My View On Warframe And Programming

[TheBrsrkr]

I have no idea how to code.

 

I think most of you know that programming is difficult, lenghty and frustrating, to say the least. Don't believe me? HIt Ctrl+U if you're on Chrome. Tell me that doesn't look like the most boring pile of gibberish you've ever seen in your life. Someone had to sit down and write that. And, up till 3 or so weeks ago, that someone was me.

 

Have you ever heard of a game called Hamsterball?  It's a Yahoo or MSN game where you  roll a hamster around the tracks to find....something. Still not sure what.  We'll call it a cookie. Around 3 months ago, I decided to learn how to program. 2 friends installed some software for me and gave me some tips, and told me that that was an easy game to recreate for a first timer. So I got to it. 

After 2 weeks or so of learning what all the terms and fancy symbols meant, i succeded making a ball, a level, and making it roll a bit. I was freakin' estatic. I just made a game in like, 3 weeks! I must be some kind of god! Put in the colors, make a cookie, make the levels in different shapes and I could be rich! I showed it to my programming friends, and asked why they don't do this crap for a living. They laughed at me and told me to finish it. I got a bit suspicious, but continued on. 

 

I figured content was the most important thing, since the coloring and stuff would be easy, so I made 15 new levels in about a month and a half (I type like crap, power outages etc). My thoughts turned to Warframe. If I, an ameteur, could make this crap so easily, why the hell does DE take so long to fix bugs and stuff? They must be masters at this crap, it can't be much harder! They got 200 people or so, we should be getting weapons and fixes every week! It honestly confused me.

 

When I thought I had made enough levels, 26 in all, I decided it was time to pick out some colors and add a little flair. So I changed the background blue, added the cookie and checkered the tiles black and white with a bit of textures. Everything just freakin' collapsed. All of a sudden the ball wouldn't roll. Took a few hours, but I worked arond it. Then half the tiles randomly disappeared. Then I started telporting directly to the cookie. Then the ball was no longer a ball, but a spiky unidentified mass. I flew out randomly into space. Invisible walls popped up everywhere. Every bug I fixed, it looked like 3 more popped up. I hadn't even added momentum to the ball yet. I called in my friends, and they had no idea what the hell I did. They were busy, and couldn't do it themselves, but inch by agonizing inch  I went over my code again and again, trying to patch things here and there. Eventually, everything smoothed out. It was functional.

 

I got one of them to play it, and she seemed surprised. She said usually it would take much, much longer to make something like this, much less make it playble. Then she looked over my code. And laughed. I asked what was so funny, and she just rolled the ball into a corner. I waited. It crashed. Whenever I tried to execute it, it crashed. Open the menu? Crash. Controls? Crash. Textures, colors, cookie? Crash, crash, crash. She found it amazingly funny. I didn't. I gave up.

 

TL;DR Programming as a form of sorcery that mere mortals can never hope to accomplish. DE must be some kind of high councl wizards to even attempt to look at the code that Warframe needs.

Edited July 11, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[RobWasHere]

Programming is easy and even can be enjoyable if you are patient, otherwise you will just smash your keyboard.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

That's how bugs work. I'm in a fairly similar situation to you (but with a platformer), and basically it goes

1. add something

2. Fix bugs on ten seemingly unrelated files that pop up

Edited July 11, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[TheBrsrkr]

Programming is easy and even can be enjoyable if you are patient, otherwise you will just smash your keyboard.

Found the wizard.

[egregiousRac]

Making small, simple things is easy.

 

The more complex it is, the more bugs become a problem. Especially when you have multiple people working on something.

[Mama_Sasha]

Well said Brsrkr. Programming isnt  as easy as people might think. Its not your typical ''maker'' programs level, and also, these ''maker'' programs like FPS Creator or RPG Maker are simply just level editor that allows you to add or change some assets.

True programming is where the real magic happens, but even the most skilled wizards can do some hicups, such as unintensionaly leak weapons into codex (Venka and Bo Prime was one of them).

[KIREEK]

[TheBrsrkr]

This was me every single day I worked on that thing

[Ninjamander]

 

finding bug in a nutshell

[Agentcheese]

I here i am with grand ideas for a bunch of video games I have thought of and want to make... now im scared...

[TheBrsrkr]

I here i am with grand ideas for a bunch of video games I have thought of and want to make... now im scared...

Be afraid.

Be very afraid.

The bugs..........

[SHIR0B0N]

If you consider ever studying programming, be sure that you love to code.

 

I have questioned myself numerous times during my studies. Programming isn't always what you think it is.

 

 

Knowing how people complain about bugs in such a harsh manner, almost acting as if they could do a better job than DE themselves, it pains me to see such people. They do not know how long it could take, to find the error in the source code.

 

 

When you see something like GTA5, well..Try laying down 60 gigs of code without a single bug. No one can.

[PsychedelicSnake]

If you consider ever studying programming, be sure that you love to code.

 

I have questioned myself numerous times during my studies. Programming isn't always what you think it is.

 

 

Knowing how people complain about bugs in such a harsh manner, almost acting as if they could do a better job than DE themselves, it pains me to see such people. They do not know how long it could take, to find the error in the source code.

 

 

When you see something like GTA5, well..Try laying down 60 gigs of code without a single bug. No one can.

Speaking of which, what is it about the Japanese/Korean bugtesting that's so mysterious? I mean, I know bugs exist in games from those countries, but the whole bugtesting and QA process surrounding them seems to be a bit of a mystical thing in the game development world. 

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

I'm going to put this out there.

 

I also started learning to program. It took me around a month to get a character to jump around a level and to avoid bombs without dying. The whole process seemed complicated and required a ton of research to hammer it all out.

 

But you also got to realize that the people at DE are professional programmers who had years and years of experience. These people should have most stuff down by now, and if any known and easily replicatable bugs that developers can fix within a day, there is no excuse for them to release it. Anything can look overly complicated once you begin it, be it programming or even simple math. If you were to look at Calculus for the first time you probably think all those symbols and numbers are just jibberish. But once you study calculus in great detail, all of that becomes more simpler to understand. Have you seen the latest devstraem where Mynki does some of that real time work on the new Valkyr prototype helm? Mynki is not some wizard that was born with that power to create every Warframe with just a click of the mouse (or maybe he is), but instead it was years of experience without being complacent.

 

So everytime I find a bug in Warframe, or in any game in general, I don't think to myself "oh, it's okay, you are only human and you make mistakes", but instead I see it as a sign of weakness. It is their jobs to fix bugs for a living. If there is any one bug that they forget and miss, then they shouldn't have dinner that night. 

 

Argh I'm salty.

[SHIR0B0N]

Speaking of which, what is it about the Japanese/Korean bugtesting that's so mysterious? I mean, I know bugs exist in games from those countries, but the whole bugtesting and QA process surrounding them seems to be a bit of a mystical thing in the game development world. 

 

I've never heard anything of such.

 

Knowing the Japanese, they would probably take any questions about bugs as an insult or remark on their "incompetence". 

 

Keep in mind that Japanese are very respectful and kind. Their worst enemy, is most often themselves.

Edited July 12, 2015 by SHIR0B0N

[JefPlays]

you see something like GTA5, well..Try laying down 60 gigs of code without a single bug. No one can.

 

60gigs of code? Hardly.

 

Most of the file size in games these days are from game assets; models, textures, sounds, level data, and so on. I'd wager the actual runtime itself occupies a very, very small percentage of that.

[unknow99]

while(code.functional != true)

{

   if !(ranOutOfCoffee)

     drink(); 

   fix();

}

[dacond3]

We must burn them for their crimes!

[SHIR0B0N]

60gigs of code? Hardly.

 

Most of the file size in games these days are from game assets; models, textures, sounds, level data, and so on. I'd wager the actual runtime itself occupies a very, very small percentage of that.

 

That wasn't the damn point but since you went there, try coding a simple calculator with GUI without having a bug.

 

It still applies even if your code is only 300 lines long.

[TheBrsrkr]

while(code.functional != true)

{

if !(ranOutOfCoffee)

drink();

fix();

}

Great. Now the background is randomly flashing.

[JefPlays]

That wasn't the damn point but since you went there, try coding a simple calculator with GUI without having a bug.

 

It still applies even if your code is only 300 lines long.

 

Been there, done that. And that was years ago, before I had any "formal" education in the field.

 

Now I'm writing a simple compiler for my university course. So yeah, I can code.

[unknow99]

Great. Now the background is randomly flashing.

throw(e.epilepticBackgroungException());

 

 

:p

Edited July 13, 2015 by unknow99

[SHIR0B0N]

Been there, done that. And that was years ago, before I had any "formal" education in the field.

 

Now I'm writing a simple compiler for my university course. So yeah, I can code.

 

I don't care if you can code or not, my point is to show that whether your code is long or not, there WILL be bugs. And that you can't just just yell at the devs and insult them for bugs, because no one would be able to do any better.

[unknow99]

Been there, done that. And that was years ago, before I had any "formal" education in the field.

 

Now I'm writing a simple compiler for my university course. So yeah, I can code.

Do you know how many variables,classes & subroutines are in the code of this game?....

 

Looking at the code of Donkey Kong may give you some headaches. Now Imagine the code behind Warframe man...

[Kalenath]

TL;DR Programming as a form of sorcery that mere mortals can never hope to accomplish. DE must be some kind of high councl wizards to even attempt to look at the code that Warframe needs.

 

Mortals CAN learn to code. It takes skill, dedication AND a large supply of booze or... other means of calming ones nerves.

 

I did it for a week as an adjunct programmer way back when. NEVER again.

 

 

Programming is easy and even can be enjoyable if you are patient, otherwise you will just smash your keyboard.

 

And then some nitwit on the internet comes alone and says 'Oh, it's easy to fix! Just do 'x'! How STUPID can you be not to be able to fix it ALL with one simple line of code?' If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

 

It is not hard, is it just painstaking and unforgiving of even the slightest of errors.

 

That's how bugs work. I'm in a fairly similar situation to you (but with a platformer), and basically it goes

1. add something

2. Fix bugs on ten seemingly unrelated files that pop up

 

Only 10? Wow. You ARE good.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Kalenath