the rift, it has to work as an ability. However the fact that it passes through nullifier bubbles is something that abilities cannot do. It currently doesn't follow the general ability mechanics, nor does it follow general weapon mechanics as weapons cannot punch through a nullifier bubble either. His final point notes that although being in the rift is OP only the waves will do damage and not the blade, reducing Excaliburs damage output.

 

He has a point, why doesn't EB follow standard ability mechanics? If it's not going to follow ability mechanics why doesn't it follow weapon mechanics? 

 

Not sure what you mean, I have experienced no notable difference between wave damage in the rift and outside the rift, can you elaborate? By direct contact you mean the damage dealt with the blade itself? 

 

the fine gentleman there translated me properly

[DeMonkey]

the fine gentleman there translated me properly

Anytime

 

He does have a point indeed, it is a inconsistency. As for the reduced damage, not many things survive the waves from my EB, probably because it fires like a SMG with Fury & Berserker, must be why I didn't notice the damage drop from 'physical' attacks. I general dislike the way the Rift and abilities interact, but that's just my opinion, take it or leave it. Either way, good point, the inconsistency needs to be fixed. 

One other inconsistency that i dislike is the fact that the energy waves get stealth crits from radial blind. It stops you from using EB as a sword, and more as a Fluctus. The waves are the only ranged attack capable of triggering the stealth damage and I kind of think it's abit over the top considering the damage the sword can put out.

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

IMO, Exalted Blade's wave damage needs to be toned down. There's literally no reason to walk up to an enemy and melee them, when you can just shoot energy waves from a distance, with no downside. I'm thinking something like halving wave damage, making it more of a supplement to melee damage, or something to use on flying enemies in a pinch.

[StonedMakak]

I realize that at this point, we're just reiterating the same points, but I agree with above posters. Waves have a bit much "omph" to them. Decreasing the damage, changing punch through so it goes through enemies only, removing the stealth multiplier all would discourage cheesy tactics. Although, I do believe RB and EB should have some synergy. A crit and status chance increase on blinded enemies or a bleed proc perhaps? And of course a good system for chaining speedy finishers would do wonders here. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Dragazer]

I realize that at this point, we're just reiterating the same points, but I agree with above posters. Waves have a bit much "omph" to them. Decreasing the damage, changing punch through so it goes through enemies only, removing the stealth multiplier all would discourage cheesy tactics. Although, I do believe RB and EB should have some synergy. A crit and status chance increase on blinded enemies or a bleed proc perhaps? And of course a good system for chaining speedy finishers would do wonders here. 

I think the waves are in a good place right now, It already has a range limit of 40m and a slow travel speed. You still need to get up close to maximise your damage, because the waves do not contribute to the melee combo counter and finishers will be needed at higher levels to kill tough enemies. Also majority of the wave damage is slash so it will fall off later against armoured targets. 

[SomeCrackHead]

IMO, Exalted Blade's wave damage needs to be toned down. There's literally no reason to walk up to an enemy and melee them, when you can just shoot energy waves from a distance, with no downside. I'm thinking something like halving wave damage, making it more of a supplement to melee damage, or something to use on flying enemies in a pinch.

well your point is i assume, that we need to feel rewarded for going in and actually use the exalted blade as a melee weapon instead of a fluctus weapon. i agree, i would suggest falloff damage like shotguns, at a certain range, the hits wouldn't be as strong as the freshly thrown out waves

Edited June 29, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[Dragazer]

well your point is i assume, that we need to feel rewarded for going in and actually use the exalted blade as a melee weapon instead of a fluctus weapon. i agree, i would suggest falloff damage like shotguns, at a certain range, the hits wouldn't be as strong as the freshly thrown out waves

I feel that going in melee already has enough benefits, from the combo counter contribution to finishers both of which the blade waves cannot do. Sure the waves are strong at early to mid levels but at higher levels, you are going to want to utilize the combo counter and finishers to kill tougher enemies 

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dragazer

[Magneu]

"Literal copy-paste of a post I made in another Excalibur thread):

 

My only balance issue with Excalibur is the blade waves benefiting from Radial Blind's stealth multipliers, as well as having a 40 meter range; taking down level 95 Gunners solo is a piece of cake with that combo.

 

The range needs to be decreased to maybe 20 meters to emphasize his swordplay (instead of everyone crouching and spamming waves in one direction)/the damage of the waves needs to be put to 50% (again to emphasize swordplay)/they need to not benefit from Radial Blind; this combo is seriously what I see over 90% of other Excalibur's doing.

 

The waves should be a benefit, not what people build around.

 

End copy-paste

 

 I can wipe the entire front hallway at wave 20 in T4D by myself with almost no risk to myself besides Bombards, in about...5 seconds. Went solo into a T3S, stayed for 72 minutes; only left because I ran out of revives (thank you instagib, long range Lankas), and I was running 185% strength/maxed Arcane Avenger (fairly endgame build, yes). I was killing heavies with Radial Blind/wave spam/finishers in no time flat, especially compared to literally anything else in the game except a 100% status shotgun (although this can be attributed to broken armor scaling).  Maybe if the puncthrough was reduced to a single enemies worth? A Berserker stack/optional Fury still makes wave spam a problem though...I stand by my ideas above.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

My only balance issue with Excalibur is the blade waves benefiting from Radial Blind's stealth multipliers, as well as having a 40 meter range; taking down level 95 Gunners solo is a piece of cake with that combo.

 

The range needs to be decreased to maybe 20 meters to emphasize his swordplay (instead of everyone crouching and spamming waves in one direction)/the damage of the waves needs to be put to 50% (again to emphasize swordplay)/they need to not benefit from Radial Blind; this combo is seriously what I see over 90% of other Excalibur's doing.

 

The waves should be a benefit, not what people build around.

 

The benefit of going in melee only is that you literally do double the damage (blade+wave). So, I think halving the damage would be a very poor move to make. Instead SomeCrackHead's idea, of diminishing damage over distance. It wouldn't completely ruin the waves, but you could work around it.

 

well your point is i assume, that we need to feel rewarded for going in and actually use the exalted blade as a melee weapon instead of a fluctus weapon. i agree, i would suggest falloff damage like shotguns, at a certain range, the hits wouldn't be as strong as the freshly thrown out waves

Edited June 29, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[WernerShadow]

Shocking first excal was useless his new abilitys sucked then he is so op now bla bla bla seriously he is fine there is no satisfying you lot. Slash dash hits less enemys but hits more reliably win! Radial unchanged win again you got the old ult unchanged and at a 25% energy cost less win again and a new awsume ult with nice balanced damage in par with mesa and ash win again stop complaining

[SomeCrackHead]

its not complain, its feedback, and its a feedback thread, and you give feedback on how excalibur feels like on his gameplay, no1 should give them without playing excalibur on all areas in the game

[Criosaw]

Got idea from this post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/482669-excaliburs-exalted-blade-thoughts/page-3#entry5386027

I'm playing mostly as Excalibur these days, really enjoy it. I don't spam waves at all. But i encounter players who does. Way too often. What is most annoying, it's the repeating sound. Spammabilty is not a good thing in this case, such ability should require some skill (like precision) to be interesting.

Bladewaves should be produced only by advanced combos, but not default one. These bladewaves should also contribute to melee counter and use combo multipliers (maybe) to balance this change.

I guess it's a good solution. As for everything else... Excalibur is fair balanced in general, i don't have other suggestions.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Criosaw

[Aldisun]

People have probably already posted this bug, but when you have Exalted Blade active and go over an edge(one that cancels powers) you will have to recast Exalted Blade 2 more times to get it working again. When recast just once my Excalibur won't have anything equipped and can't fire or swing, after a few seconds I can cast it again and use Exalted Blade like normal.

[MichaelSD]

Woah there, that's not what I said. The synergy is OP IMHO. A slight difference.

 

Slight one.....

 

I would throw out the light twig's waves aynway. Problem solved. It would improve aesthetics and make the frame a real melee frame.

As I have already written above, the EB as a separate weapon was not the best solution. IMHO.

[SaurusRex]

A few days ago, I was helping a friend - who has been playing for a few weeks now - get some credits on seimeni. He usually has to hide behind me during the 5 waves, or else he dies fairly quickly. After playing about with mirage and various guns, I decided to switch to excalibur for a laugh, and so did he. We annihilated those 5 waves with comtemptuous ease, the both of us happily slashing around like loons. I suggested we try ODD to see how well we'd do there.

 

It should be noted at this point that neither his frame, nor his melee weapon has a potato, and he has no nightmare or corrupted mods. Despite this, we slaughtered our way to wave 20 without either of us needing to be revived, or running out of energy. No banishment, no gmag to pull in items, no hiding where the infested coudn't reach us, no crowd control, no snowglobe, no anitmatter priming: just an endless barrage of death. The infested never stood a chance.

 

I feel anyone picking excalibur as a starter is going to be in for a shock when they try out any other frames.

Edited June 30, 2015 by SaurusRex

[Knightmare047]

I know I might get some flak for this, but I personally think that his EB has been made abit too powerful since the update last week. The problem mainly lies with his Exalted Blade's blade waves. Ok, yeah I know that when he first came out, it was weak as heck and tickles high level enemies, but now it simply slaughters everything in its path for 40 metres. Plus the addition of the punch through as well as being able to benefit from stealth multipliers now, it becomes a torrent of death whenever Excalibur casts Radial Blind before slashing. I think the blade waves need to either have its damage toned down abit but increasing the velocity of the waves(the slow waves sort of promote spamming the waves, which can lead to easily creating a torrent of death), or reduce the wave's range from 40m to somewhere around 20m. This is just my opinion however. Don't get me wrong though, Excalibur has been my favorite frame since I started playing back in U14. I like him alot.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Knightmare047

[StonedMakak]

Slight one.....

 

I would throw out the light twig's waves aynway. Problem solved. It would improve aesthetics and make the frame a real melee frame.

As I have already written above, the EB as a separate weapon was not the best solution. IMHO.

 

Well, if we're going a little drastic, this is how I would do it - remove waves completely along with the twig, as you say, and instead add a pure energy extension to the melee weapon, increasing it's range by X in addition the the present bonuses of EB. The energy extension would inflict less damage that the material weapon, but also contribute to melee counter, inflict status procs etc. The point is to give you range so you can easily keep your combo going. The extension can also go through obstacles. 

 

SD gets a energy cost reduction while in EB and increases combo counter by 4 (augment needs to be redesigned), but hits only one enemy, becoming a mobility tool for initiating melee slaughter. The combo counter itself has double the duration during EB.

 

Radial blind becomes instant cast, as suggested earlier in the thread, with the flash emanating from Excal himself. RJ's damage scales of combo counter (also suggested a couple pages back). 

 

Combos produce different effects - one that results in AoE knockdown around Excal, one that makes him spin around for AoE damage etc. Depending on the weapon you use, EB gives different bonuses - swords are super fast, heavy weapons even greater reach with the extension etc.

 

Ain't gonna happen, but there it is. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by tisdfogg

[ShawnV2]

I know I might get some flak for this, but I personally think that his EB has been made abit too powerful since the update last week. The problem mainly lies with his Exalted Blade's blade waves. Ok, yeah I know that when he first came out, it was weak as heck and tickles high level enemies, but now it simply slaughters everything in its path for 40 metres. Plus the addition of the punch through as well as being able to benefit from stealth multipliers now, it becomes a torrent of death whenever Excalibur casts Radial Blind before slashing. I think the blade waves need to either have its damage toned down abit but increasing the velocity of the waves(the slow waves sort of promote spamming the waves, which can lead to easily creating a torrent of death), or reduce the wave's range from 40m to somewhere around 20m. This is just my opinion however. Don't get me wrong though, Excalibur has been my favorite frame since I started playing back in U14. I like him alot.

 

So it was too weak before and now it's too strong? A day after excal came out everyone complained it was too weak, now apparently its too strong to the point of people wanting nerfs. Will you people ever be satisfied? You guys are really sucking the fun out of excal for me.

 

Although i guess this is a feedback thread ...

Edited July 1, 2015 by ShawnV2

[DeMonkey]

Too week, too strong jesus people make up your minds..

 

 

So it was too weak before and now it's too strong? A day after excal came out everyone complained it was too weak, now apparently its too strong to the point of people wanting nerfs. Will you people ever be satisfied? You guys are really sucking the fun out of excal for me.

Before it couldn't kill anything, now it kills everything to the point where the sword itself is useless, tell me how it's wrong for us to ask for tweaks?

[ShawnV2]

Before it couldn't kill anything, now it kills everything to the point where the sword itself is useless, tell me how it's wrong for us to ask for tweaks?

 

You guys will never be satisfied.

[Dragazer]

Before it couldn't kill anything, now it kills everything to the point where the sword itself is useless, tell me how it's wrong for us to ask for tweaks?

As I stated many times before, the sword itself is not useless although the waves deal the same base damage at a longer range, they don't scale as great as actually meleeing, due to its lack of contribution to the combo counter and obvious inability to perform finishers at long range. At higher levels where enemies don't simply die to a few waves hits, then at that point going up close truly shines with the increase damage from the melee combo counter and armour ignoring finishers.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Dragazer

[Rakosta_Kai]

Before it couldn't kill anything, now it kills everything to the point where the sword itself is useless, tell me how it's wrong for us to ask for tweaks?

 

I don't think tweaks are bad... So long as DE merely tweaks.

 

I haven't used Exalted Blade too much since the last change and haven't faced off against anything too high level when I have, so I don't know if it's gotten necessarily OP since the last tweak to it.

 

I have seen others use it and think that the air blades flowing through corners, and columns to hit stuff on the other side of them is probably unintended though.

[Knightmare047]

So it was too weak before and now it's too strong? A day after excal came out everyone complained it was too weak, now apparently its too strong to the point of people wanting nerfs. Will you people ever be satisfied? You guys are really sucking the fun out of excal for me.

 

Although i guess this is a feedback thread ...

This is just my own opinion and feedback on him as an Excal player. I just believe that a few tweaks to his blade waves may be needed to balance Exalted Blade abit. I am actually quite satisfied the changes done to him for the most part and enjoy him. He's much, much more versatile and powerful than from what he was before. And if he's not gonna receive any nerfs or anything, that's fine by me.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Knightmare047

[Gintoki-Zero]

i want to customize the lenght of my lightsaber........

 

so 

 

-short has like a dagger moveset

 

-mid usual EB 

 

-LONGER heavy blade feel?

[Kaiservadin]

Exalted Blade is still OP in PVP reguardless even if its damage is nerf.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Kaiservadin