Exalted Blade Makes Excalibur A Living Fluctus And Deafeats The Ability Purpose

[Yaerion]

It's fun to see how much the topic has deviated from its original point, or how I totally misunderstood it.

The OP is telling that the ulti of XK breaks the purpose of a supposed melee-centric frame - and the existence of the combos, and propose solutions to solve these "issues". Am I correct?

Nowhere I see something that could be interpreted as "Nerf XK".

 

To clarify my position: I like that XK is now playable. In no way I want to nerf him, and I think the OP doesn't want such a thing either (except if I misunderstood him a lot).

I just think that the damage-waves break the purpose of a melee-centric frame (even if a great range is really appreciable).

This is just a matter of mechanics. I do not suggest to nerf the Ability. Just to focus the damage on the blade, and amplify the utility on the waves.

 

~*XK forever*~

[GottFaust]

It's fun to see how much the topic has deviated from its original point, or how I totally misunderstood it.

The OP is telling that the ulti of XK breaks the purpose of a supposed melee-centric frame, and propose solutions to solve this "issue". Am I correct?

Nowhere I see something that could be interpreted as "Nerf XK".

 

To clarify my position: I like that XK is now playable. In no way I want to nerf him, and I think the OP doesn't want such a thing either (except if I misunderstood him a lot).

I just think that the damage-waves break the purpose of a melee-centric frame (even if a great range is really appreciable).

This is just a matter of mechanics. I do not suggest to nerf the Ability. Just to focus the damage on the blade, and amplify the utility on the waves.

 

~*XK forever*~

And yet if you look at the contents of the post and suggested changes: they would result in a direct and MAJOR nerf to both the intended nerf target AND to his melee capabilities given that the waves also apply to melee hits.  It's simply a poorly thought out list of changes from the standpoint that the current implementation isn't melee focused enough. Again: if the OP had actually bothered to test he would have found that Excal's melee output FAR exceeds his ranged output and that the waves are intended as a stop-gap to aid in softening the targets while closing the distance.  Just because high-end players are building maxed builds and spamming the waves on low-end content does not mean that this is the experience  of the vast majority of players, the intended use, or even effective on enemies above lvl 90.

 

TL;DR: the OP's suggestions are poorly thought out given the overall balance of the game (he's got a VERY limited set of experiences he's talking from) and result in a direct and significant nerf to the capabilities of the frame as he currently stands.

[Omnimorph]

Exalted Blade is the new Greedy Pull. Nerf.

[Ronyn]

The OP is telling that the ulti of XK breaks the purpose of a supposed melee-centric frame - and the existence of the combos, and propose solutions to solve these "issues". Am I correct?

------

I just think that the damage-waves break the purpose of a melee-centric frame (even if a great range is really appreciable).

That's part of the disconnect here though.....being Melee-centric and being a melee frame aren't quite the same thing.

A lot of folks wanted Excalibur to be a melee frame, De agreed only to the point that he was melee-centric...there is a difference.

 

tweaks to how it works, how far it goes, and so forth are certainly worth discussing.

But if we can't recognize that DE wasn't even trying to make a full on melee frame here there will continue to be a large misunderstanding.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Wynn]

We playing space ninja that uses space magic, kinda silly to compare him to a normal "Swordsman". The revamp allows us to use him in high level void but even then you start needing to use Radial Blind on the higher end of them. 

[Bizzaro21]

the rework destroyed blind. 

It seems u didn`t even use him after it, unless u used super jump with blind, the rework didn`t even touch blind, all it did was reduce javelin a bit and give him a possibly destructive ult it buffed blind, now u can cast it while walking instead of just staring at enemies

[DeMonkey]

It seems u didn`t even use him after it, unless u used super jump with blind, the rework didn`t even touch blind, all it did was reduce javelin a bit and give him a possibly destructive ult it buffed blind, now u can cast it while walking instead of just staring at enemies

Berating me for clearly never having used it, yet not noticing that it forces finishers? I don't like finishers, in fact I hate finishers in this game with a passion. So yes, the rework destroyed the blind I loved.

[GottFaust]

It seems u didn`t even use him after it, unless u used super jump with blind, the rework didn`t even touch blind, all it did was reduce javelin a bit and give him a possibly destructive ult it buffed blind, now u can cast it while walking instead of just staring at enemies

Furthermore: the range of blind is nearly double what it was prior.  With just 140% range he has somewhere around a 40 meter radius.

 

Berating me for clearly never having used it, yet not noticing that it forces finishers? I don't like finishers, in fact I hate finishers in this game with a passion. So yes, the rework destroyed the blind I loved.

Oh, so it "destroyed" blind for YOU.  Again: you aren't the focus of the game. Neither am I or anyone else in this thread or forums individually.  Our individual use-cases and subjective ideas of what functionality should be are of absolutely no consequence.

 

As a side note: did  you not notice that the finishers only fire off from the rear 180 degree arc?  So long as you hit enemies from the front you can blind and be finisher-free.

Edited July 11, 2015 by GottFaust

[Shinobi-kun]

Berating me for clearly never having used it, yet not noticing that it forces finishers? I don't like finishers, in fact I hate finishers in this game with a passion. So yes, the rework destroyed the blind I loved.

Wasn't that just you? 

Blind gave me a chance to buy time and take down heavy units quickly without too much trouble.

[DeMonkey]

Oh, so it "destroyed" blind for YOU.  Again: you aren't the focus of the game. Neither am I or anyone else in this thread or forums individually.  Our individual use-cases and subjective ideas of what functionality should be are of absolutely no consequence.

Jesus, it's my opinion, I'm not currently asking for it to be removed, I'm not saying he's a bad frame for having it. I'm just saying I don't like it. You dont share my opinion, that's fine, but don't act like I'm saying things that I'm not.

[GottFaust]

Jesus, it's my opinion, I'm not currently asking for it to be removed, I'm not saying he's a bad frame for having it. I'm just saying I don't like it. You dont share my opinion, that's fine, but don't act like I'm saying things that I'm not.

You can't go around yelling for nerfs and then say you weren't or you were just stating your opinion.  Own up to what you said.  If you want him nerfed: that's fine.  Defend your opinion.

 

Go back and read what you said.  You never once put any form of "personal" identifier on what you posted.  You stated your intent matter of fact and as applicable to the whole.  That's fine.  You don't agree with the current implementation because it doesn't fit what you want and so you want him altered to fit you.  That's fine.  You state this fact on the forums.  That's fine.  What's not fine is that you then claim that you didn't do or think any of those things when you clearly and obviously did.  Stick to you guns man or don't post at all.

[Bizzaro21]

Berating me for clearly never having used it, yet not noticing that it forces finishers? I don't like finishers, in fact I hate finishers in this game with a passion. So yes, the rework destroyed the blind I loved.

i noticed, which why i noted u don`t seem to have used it, here`s a simple equation for you:

say ur using a weapon of 1 attack per second speed

u can waste 3 seconds to deal x dmg while u can deal that same x dmg with a finisher, so practically u must`ve never tried cal on lvl 100+ leech gunners have you? she tanked EB`s finisher with radiant finish and channeling melee with half her HP left, and she took 7 hits after it to die (all blinded) also if u don`t like finishers, u`d love the energy waves thing this thread is aiming to remove, as u can simply keep a distance and kill them, swift, no finishers and moderate dmg of around 11k /wave

other than that, you contradict yourself

[DeMonkey]

Go back and read what you said.  You never once put any form of "personal" identifier on what you posted.  You stated your intent matter of fact and as applicable to the whole.  That's fine.  You don't agree with the current implementation because it doesn't fit what you want and so you want him altered to fit you.  That's fine.  You state this fact on the forums.  That's fine.  What's not fine is that you then claim that you didn't do or think any of those things when you clearly and obviously did.  Stick to you guns man or don't post at all.

Correct that I don't agree with the current implementation, but I don't want him nerfed. Reason being that opinion is no reason to nerf something. The majority like it and some good points have been raised against OP that aren't just 'No'. So like I said, I don't want Excalibur to be nerfed, that doesn't change the fact that I don't like him however.

 

i noticed, which why i noted u don`t seem to have used it, here`s a simple equation for you:

say ur using a weapon of 1 attack per second speed

u can waste 3 seconds to deal x dmg while u can deal that same x dmg with a finisher, so practically u must`ve never tried cal on lvl 100+ leech gunners have you? she tanked EB`s finisher with radiant finish and channeling melee with half her HP left, and she took 7 hits after it to die (all blinded) also if u don`t like finishers, u`d love the energy waves thing this thread is aiming to remove, as u can simply keep a distance and kill them, swift, no finishers and moderate dmg of around 11k /wave

other than that, you contradict yourself

How often do you fight level 100's? 

[Bizzaro21]

Correct that I don't agree with the current implementation, but I don't want him nerfed. Reason being that opinion is no reason to nerf something. The majority like it and some good points have been raised against OP that aren't just 'No'. So like I said, I don't want Excalibur to be nerfed, that doesn't change the fact that I don't like him however.

 

How often do you fight level 100's? 

everyday actually I fight lvl 100`s, I have a bunch of survival keys stacked since i don`t know when unable to solo, now  Ican solo 60 mins like a boss in t4, so, you can consider daily fights with 100+ mobs

also, don`t like it=demanding change, change in your terms=nerf in mine

[GottFaust]

Correct that I don't agree with the current implementation, but I don't want him nerfed. Reason being that opinion is no reason to nerf something. The majority like it and some good points have been raised against OP that aren't just 'No'. So like I said, I don't want Excalibur to be nerfed, that doesn't change the fact that I don't like him however.

 

How often do you fight level 100's? 

Thanks for finally, clearly, stating that.  The next step would be to provide some suggestions to changes that would favor your playstyle, not detract from the myriad of other styles, and not result in a net nerf to the frame's capabilities.

 

As to the second point: if he's anything like myself and my alliance we fight 100+ targets very, very regularly.  They start showing up at wave 40+ in T4d and minute 45 in T4S if memory serves.  We generally target 60 waves and/or 60 minutes.  For interceptions I believe they're around iteration 16.

[Nadroid]

It's fun to see how much the topic has deviated from its original point, or how I totally misunderstood it.

The OP is telling that the ulti of XK breaks the purpose of a supposed melee-centric frame - and the existence of the combos, and propose solutions to solve these "issues". Am I correct?

Nowhere I see something that could be interpreted as "Nerf XK".

 

To clarify my position: I like that XK is now playable. In no way I want to nerf him, and I think the OP doesn't want such a thing either (except if I misunderstood him a lot).

I just think that the damage-waves break the purpose of a melee-centric frame (even if a great range is really appreciable).

This is just a matter of mechanics. I do not suggest to nerf the Ability. Just to focus the damage on the blade, and amplify the utility on the waves.

 

~*XK forever*~

 

 

 

 

 

TL:DR

 

"I want to nerf him but I don't want to call it a nerf we will call it a mechanical change to his skill set!"

 

 

P.S. You should apply to your local senate/legislative campaign board and let them know you will be opening up a fundraising campaign and will need to sign a plethora of forms to start your journey to fulfill your civic duty to openly pretend your original statements should be interpreted in a completely round context and opposite meaning then they originally meant to be taken as especially since you agreed with the original point.

 

When you get this info post a link here and I will donate 2 usd to start your journey to takeover the world.

 

:^)

[Autongnosis]

u can waste 3 seconds to deal x dmg while u can deal that same x dmg with a finisher, so practically u must`ve never tried cal on lvl 100+ leech gunners have you? she tanked EB`s finisher with radiant finish and channeling melee with half her HP left, and she took 7 hits after it to die (all blinded)

Unless you're using radiation damage on an heavy gunner that will never happen sorry. One finisher is enough for level 115 leech heavy eximi without radiant finish and without channelling. If you are i would question that more than anything - why going radiation now since Ancients give 90% stackable DR AND are extremely resistance to radiation damage? Corrosive/Cold took back the spot Radiation/Toxin had stole from it.

 

Corrosive+cold on level 113 leech Bombard, blinded 3 waves to go down, finisher one hit and he's gone. That's with 222% power strenght (rank 9 TF and rank 7 BR). On gunners obviously Corrosive made it way easier.

 

I have no idea what build you are using on your XCal and weapon but this claim looks completely bollocks to me.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Autongnosis

[Nadroid]

 

TL;DR :read underlined parts

 

Hi everyone! I'm writing this because, after some time to recover from the Excal 2.0 hype (XD) I noticed something wrong with his 4th ability...

When I play with other Excaliburs all I hear is "swoosh-swoosh-swoosh"... this is the sound of the spam. And when I turn to see the origin of this sound, I see this Excal cutting the air, killing hordes of enemies dozens of meters away from him. Obviously I see no one caring for the awesome but unnecessary combos. Not talking about Slash Dash (which has lower range than the waves and still is highly unrelyable) And I have to admit that I, too, ended playing him this way.

But this is not melee combat. This is gun fighting.

The energy wave thing totally ruins the concept of the ability and the warframe itself. The blade is nothing more that a Fluctus with a cool sword skin.

 

About this, I thought  some solutions:

1)only some moves from some combos create energy waves.

This way you can't spam waves and you have to do specific moves to use them, thus promoting the use of different combos.

2)introduce a charge attack that creates a wave, while every other attack don't.

You could still spam, but it would be slow and not that effective. The wave could cost a bit of energy to discourage the abuse (I'd prefer, but it could not be necessary )

3)only when channeling you create waves, but that comes with more energy consumption, so that you could still spam, but you're more limited and need to think when you can do it

And that's it, tell me what you think ;)

 

 

You are complaining about the most thematically sound ability on him aside from his iconic Slash Dash and it is mind-blowing to me.

Think about it...he is a swordsman based Tenno who shoots energy waves from his blade in a world where you are playing space ninja and people have ships/energy weapons/powers that completely break the mold of what a swordsman should be (Radial Blind, Radial Javelin) and you decide to argue that his "sword" based ability should be nerfed for not being a valid iteration of his character concept/theme?

 

Why not ask for his two and three to be changed into more thematically fitting for a swordsman instead of trying to push for changes to one of his most thematically sound abilities?

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Nadroid

[DeMonkey]

Thanks for finally, clearly, stating that.  The next step would be to provide some suggestions to changes that would favor your playstyle, not detract from the myriad of other styles, and not result in a net nerf to the frame's capabilities.

 

As to the second point: if he's anything like myself and my alliance we fight 100+ targets very, very regularly.  They start showing up at wave 40+ in T4d and minute 45 in T4S if memory serves.  We generally target 60 waves and/or 60 minutes.  For interceptions I believe they're around iteration 16.

Honestly, I cannot think of anything that would make Excalibur suit my playstyle but not detract from others, the reason being that I want him to be a 'proper' Swordframe, whereas the consensus is that the waves make the frame. Which is fine, like I said, plenty of other frames I enjoy playing, I've turned Chroma into a decent melee frame.

 

Very well then, however that is something only achievable by a group of vets, when I play with my friends we do far more relaxed runs, never anywhere near 100, highest we go is maybe 70. I cannot in my mind consider Blind good because it's useful against level 100 enemies, when it can slow down gameplay at lower levels, my opinion remains that the Blind I loved is gone.

 

also, don`t like it=demanding change, change in your terms=nerf in mine

And here I thought you were misunderstanding what I was saying, I see that you're just trolling. Saying that I don't like something doesn't mean I want it to change if it's going to have a negative impact on most of the community. I don't like Ice-Cream, doesn't mean I'm demanding it should change.

[VectorWolf]

Best solution to all the "hurr-durr nerf it!" S#&$posts, is for their authors to go to Simulacrum, summon 20 max level mooks, and put their rear on the line of fire. Few Heavy Gunners, few Nulls, maybe a Bombard or two, some Tar Moa and few Corrupted Lancers. If they still think it needs nerf, then we can talk.

[Jinryusai]

The combo system is trash.

 

End of discussion...

 

This game does not properly support it.

 

Melee Combos Take Too Much Concentration And Aren't Even Worth Doing.

 

Not Sure If I'm The Only One Who Feels This Way Regarding Melee Combos

 

Combo String System(Using The Reload Button) - A Better Combo System

 

Until these are done. no one shall give a damn about combos except a few.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Drufo]

It's fun to see how much the topic has deviated from its original point, or how I totally misunderstood it.

The OP is telling that the ulti of XK breaks the purpose of a supposed melee-centric frame - and the existence of the combos, and propose solutions to solve these "issues". Am I correct?

Nowhere I see something that could be interpreted as "Nerf XK".

 

To clarify my position: I like that XK is now playable. In no way I want to nerf him, and I think the OP doesn't want such a thing either (except if I misunderstood him a lot).

I just think that the damage-waves break the purpose of a melee-centric frame (even if a great range is really appreciable).

This is just a matter of mechanics. I do not suggest to nerf the Ability. Just to focus the damage on the blade, and amplify the utility on the waves.

 

~*XK forever*~

 

I think you're one of the few who understood what I wrote.

 

Excalibur is among my 3 favourites from before the rework, I don't want to nerf him. I played him a lot and saw many players play it, and those were my conclusions. So please don't use cheap arguments like "Excal is better than his favourite so he want it nerfed" or "you don't know how to play him".

I understand that everyone loves energy waves shot from an energy blade, but when you use it, think: are you actually fighting with your sword, or are you shooting with a sword-shaped gun? To me, the waves thing makes Exalted Blade ability more like Pacemaker than Hysteria, even though I really like the energy waves concept.

 

What I'm saying is that I prefer to have control on when I should shoot energy waves, instead of being forced to use them all the time when using the ability, which, as it is now, encourages the abuse of the waves, so I proposed some solutions

 

Oh, and about the "sword-man" interpretation, if your expectation of a guy named after a sword is an ability that lets him shoot instead of actually using his sword it's ok, but I expect said guy to use his sword...we have different opinions, clearly

[letir]

Is there something wrong with sword-gun? Pure melee is really stircken in warframe, and pure "swordframe" will face many troubles: Nullifiers, energy drain, cheap CC of enemies, insane damage of high-level enemies.

[Drufo]

Is there something wrong with sword-gun? Pure melee is really stircken in warframe, and pure "swordframe" will face many troubles: Nullifiers, energy drain, cheap CC of enemies, insane damage of high-level enemies.

not actually, it's just that to me it seems more gun than sword ;)

[TheBrsrkr]

Is there something wrong with sword-gun? Pure melee is really stircken in warframe, and pure "swordframe" will face many troubles: Nullifiers, energy drain, cheap CC of enemies, insane damage of high-level enemies.

DOes that mean that the way to make melee better is to turn it into a gun? I think not. Plus, every other frame has to fce the same challenges you listed.