Excalibur Rework : Press "e" To Win

[blazinvire]

What IS this ability to people? Really?

Is it an alternate weapon you're supposed to use instead of the melee weapon you brought with you?

Is it a method to make melee combat viable in the current enemy scaling situation?

Or is it an Overdrive ability where you flip the kill switch?

 

I'm not even entirely sure what it is myself, but from a design standpoint it seems like it should be an Overdrive; it shouldn't replace melee nor enable it -those features rely on the enemy scaling and other such things.

The ability itself just seems to be a replacer, it's more active and dynamic which is great, but it's not a buff like Vex Armour, it's a weapon mode where you're stuck using a fancy sword.

 

If it's supposed to be an Overdrive, why doesn't it FEEL like one?  Hell, maybe it does need a buff, amp up the damage and amp up the energy drain, integrate it into the game play rather than have it replace half of it X.X

[RafaelFuchs]

What IS this ability to people? Really?

Is it an alternate weapon you're supposed to use instead of the melee weapon you brought with you?

Is it a method to make melee combat viable in the current enemy scaling situation?

Or is it an Overdrive ability where you flip the kill switch?

 

I'm not even entirely sure what it is myself, but from a design standpoint it seems like it should be an Overdrive; it shouldn't replace melee nor enable it -those features rely on the enemy scaling and other such things.

The ability itself just seems to be a replacer, it's more active and dynamic which is great, but it's not a buff like Vex Armour, it's a weapon mode where you're stuck using a fancy sword.

 

If it's supposed to be an Overdrive, why doesn't it FEEL like one?  Hell, maybe it does need a buff, amp up the damage and amp up the energy drain, integrate it into the game play rather than have it replace half of it X.X

i do agree, it's a replacement for your equipped melee weapon. it does feel like an overdrive too though. 250 base damage (88.33~ I, P & S) before mods that is fully affected by all melee weapon equipped mods. it's quite powerful compared to any melee weapon you can normally use, but it lacks variety. however, that can be fixed later down the road by giving alternate stances and weapons that are used by that ability. how would they do that? no idea. there are many ways they could, but excalibur is the sword frame. dual swords, one-handed swords and nikanas are what he specializes in. i wouldn't expect a hammer or whip to ever be used while channeling EB, nor do i think they should ever add them to it; if they ever did add new weapons to it, they should be those 3 weapon types exclusively.  

[blazinvire]

It's the 'replacing' aspect that kind of bothers me; abilities are powerful, but they've never replaced a certain aspect of the game before, more they've simply 'added' to existing gameplay.

Exalted Blade should do something different from melee -and I'm not talking about the weird &#! anime blade waves.

Peacemaker for example -another ability that needs some tweakage X.X- has the aimbot feature, regardless of how amazing our aim is, we pale in comparison to an aimbot; we pay for it with horrible mobility so it can't effectively replace regular gunplay, the most it might replace is the other AoE abilities frames have.

[RafaelFuchs]

It's the 'replacing' aspect that kind of bothers me; abilities are powerful, but they've never replaced a certain aspect of the game before, more they've simply 'added' to existing gameplay.

Exalted Blade should do something different from melee -and I'm not talking about the weird ! anime blade waves.

Peacemaker for example -another ability that needs some tweakage X.X- has the aimbot feature, regardless of how amazing our aim is, we pale in comparison to an aimbot; we pay for it with horrible mobility so it can't effectively replace regular gunplay, the most it might replace is the other AoE abilities frames have.

this is where i have to disagree with you. excalibur is a melee based frame. he is centered around it and having a melee weapon ability just makes it more obvious. saryn and volt are melee supplementing frames. they add to it and make your existing melee better. 

 

mesa though, i have no opinion on. i can't think of anything to do to her without totally dropping peacemaker for something else. i just don't like her #4 and i don't use mesa enough to have a solid opinion on her. 

[blazinvire]

Melee weapon ability is fine, but Exalted Blade is just Melee with some bells and whistles.  If they wanted to simply make his melee better, they'd have something like Contagion on Saryn or Vex Armor on Chroma, and it certainly wouldn't be an ultimate.

 

Why doesn't Exalted Blade do something other melee frames can't, besides hit harder?  I mean, if it's the blade waves, why doesn't it focus more on the blade waves?  Or if it's the radial blind spam, why don't they develop that a bit more?

The parry is good, because people can't block and attack at the same time, and the overall theory behind Exalted Blade is excellent, but it just doesn't quite feel like an 'ability'.

It's almost like glorified Channeling.

 

Why not some a little bit out there and throw some Archwing melee-style stuff in there, where melee attacks can close the distance between foes, or bizarre versions of mini-slash dashes where you zip passed them and leave a slice through them.

Something we can't do normally that doesn't just have a bigger number slapped on it.

[RafaelFuchs]

Melee weapon ability is fine, but Exalted Blade is just Melee with some bells and whistles.  If they wanted to simply make his melee better, they'd have something like Contagion on Saryn or Vex Armor on Chroma, and it certainly wouldn't be an ultimate.

 

Why doesn't Exalted Blade do something other melee frames can't, besides hit harder?  I mean, if it's the blade waves, why doesn't it focus more on the blade waves?  Or if it's the radial blind spam, why don't they develop that a bit more?

The parry is good, because people can't block and attack at the same time, and the overall theory behind Exalted Blade is excellent, but it just doesn't quite feel like an 'ability'.

It's almost like glorified Channeling.

 

Why not some a little bit out there and throw some Archwing melee-style stuff in there, where melee attacks can close the distance between foes, or bizarre versions of mini-slash dashes where you zip passed them and leave a slice through them.

Something we can't do normally that doesn't just have a bigger number slapped on it.

 

i agree that it can be made even more specialized than it currently is, but it's a huge step forward from the melee frame that couldn't melee without quickly dying. there are a lot of things they could do, but at the end of the day, damage is everything in this game. 

[blazinvire]

It's just I'd rather not encourage this sort of idea of designing abilities to fix things that aren't abilities; Exalted Blade appears to be designed to 'enable melee' for Excalibur, when such a thing was actually the fault of the enemy scaling.

 

Enemy scaling isn't going to be fixed overnight, but abilities like these sort of perpetuate the problem, and make it harder to fix further down the line.

So yeah, the ideal version of EB would probably not be as strong as the current setup, but it would make it easier when they fixed the enemies, so that the ability can resume being awesome then.

Either small sacrifices now, or it's going to take a very, very long time for them to tweak all the damage and gameplay into something agreeable.

[WernerShadow]

Dear [DE],

I've played Warframe now more than a year and I've "mained" Excalibur for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons is I felt he was one of the more balanced frames in the game (ignoring Radial Blind abuse). More specifically, his "ultimate" Radial Javelin required line of sight and could not be spammed effectively requiring players to be strategic, often using it after Super Jump for synergy.

Radial abuse? So sorry you dont know how to use skills any CC ability gets as you put it abused at high end game play and for good reason as every enemy will almost guaranteed 1 shot you that is why the nubs such as your self never play there. Guns get you only so far skills make the diffrence

Fast forward to the current rework (and after the dark days of Radial Javelin spam) with a new "ultimate" - Exalted Blade. In the final form after some hotfixes there exists some puzzling decisions which skews balance into "Overpowered" territory.

- Exalted Blade waves go through solid objects. I can understand if a certain amount of Punch Through is inherent in the ability when hitting enemies. But as it is you can spam waves into closed doors and through floors to decimate enemies which haven't even entered line of sight.

- Exalted Blade procs Syndicate mods despite not equipping the melee weapon. It's understandable if the 100% damage is added but why is the powerful AOE proc occurring when this is not the case when using melee with a Primary equipped?

- Exalted Blade waves damage Nullifier shields. The Nullifier was introduced I would assume to counter ability spam and is usually one of the few enemies that requires players to adapt on the fly. How is it then that the waves are not negated by the shield like every other ability?

- Exalted Blade can be used indefinitely. With the use of a Corrupted Mod (the source of so many balance issues) it's very easy to keep Exalted Blade up and since it's so utterly effective there is little cause *not* to have it out 24/7.

I am a huge proponent for balance from the start especially with the current meta which does not bare repeating here. Please consider some of the above points in current and future frame reworks.

*DISCLAIMER* While I welcome any feedback from players the above was addressed to [DE] on the small chance it might be read. Having been in the forums long enough I know that any talk of balance/retuning/nerfing will be met with vocal and immediate disapproval.

[StonedMakak]

If there was one thing I could tweak in EB it would be the punch-through, so that it activates after hitting an enemy and the wave picks up speed per enemy hit. That way attacking walls in hope that things on the other side die would not be a thing, unless there is an enemy between you and that wall. Otherwise the skill is mostly fine.

Edited July 2, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Jinryusai]

Punchthrough isn't really that big a deal, anyway...

[Faulcun]

So ive noticed that some people are having trouble in high levels with EB because they are sitting around trying to kill everything with air waves.

 

His augments make him ridiculous. Instant damage multiplier. He is more than capable of blowing past 40 min with a solid melee build. You just cant be scared to get your hands dirty.

 

But that requires some kind of skill so......

Edited July 2, 2015 by Faulcun

[Pro3Display]

so as i was saying on the forums somewhere:

you'll be balancing guns and frames for 50 years if there are mobs that don't give a single flock

as long as there are any op weapons or abilities there is always a heavy gunner of 600lvl to say "nope, not gonna happen... now u die"

that's why this op/not-op argueing is invalid on all levels

[Crewell]

- Exalted Blade waves go through solid objects.  I can understand if a certain amount of Punch Through is inherent in the ability when hitting enemies.  But as it is you can spam waves into closed doors and through floors to decimate enemies which haven't even entered line of sight. 

I agree. Energy waves should not go through objects. There are a lot of powers that ignore barriers that shouldn't.

 

- Exalted Blade procs Syndicate mods despite not equipping the melee weapon.  It's understandable if the 100% damage is added but why is the powerful AOE proc occurring when this is not the case when using melee with a Primary equipped? 

I can't argue with this. Removing this happening wouldn't overly nerf Exalted Blade. I think many people would still use one of the 100% melee damage mods for that boost.

 

- Exalted Blade waves damage Nullifier shields.  The Nullifier was introduced I would assume to counter ability spam and is usually one of the few enemies that requires players to adapt on the fly.  How is it then that the waves are not negated by the shield like every other ability?

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. Perhaps the comprimise is Exalted Blade waves bust down Nullifier shields similar to other raanged weapons.

 

- Exalted Blade can be used indefinitely.  With the use of a Corrupted Mod (the source of so many balance issues) it's very easy to keep Exalted Blade up and since it's so utterly effective there is little cause *not* to have it out 24/7. 

To build for that efficiecy they are losing almost all duration on Radial Blind. If a player wants to max there build ro stay in Exalted Blade mode, that should be there choice. I personally wish they would have left the power more like Hysteria in that it was just a duration after activation, but also with the ability to press 4 to cancel it early. DE chose to make it a toggle though.

[BladeAsh]

Leave the frame as it is... at least he`s fun now.

[Marthrym]

E. Blade is just like any other power. Sure, at low levels you tear through basically anything and everything that gets in your way. But once you reach higher levels, damage drops even with the ability scaling off mods. Because no matter what, the devs still refuse to understand that flat damage values can't work if the enemy uses percentages to boost its stats with every level, with a curve that gets more and more vertical the higher you go.

 

I wish E. Blade was OP, I really do. Thing is, it's really not.

 

The waves are made of energy, so yeah, they go through stuff. Considering enemies spend their time hiding behind stuff while still having Godly accuracy without even looking at you, it's kinda necessary. You wouldn't like having to walk all the way to every enemy's face.

 

Why wouldn't it proc syndicate effects? We can finally get some use out of it! Also, "powerful" AOE? Are you for real?^^'

 

The blade uses physical base damage. Mostly slash, with a bit of impact and puncture. Since it's physical damage, it's only logical it affects the cheapest, lamest mechanic in the game. We need more abilities like that, the bubble protects the units inside, doesn't mean the bubble itself should be completely invulnerable to abilities. Like I said, cheap and lame mechanic.

 

So what if you can use it indefinitely? It requires to mod for it. It's no different from "Forever BSing Ash" for instance. Mod properly, you can spend your time spamming 4 forever with him too. Same for other frames.

 

 

I understand that playing with a guy that only uses E. Blade is frustrating if you want to kill lots of enemies yourself, just like it's a pain in the @ss to play with the forementioned Ash players who press one button for the entire mission, but it's a coop game. I find that frustrating too sometimes. Often even. I just don't let it cloud my judgment.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Marthrym

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Excal finally looks fun. Why do you hate fun?

[TaylorsContraction]

While I agree that infinite punch through is kind of strong let me educate everyone why it was added.

If you ever used Excalibur and EB you will then have noticed the slash is pretty wide, wide enough in fact to clip the ground most of the time. With limited punch through every time a wave hit the ground it would disappear this making the ability awkward to use. You'd have to aim up all the time to avoid hitting the ground and would not be able to hit targets further away as the slash would simply go over them. I think it's fine, maybe we can reduce the overall travel distance as a balancing factor but I personally think the ability is balanced. It's not easy more in harder missions, and easy missions are easy more for all Warframe when fully decked out.

[Vasault]

wait a min did you said "excalibur was balanced"? AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, i also mained him for many years, and still my main character, but saying he was balanced?? come on, and by the way, NO, he is not op right now, he's as good as he should have been, this was a very needed rework in my opinion

[Rayden_Tenno]

BREAKING NEWS: RANK 30 TENNO FULLY DECKED OUT IN MODS DO REALLY WELL IN LOW LEVEL CONTENT. MORE AT 11!!

lately with so many "nerf excal" topics im starting to think that there is a big part of the community who actually isnt playing warframe or doesn't know how to play it.

[Rayden_Tenno]

 

 

 

Sheesh, never suggest a nerf to a frame you barely even played "EB was a good move" nice joke there, tell me more about your experiences playing excal please.

 

LOL seriously? That guys is a troll. So many people complaining about excal just cuz they are playing with people that can play far better than them. "That kid iz cuuler dan me! Nerf im!"

Edited July 2, 2015 by Rayden_Tenno

[ShawnV2]

Excalibur will be the new synoid gammacor. Thank you.

[CTanGod]

And using other frames that spam 4 or other abilities don't need nerf ? Atleast Excalibur doesn't instagib the entire room the moment you press 4, you gotta work to do that.

 

EDIT Forgot to mention that EVERY projectile ability CAN and WILL do damage to Nullifier Shields, just try it with Fireball

Edited July 2, 2015 by CTanGod

[BrazilianJoe]

My opinion is that the only change it needs is to maybe have the waves reduce damage by 50% for every enemy passed through (or less if power strength). That, or do 100% damage up to 10 meters and have faloff to 50% damage strength on maximum distance.

Edited July 2, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[Marthrym]

Oh and just another thing I'd like to point out, concerning the parrying. It doesn't stop procs with E. Blade either. So you can easily die just from bleeding, don't go retard and think you're golden just by standing back to a wall with enemies facing you, check you status often, just in case, would be silly to go down because of that.^^'

Apparently it's perfectly logic to someone at DE that stopping a projectile from hitting you still will make you somehow bleed. DE's logic at work! Will never cease to surprise me... and not the good kind of surprise. Space magic!

Edited July 2, 2015 by Marthrym

[S7ORM]

 

- Exalted Blade waves go through solid objects.  I can understand if a certain amount of Punch Through is inherent in the ability when hitting enemies.  But as it is you can spam waves into closed doors and through floors to decimate enemies which haven't even entered line of sight. 

 

- Exalted Blade procs Syndicate mods despite not equipping the melee weapon.  It's understandable if the 100% damage is added but why is the powerful AOE proc occurring when this is not the case when using melee with a Primary equipped? 

 

- Exalted Blade waves damage Nullifier shields.  The Nullifier was introduced I would assume to counter ability spam and is usually one of the few enemies that requires players to adapt on the fly.  How is it then that the waves are not negated by the shield like every other ability?

These three things should be fixed.

- Punch Through should have a smaller limit (say, 5m, which is twice that of the best punch through mods).

- Syndicate PROCS should not happen.

- Excal should be forced to leave his ability to deal with Nullifiers -- requiring more diverse play.

 

 

While I agree that infinite punch through is kind of strong let me educate everyone why it was added.

If you ever used Excalibur and EB you will then have noticed the slash is pretty wide, wide enough in fact to clip the ground most of the time. With limited punch through every time a wave hit the ground it would disappear this making the ability awkward to use. You'd have to aim up all the time to avoid hitting the ground and would not be able to hit targets further away as the slash would simply go over them. I think it's fine, maybe we can reduce the overall travel distance as a balancing factor but I personally think the ability is balanced. It's not easy more in harder missions, and easy missions are easy more for all Warframe when fully decked out.

Actually, this is a good point.

Edited July 2, 2015 by S7ORM