My Genuine Feeling On Whats Wrong With This Game (Energy Esage)

[Jin_Kazama]

I feel as though the main issue with this game is in fact how easy it is to kill everything with actual castable skills.

Considering that we can raise efficiency to 75% so easily with the trade-off being power duration. many many frames can clear rooms by simply pressing 4 a few times, and regain back said energy by a simple energy orb.

This( in my opinion ) has alone, made this game feel incredibly easy to play. No matter how strong you make the enemies, how smart you make them, and no matter how many nulifiers you throw into the map, it wont stop the sheer carnage that 2-4 frames can cause by having this ease of kills.

It has even made certain frames seem very much higher tier than other frames. for example having a Nova that can proc an instant 200% extra damage debuff to everyone around for only 25 energy, or having an excalibur almost permanently in his 4 stance, Or even furthermore a mag that can spam Pull to everyone in the vicinity over and over again for 1/4 the cost of a single orb.
Imagine a banshee with max efficiency and range with max energy who presses 4. She has ALL on feet units locked down in stagger for a considerably and hilariously long time. 

I kind of wish efficiency wasnt a thing in this game, and if it was, i wish that it did something worse as a result of having it

Or another solution would be cooldowns.

Having a cooldown of maybe 20 seconds or more depending on the forth abilities of warframes would make them way more of an actual Finisher attack, and allow us to plan on how we use them much better. 

You wouldnt have people with auto clickers just spending a whole game pressing 4 over and over again whilst the trinity constantly gives them energy. They would actually have to plan when to use it, and go and kill some stuff.

Maybe you could even mix BOTH the ideas haha, have cooldowns, and efficiency mods lessen the cost but slightly raise the timer xD

(bring on the hate)

Edited July 5, 2015 by Jin_Kazama

[Jamescell]

Get rid of energy. Replace it with cool downs. Remove efficiency mods altogether. Boom. Much easier to balance things.

[Davoodoo]

You know whats best.

 

I have loki with duration build.

I reached 26s duration on invisbility.

It costs me 12 energy to cast yet i regen 15 energy at its duration by having energy siphon at me.

 

Meaning i can stay in invisbility permamently, ill never run out of energy.

 

You know whats better though??

@(*()$ half of abilities can do that.

[Nep_Blanc]

You know whats best.

 

I have loki with duration build.

I reached 26s duration on invisbility.

It costs me 12 energy to cast yet i regen 15 energy at its duration by having energy siphon at me.

 

Meaning i can stay in invisbility permamently, ill never run out of energy.

 

You know whats better though??

@(*()$ half of abilities can do that.

thats a totally great pro build is that op?

For a loki it is a means of survival nothing more.

I think that build combined with skills deserves to be that op.

also you will die lategame so we are not OP at all, Energy nerfs are done by leeches and parasites, we run out of energy anyways if the game wants it or not.

 

Get rid of energy. Replace it with cool downs. Remove efficiency mods altogether. Boom. Much easier to balance things.

Really this balances nothing what is your proof this will work?

I think it makes this game even more uninteresting as it already is with all the farming and time taking stuff it has.

 

 

I hope this thread gets closed soon this is getting madness and nothing more

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

[Oranji]

They already said NO to ability cooldowns I believe.

[Davoodoo]

thats a totally great pro build is that op?

For a loki it is a means of survival nothing more.

I think that build combined with skills deserves to be that op.

also you will die lategame so we are not OP at all, Energy nerfs are done by leeches and parasites, we run out of energy anyways if the game wants it or not.

Yes it is. Op to the point of being broken.

No amount of time/effort/money spent should make me impossible to be hit. Game which cant be lost losses its point.

 

And i wont die at endgame, how do i know?? because i laughed at 150lvl enemies, i laughed at 300lvl enemies, i would probably laugh at 9999lvl if game didnt crash past certain wave and i would be playing at toilet.

Whatever enemy comes at squad of tenno, theyll be floating in bastille, slowed to 10% of their normal speed by mprime, while being disarmed with radiation proc from loki.

[Anatolius]

But DE wants you to use your powers. Even they said "no cool downs." Because it didn't work.

This game is too fast pace to have long cooldowns on it and if someone wants to mod for one ability let them.

For all we know, with star chart 2.0 and quests, who knows what will happen to all the major farmibg spots as we know it

[Easymac]

A) Theres about 1000000 other topics like this. Enough of this energy spam crying.

B)Your argument for nulifiers and enemy levels is actually invalid. There was a hijack event with like 10 nulifiers every 50 meters, and high level to 1-2 hit you, so the only way to attempt to have a chance was have 1-2 frosts throw down globes the whole way, and have nyx sit on top, with trinity. Second event was a Melee only even against some pretty high levels. you "could" use skills, but you'd die in a second by level 90 bombardars or what ever

C) if the game is to easy for you, go play solo.
The game is fine as is. stop complaning.

even without skill maximization, you still have
A) loki invis
B)rhino armor
C)trin invince.

If you add cooldowns, all I have to do is run into a roomm, spam abilities, then run out and hide for 20 seconds and do it again. so that solves nothing.

we're suposed to be OP ninjas.
Thats the point of the game.
take off vitality, and do nightmare missions. then complain how ez it is.

[Stratego89]

Get rid of energy. Replace it with cool downs. Remove efficiency mods altogether. Boom. Much easier to balance things.

1. They tried cooldowns once. It didn't go well. 2. DE Scott: "No Cooldowns!". :D

[----Fenrir----]

You know whats best.

 

I have loki with duration build.

I reached 26s duration on invisbility.

It costs me 12 energy to cast yet i regen 15 energy at its duration by having energy siphon at me.

 

Meaning i can stay in invisbility permamently, ill never run out of energy.

 

You know whats better though??

@(*()$ half of abilities can do that.

 

Yes, but you need that for endgame content to make Loki playable for anything but hiding under mamas shirt (frost globe). His invisibility is his only protection because once enemy levels go past 40 hes basically a one-shot for everything.

 

There are other frames as well that can only survive by constant ability usage. Mirage for example needs hall of mirrors as much as Loki invisibility to survive. Excalibur either need to run EB or spam radial blind once you go past 30 minutes in tower survival in order to not go down instantly.

 

Limit energy or introduce cooldowns and high level gameplay will center even more around camping in some corner or sewer and never moving. Because what else for example is a Loki that can not stay invisible anymore to do after it gets to the point that everything can one-shot him?

Edited July 4, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[Jin_Kazama]

First off, saying

"Well at the very end of the game when you have everything and your fighting level 999999999 enemies you cant spam abilities cause you'll die"
 

Is a really bad thing to actually say, mainly because all thats saying is that the only time you dont have to spam abilities to kill everything in the room is when the game reaches such a difficulty of scaling that it becomes impossible to do so. And basing the whole of the game on that logic is flawed as faw-
 

In regards to EasyMac's comment about |) if the game is to easy for you, go play solo.) -

The funny thing is my point still stands, say if i ran into an ODD solo with the right warframe and the right build, i could spam my way to a really decent level simply by spamming 4. (Like miasma for example)(or by spamming vortexes and shooting a single dread into the ball)
I just think that since the game has SOO many weapons and SOO many warframes now, that their abilities should actually be utilised. and not simply just for the "Well its there if you feel like it" value after you reach a certain part in the game.

The games hella fun, ive got like almost 3K steam hours on it, so all of this is just my opinion.

Notice that all of the newest enemies that DE introduce, are Specifically designed to combat ability spam? The new stealth grineer, and the nulifier corpus? They are literally the only time that some people even decide to use their primary weapon xD and thats only because they have to.
XP farming thats happening now, and has always been a problem within the last half a year, how did it happen? Because people can literally go hours into defences/interceptions just pressing 4 and 2.

May i refer to Warframes "By the number" graph for January to Febuary? - Out of every single power in this game, the 5 most used abilities by a HUGE margin, are skills that are spammed constantly.

they even said themselves that "when players find something that works, they use the hell out of it."

 

Just saying as GENERAL FEEDBACK as a player, that personally, the game for me is too much about efficiently killing rooms by spamming abilities

Edited July 4, 2015 by Jin_Kazama

[Jin_Kazama]

Yes, but you need that for endgame content to make Loki playable for anything but hiding under mamas shirt (frost globe). His invisibility is his only protection because once enemy levels go past 40 hes basically a one-shot for everything.

 

There are other frames as well that can only survive by constant ability usage. Mirage for example needs hall of mirrors as much as Loki invisibility to survive. Excalibur either need to run EB or spam radial blind once you go past 30 minutes in tower survival in order to not go down instantly.

 

Limit energy or introduce cooldowns and high level gameplay will center even more around camping in some corner or sewer and never moving. Because what else for example is a Loki that can not stay invisible anymore to do after it gets to the point that everything can one-shot him?

 

The thing is, my idea was based around 4th abilities, Not cooldowns of everything, that'd be insane. I just think that abilities that are designed to be Finisher abilities should not be able to be used as easily as 1st abilities

Edited July 4, 2015 by Jin_Kazama

[Nep_Blanc]

A) Theres about 1000000 other topics like this. Enough of this energy spam crying.

B)Your argument for nulifiers and enemy levels is actually invalid. There was a hijack event with like 10 nulifiers every 50 meters, and high level to 1-2 hit you, so the only way to attempt to have a chance was have 1-2 frosts throw down globes the whole way, and have nyx sit on top, with trinity. Second event was a Melee only even against some pretty high levels. you "could" use skills, but you'd die in a second by level 90 bombardars or what ever

C) if the game is to easy for you, go play solo.

The game is fine as is. stop complaning.

even without skill maximization, you still have

A) loki invis

B)rhino armor

C)trin invince.

If you add cooldowns, all I have to do is run into a roomm, spam abilities, then run out and hide for 20 seconds and do it again. so that solves nothing.

we're suposed to be OP ninjas.

Thats the point of the game.

take off vitality, and do nightmare missions. then complain how ez it is.

This Guy:P

I certainly agree make a challenge yourself and do a dragon key in your inventory or gear, get out all mods out of your warframe and see how long you like this game, The point of us being OP till a certain point is that we are as a matter of fact Space ninjas.

 

Yes it is. Op to the point of being broken.

No amount of time/effort/money spent should make me impossible to be hit. Game which cant be lost losses its point.

 

And i wont die at endgame, how do i know?? because i laughed at 150lvl enemies, i laughed at 300lvl enemies, i would probably laugh at 9999lvl if game didnt crash past certain wave and i would be playing at toilet.

Whatever enemy comes at squad of tenno, theyll be floating in bastille, slowed to 10% of their normal speed by mprime, while being disarmed with radiation proc from loki.

Its totally not broken and I loughed also at lvl 300 enemies but not that I ever made it long before I had to be ressed.

and the kemping is a problem but leave those people its a ez way to get your stuffs and it is skilless but let them I don't judge them DE will do something about it its just poor game design nothing more.

 

Yes, but you need that for endgame content to make Loki playable for anything but hiding under mamas shirt (frost globe). His invisibility is his only protection because once enemy levels go past 40 hes basically a one-shot for everything.

 

There are other frames as well that can only survive by constant ability usage. Mirage for example needs hall of mirrors as much as Loki invisibility to survive. Excalibur either need to run EB or spam radial blind once you go past 30 minutes in tower survival in order to not go down instantly.

 

Limit energy or introduce cooldowns and high level gameplay will center even more around camping in some corner or sewer and never moving. Because what else for example is a Loki that can not stay invisible anymore to do after it gets to the point that everything can one-shot him?

So true I had the same with loki and those Cheap *@##$ nullifiers are a way too op countermeasure but for this point great against ability spammers.

 

First off, saying

"Well at the very end of the game when you have everything and your fighting level 999999999 enemies you cant spam abilities cause you'll die"

 

Is a really bad thing to actually say, mainly because all thats saying is that the only time you dont have to spam abilities to kill everything in the room is when the game reaches such a difficulty of scaling that it becomes impossible to do so. And basing the whole of the game on that logic is flawed as faw-

 

In regards to EasyMac's comment about |) if the game is to easy for you, go play solo.) -

The funny thing is my point still stands, say if i ran into an ODD solo with the right warframe and the right build, i could spam my way to a really decent level simply by spamming 4. (Like miasma for example)(or by spamming vortexes and shooting a single dread into the ball)

I just think that since the game has SOO many weapons and SOO many warframes now, that their abilities should actually be utilised. and not simply just for the "Well its there if you feel like it" value after you reach a certain part in the game.

The games hella fun, ive got like almost 3K steam hours on it, so all of this is just my opinion.

Notice that all of the newest enemies that DE introduce, are Specifically designed to combat ability spam? The new stealth grineer, and the nulifier corpus? They are literally the only time that some people even decide to use their primary weapon xD and thats only because they have to.

XP farming thats happening now, and has always been a problem within the last half a year, how did it happen? Because people can literally go hours into defences/interceptions just pressing 4 and 2.

May i refer to Warframes "By the number" graph for January to Febuary? - Out of every single power in this game, the 5 most used abilities by a HUGE margin, are skills that are spammed constantly.

they even said themselves that "when players find something that works, they use the hell out of it."

 

Just saying as GENERAL FEEDBACK as a player, that personally, the game for me is too much about efficiently killing rooms by spamming abilities

Players always crave this and you point out the most spammable abilities there are. I Know this as a matter of fact, and if you agree with the endless grind of warframe you are crazy and destroy the game with its own greedyness.

Thing is people want to farm as efficient as possible, I agree its efficient and time saving.

The Grind for stuffs is already pretty hard to do so please do not make it even harder.

You will make players get fed up and leave even before you know it.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

Edited July 4, 2015 by TheRoaringLion

[EinheriarJudith]

Players always crave this and you point out the most spammable abilities there are. I Know this as a matter of fact, and if you agree with the endless grind of warframe you are crazy and destroy the game with its own greedyness.

Thing is people want to farm as efficient as possible, I agree its efficient and time saving.

The Grind for stuffs is already pretty hard to do so please do not make it even harder.

You will make players get fed up and leave even before you know it.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

if you think warframe is grindy then you obviously dont play korean MMORPG games. this is a parkour third person shooter not a shooting gallery where you just stand in one place and take potshots. "laziness will find the path of least resistance 100% of the time" we as players have been dealing with RNG for far longer than you were possibly even born it is in almost every game that has loot drops and that has been the truth for many years.

 

Ex: Nintendo(The Legend of Zelda) you did not know wether or not you were gonna get a rupie or a heart if you killed an enemy because of? you guessed it RNG.

Edited July 4, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Jin_Kazama]

 

 

Players always crave this and you point out the most spammable abilities there are. I Know this as a matter of fact, and if you agree with the endless grind of warframe you are crazy and destroy the game with its own greedyness.

Thing is people want to farm as efficient as possible, I agree its efficient and time saving.

The Grind for stuffs is already pretty hard to do so please do not make it even harder.

You will make players get fed up and leave even before you know it.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

 

You do realise that the only reason that you think the Grind is "Hard" is simply because of low RNG drop chances.  The grind is absolutely not hard in this game when you can wipe out enemies and reset once it becomes ridiculous an hour into missions.

Its just terribly time consuming. 

[Nep_Blanc]

You do realise that the only reason that you think the Grind is "Hard" is simply because of low RNG drop chances.  The grind is absolutely not hard in this game when you can wipe out enemies and reset once it becomes ridiculous an hour into missions.

Its just terribly time consuming. 

yes that is the point so why the Gmag nerf anyways this game is about farming so why nerf it?

also energy wise this game is fine and frames are balanced as they are.

 

I hope you realise this with a 60min+ TIV survival.

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

[BlackCoMerc]

Get rid of energy. Replace it with cool downs. Remove efficiency mods altogether. Boom. Much easier to balance things.

 

Oh god no. Not this. Never this. Cooldowns are ridiculous. They remove any sense of tactics or strategy and leave you staring at a cool down counter as opposed to the action on the screen. 

 

No. Not cool downs. I for one am out the moment that happens.

[BlackCoMerc]

First off, saying

"Well at the very end of the game when you have everything and your fighting level 999999999 enemies you cant spam abilities cause you'll die"

 

Is a really bad thing to actually say, mainly because all thats saying is that the only time you dont have to spam abilities to kill everything in the room is when the game reaches such a difficulty of scaling that it becomes impossible to do so. And basing the whole of the game on that logic is flawed as faw-

 

In regards to EasyMac's comment about |) if the game is to easy for you, go play solo.) -

The funny thing is my point still stands, say if i ran into an ODD solo with the right warframe and the right build, i could spam my way to a really decent level simply by spamming 4. (Like miasma for example)(or by spamming vortexes and shooting a single dread into the ball)

I just think that since the game has SOO many weapons and SOO many warframes now, that their abilities should actually be utilised. and not simply just for the "Well its there if you feel like it" value after you reach a certain part in the game.

The games hella fun, ive got like almost 3K steam hours on it, so all of this is just my opinion.

Notice that all of the newest enemies that DE introduce, are Specifically designed to combat ability spam? The new stealth grineer, and the nulifier corpus? They are literally the only time that some people even decide to use their primary weapon xD and thats only because they have to.

XP farming thats happening now, and has always been a problem within the last half a year, how did it happen? Because people can literally go hours into defences/interceptions just pressing 4 and 2.

May i refer to Warframes "By the number" graph for January to Febuary? - Out of every single power in this game, the 5 most used abilities by a HUGE margin, are skills that are spammed constantly.

they even said themselves that "when players find something that works, they use the hell out of it."

 

Just saying as GENERAL FEEDBACK as a player, that personally, the game for me is too much about efficiently killing rooms by spamming abilities

 

Key Question: Who cares?

 

Seriously, so what. If players want to utilize certain abilities more than others, who cares? Let people alone to play the game the way they choose to. It really, really is that simple. 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Really this balances nothing what is your proof this will work?

They already said NO to ability cooldowns I believe.

 

But DE wants you to use your powers. Even they said "no cool downs." Because it didn't work.

This game is too fast pace to have long cooldowns on it and if someone wants to mod for one ability let them.

 

1. They tried cooldowns once. It didn't go well. 2. DE Scott: "No Cooldowns!". :D

 

Oh god no. Not this. Never this. Cooldowns are ridiculous. They remove any sense of tactics or strategy and leave you staring at a cool down counter as opposed to the action on the screen. 

 

No. Not cool downs. I for one am out the moment that happens.

DE needs to give cooldowns another chance.

 

What was the problem with cooldowns exactly?

People sitting in a corner waiting for their 4 to get off cooldown.

You know what you could be doing while waiting?

FIGHTING. USING YOUR OTHER 3 ABILITIES. LIKE DE WANTS YOU TO.

 

Take a look at mass effect 3:

COOLDOWNS.

Nothing insane, like a 1.5 second wait for throw to get off cooldown if you had the right equipment.

 

IT WORKED.

Never have i seen a game that lets you use your strongest AOE nuke repeatedly back to back at least 8 times.

[Grom-84]

 

FIGHTING. USING YOUR OTHER 3 ABILITIES. LIKE DE WANTS YOU TO.

 

Aha, if only those rest 3 abils were anything usefull.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Aha, if only those rest 3 abils were anything usefull.

Then that is a problem WITH THE OTHER 3 ABILITIES.

 

Does anyone remember how long the cooldowns were?

 

In my opinion abilities should be on separate cooldowns, not shared like ME3.

This means you can spam slash dash over and over, but exalted blade must be saved for dire situations.

-like 1.5 second cooldown for slash dash

-at least 10 second cooldown for exalted blade(maybe more)

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

How many people will defend broken mechanics with broken mechanics? "Loki's permanent invisibility is fine, because otherwise enemies with auto rifles will one-hit him". So the solution, apparently, is to keep everything broken rather than fixing everything? The solution to "you need this at level 100" is to not have a level 100, or at least don't make it work the way it does. The solution is not to trivialize all gameplay so that level 100 is boring, but possible.

[Jin_Kazama]

Then that is a problem WITH THE OTHER 3 ABILITIES.

 

 

NOPE. 

The whole point of having 4 abilities is that you have abilities that do damage but at a more focused rate/or moves that alter your gameplay somehow, or just damage moves that only work in a certain area.

But whats the point when you can literally fire off 8 4's in a row like the guy said.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

NOPE. 

The whole point of having 4 abilities is that you have abilities that do damage but at a more focused rate/or moves that alter your gameplay somehow, or just damage moves that only work in a certain area.

But whats the point when you can literally fire off 8 4's in a row like the guy said.

Im not sure what you are trying to say

 

 

The whole point of having 4 abilities is t

Are you talking about the 4th ability or 1st through 4

 

 

But whats the point when you can literally fire off 8 4's in a row like the guy said.

 

I am trying to say that something is horribly wrong if any frame can use their 4th ability 8 times back to back.

Therefore, we need cooldowns.

 

What would cooldowns do?

-No more energy pizza abuse

-No more energy orbs

-More reliability with abilities

-More diversity with aura mods because energy siphon is out

-No more gmag abuse

-No more gmag abuse means no more mesa abuse

-No more mesa abuse means no more draco abuse

-No more Press 4 to win

-People will actually use 1st through 3rd abilities because there is little consequence in doing so

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Im not sure what you are trying to say

Are you talking about the 4th ability or 1st through 4

I am trying to say that something is horribly wrong if any frame can use their 4th ability 8 times back to back.

Therefore, we need cooldowns.

What would cooldowns do?

-No more energy pizza abuse

-No more energy orbs

-More reliability with abilities

-More diversity with aura mods because energy siphon is out

-No more gmag abuse

-No more gmag abuse means no more mesa abuse

-No more mesa abuse means no more draco abuse

-No more Press 4 to win

-People will actually use 1st through 3rd abilities because there is little consequence in doing so

Unfortunately everyone from Scott down looked at cooldowns and said "they didn't work before so don't use them!" rather than asking why they didn't work (not promoting player activity, lack of enemies that disincentivized camping/hiding, and cooldowns that were too long for weaker abilities). If they fixed those problems (make cooldowns longer, but quickened by killing enemies, enemies already prevent the second point from being an issue, and shorten weak abilities' cooldowns greatly) it could work. Moreover, energy as it is now has the advantage of flexibility, to an unhealthy level. By allowing people to cast before the cooldown ends (but with a huge detriment, such as halved stats for every cast) this could be made a non issue without being abusable. Edited July 5, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered