Artificial Intelligence 2.0

[Zanspeed]

I think it is time for the enemies to stop half-assedly "Taking cover". You can still see them and easily shoot them. It's never helped them. How many times have you heard the lotus inform you that "You've been surrounded" without an enemy in sight? I think it is time the enemies actually start forming plans, ambushing the Tenno if they are not careful. For advanced civilizations they sure don't seem very bright. I will suggest changes to add/change. I welcome anyone to add to this list if they wish to. I hope this catches the attention of DE.

 

- Enemies that ACTUALLY take cover (Don't tell me they do. They don't.)

- Enemies that blind fire around corners (With lower accuracy of course.)

- Snipers that stay at a distance. (How is this not a given?)

- Enemies that wait around corners to ambush you and fire at you simultaneously if you are traveling in their direction.

- Enemies that create formations (a prone, a kneeling, and a standing line all simultaneously firing. Enemies lining up along an Ice eximus's ice shield. I'm sure you could think of more.)

- Communications between enemies that actually mean things (They do say things but I think it would be very cool for them to shout something and then to have all the hiding enemies simultaneously come out and fire.)

- Commanders. The Eximus's are only special because they are more powerful but I think it would be interesting if they could command the nearby units. Forcing them into formation, yelling at them to spread out etc.

- Creating blockades. (Just imagine A wall of shield lancers backed by Heavy Gunners to prevent your advance.)

- Targeting. (For example... If a group of Tenno are doing a mission together the enemies should choose a target to favor shooting at. Take down the Tenno One by One.)

- Plans. (Have a bunch of enemies wait behind a door. Make a fire eximus push the tenno to the ground and then have the eximus call in the troops behind the door to shoot at the downed tenno. Hellions could group up behind a door and hover. As the tenno travels through they shoot down at the tenno. The tenno would never anticipate this! I'm sure you could come up with more.)

- Morale. (This I am iffy about mentioning but I've thought of it. The Enemies constantly watch their friends be sliced in half, have huge holes blasted through them limbs EVERYWHERE, or have them simply turn into dust. (I mean have you seen the gore in this game?? HOLY SH*T It's fantastic :P) What I'm saying is that perhaps They should have a bit of a fear factor and try to run away if they have seen too much. This is also a way to differentiate between higher and lower level missions. Lower level enemies would be more likely to waver and run. They would regain composure later. Enemies taken over by the neural centry might not have that fear factor whatsoever. That just makes sense, right?)

 

PLEASE Tell me what you think! I think this could add a lot more strategy to the game and less mindless game play. If you have any more ideas please post them. If you have a way of making sure DE see this so they consider it please do whatever that is. I would really love to see this happen.

 

Let's put the Intelligence into Artificial Intelligence!

Edited July 16, 2015 by Zanspeed

[Zanspeed]

This post is similar and it seems to me as though many many tenno would approve of AI changes.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/442157-i-feel-like-warframe-could-maybe-take-a-page-from-killing-floor-2/

[Ydeirt]

I'm but a simple man, i see good idea, i upvote.

I think this will take sometime to get implemented since it will need extensive test to see the A.I. actually works as intended.
Thats pretty long list imo.
But good idea is a good idea.
 

[geninrising]

I'm but a simple man, i see good idea, i upvote.

I think this will take sometime to get implemented since it will need extensive test to see the A.I. actually works as intended.

Thats pretty long list imo.

But good idea is a good idea.

 

Correct this would take a massive amount of testing and work, however this would breath more life into this game than virtually anything else DE has done in forever.

[Stratego89]

Something I'd like to mention is that DE showed off "turrets" and "deployable cover (sandbags)" on a devstream about ~2 weeks ago. I'm all for smarter enemies- on the one condition that they make stealth actually viable first/at the same time. Seriously- there is no reason I can think of that one Grineer seeing you and not even being able to react before his head has been separated from the rest of his body should have a hive mind like effect and alert every other Grineer within a mile radius... I would KIND OF understand infested having a hive mind, I'd understand corpus robotics or cameras alerting other units instantaneously upon seeing an enemy- they're robots not people. The rest- not so much.

[MillbrookWest]

We don't do much of that hiding stuff either...and we're fully sentient human beings o_O

 

Would be a tad bit boring for enemies to be oto self conscious. It's a game after all, and not real life. I came to shoot things...my 2c

 

Besides:

It's not as if corners and walls are numerous enough to 'stock' some of the mob sizes....

 

To the AI's credit, at least a lancer will make use of a shield lancer and stack behind him using him as portable cover.

 

I do like the shield wall of lancers! That sounds amazing! DE must implement! O_O

[Zanspeed]

Something I'd like to mention is that DE showed off "turrets" and "deployable cover (sandbags)" on a devstream about ~2 weeks ago. I'm all for smarter enemies- on the one condition that they make stealth actually viable first/at the same time. Seriously- there is no reason I can think of that one Grineer seeing you and not even being able to react before his head has been separated from the rest of his body should have a hive mind like effect and alert every other Grineer within a mile radius... I would KIND OF understand infested having a hive mind, I'd understand corpus robotics or cameras alerting other units instantaneously upon seeing an enemy- they're robots not people. The rest- not so much.

 

Most of the things I mentioned in my post are all things that I would see happening after all enemies on the map have been alerted. This would also actually make hacking the system to unalert enemies potentially worthwhile instead of a bother since almost nothing changes otherwise.

[Stratego89]

Most of the things I mentioned in my post are all things that I would see happening after all enemies on the map have been alerted. This would also actually make hacking the system to unalert enemies potentially worthwhile instead of a bother since almost nothing changes otherwise.

Yeah- but it STILL wouldn't be worthwhile if one guy seeing you is instantly going to alert everyone again anyways... My point is, the stealth system needs major improvements along with the AI. There would be more benefit to actually playing stealthy with your suggestions; but when it's impossible, buffing the enemies AI is just making them more of a pain in the butt.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Stratego89

[RavenCorella]

I really love all of the ideas suggested. 

 

However, if they were to be able to get in-cover, maybe they should make an option for Tenno to do so as well, maybe two additional buttons that allow your upper body to move right/left and shoot out of cover.

[Feallike]

They do do most of the things you say they don't do...... You just kill them before they get a chance. -.- The only thing they don't do on this less is communicate with eachother and focus fire.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Feallike

[Zanspeed]

They do do most of the things you say they don't do...... You just kill them before they get a chance. -.- The only thing they don't do on this less is communicate with eachother and focus fire.

Not true. They don't cover. (Well I guess they do but they suck at it. That's why I'm killing them all so quickly isn't it?) They DO kind of blind fire but since they don't actually cover it doesn't really help. Having Snipers stay at a distance can be difficult since Tenno move quickly but too often have I seen snipers stand very close to a pod you are defending (Not something a sniper would do, right?). The Targeting I mentioned they could be doing... But I don't think so. 

 

Regardless. Communication and focus fire is the thing I am focusing on the most since it will add to the gameplay the most. (In my opinion)

[TaylorsContraction]

The enemy ai does surround players, we usually kill them before they get to do it. This is easily apparent in Archwing missions though. Uranus interception, the swarms will surround you.

[RavenCorella]

Speaking of snipers, they should get laser beams when targeting a Tenno, to let you figure out where they are shooting from (If the way they act chances). 

[motorfirebox]

Yes, AI must be improved. The current AI really holds the game back in a lot of areas.

[Skarokin]

uh the "form a line thing" is easily bypassed through a weapon with punch through "dread" an ability like miasma, bladestorm, etc

[Davoodoo]

Anyone remember corrupted crewman shotgun blind fire?? well, i do. Long burst with pump action shotgun fired from behind a cover.

I constantly see units swarming around shield ospreys, i see them staying near shield lancers, i see missile units staying behind.

 

We dont need better ai.

We need weaker players so ai have a chance to react.

 

Ill use my favorite example, payday 2.

And actually payday 2 ai is dumb as F*** compared to warframe, they arent taking cover, they can literally run into fire.

But due to design choices, they have preset sniper locations and spawns points, because they arent using procedurally generated everything, so sniper units and lemming rushes seem more coordinated.

 

Actually ive seen 1 ai better than warframe. Deus ex human revolution. Not because ai was smarter, but because it was more realistic, they havent tracked you but remembered your last known location and fired there.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Davoodoo

[TaylorsContraction]

I remember F.E.A.R had a good AI by using since trickery, maybe De should look into that.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

- Enemies that ACTUALLY take cover (Don't tell me they do. They don't.)

 

They actually do. The problem is the available cover is generally too small to cover all of them.

This is a good thing gameplaywise because there's nothing worse than an enemy who's hunkering down in cover who you can't shoot no matter how skilled you are. Doubly so if they're blindfiring at you to keep you from advancing.

 

Even cover shooters ala Gears or ME2/3 don't have the enemy crouch down fully behind cover, because that makes for really unfun gameplay.

 

- Enemies that blind fire around corners (With lower accuracy of course.)

 

They do this now. Not hugely often, but to be fair, this sort of mechanic isn't hugely useful anyway.

 

- Snipers that stay at a distance. (How is this not a given?)

 

They also do this now. Sniper AI is set up such that they will move to their optimal distance to snipe at you. The only exception is nullifiers, which will slowly advance towards you because other enemies take advantage of their shields. It's most evident with ballistas.

 

- Enemies that wait around corners to ambush you and fire at you simultaneously if you are traveling in their direction.

 

It may simply be a matter of how the spawn mechanics work, but enemies will very often bushwhack you as you turn corners in this game.

 

- Enemies that create formations (a prone, a kneeling, and a standing line all simultaneously firing. Enemies lining up along an Ice eximus's ice shield. I'm sure you could think of more.)

 

Enemies *will* take cover inside shields and in front of shield lancers. Other formations aren't all that good because in all likelihood you're not going to see them much before the Tenno with his five forma boltor prime kills them all.

 

- Creating blockades. (Just imagine A wall of shield lancers backed by Heavy Gunners to prevent your advance.)

- Targeting. (For example... If a group of Tenno are doing a mission together the enemies should choose a target to favor shooting at. Take down the Tenno One by One.)

 

The trouble here is that the spawns have to align to make this work, and then it has to be fun for the players to defeat. Getting smashed in the face by something you had no real counter to isn't fun.

 

- Plans. (Have a bunch of enemies wait behind a door. Make a fire eximus push the tenno to the ground and then have the eximus call in the troops behind the door to shoot at the downed tenno. Hellions could group up behind a door and hover. As the tenno travels through they shoot down at the tenno. The tenno would never anticipate this! I'm sure you could come up with more.)

 

I don't think this would be very fun to play against.

 

"So I passed through a door and a hellion that I had no way of knowing was even there stunned me with a blast proc, opening me up for the lancers to slash me to death with their hinds." 

You kind of have to give the player a way to survive this if you want it to be fun; after all, the ultimate point of AI in any game is not to win, it's to lose in an entertaining fashion.

 

Also, making an AI that can actually plan (instead of convincingly fake it with dev trickery) is incredibly difficult. I'd go so far as to say it's impossible on current hardware.

 

That's why I'm killing them all so quickly isn't it?

 

No. You're killing them so quickly because you have powers that laugh at their puny attempts to hide from you, and you also most likely have a weapon which can punch right through their cover as if it isn't even there.

More to the point, you're killing them so quickly because you're a Tenno, a warrior ideal made flesh and clad in the most potent god-technology the orokin could construct, wielding weapons with technology able to take the laws of the universe and ignore them at a whim to do things like make poison clouds serrated or make guns fire extra bullets pulled from nowhere. Part of the charm of Warframe, I'd argue, is how blender-like a skilled Tenno is to even the deadliest of his opponents.

[ShortCat]

As many stated here the Ai is not that horrible.

Even if this changes are implemented, we won't see much of a difference because of all that miasma, mprime or disarms.

 

The only move the AI needs to learn atm is to drop weapons and run from us.

[magusat999]

In order for this to be a game in which you can win, they have to be dumber than us. They cannot be ambushng us and taking complete cover as one would do in real life, because - well this is not real life. It would give you no chance to win if some of the things you say were implemented. Yes, it makes it more challenging - but more like Dark Souls challenging, where you EXPECT to die all the times. Since we only have 4 revives, that's just not viable in Warframe.

 

The AI therefore must make it so you have a chance. There will be things sticking out from cover - so you can shoot it. An ambush will be known if you pay attention - so you can avoid it. We are supposed to be the heroes of the game, not the game's little b***h to plug every time we go into a mission. We are supposed to win and I do not mind the AI designed so that we can win.

 

Your suggestions will just add to the frustration that's already in Warframe. Remember it's a very grindy game - who wants to face those kinds of mechanics over and over again. Since we have to play levels hundreds of times, making it more of a drawn out affair, in which we can get killed easy would just make WF un-enjoyable  to play.

[motorfirebox]

In order for this to be a game in which you can win, they have to be dumber than us. They cannot be ambushng us and taking complete cover as one would do in real life, because - well this is not real life. It would give you no chance to win if some of the things you say were implemented. Yes, it makes it more challenging - but more like Dark Souls challenging, where you EXPECT to die all the times. Since we only have 4 revives, that's just not viable in Warframe.

 

The AI therefore must make it so you have a chance. There will be things sticking out from cover - so you can shoot it. An ambush will be known if you pay attention - so you can avoid it. We are supposed to be the heroes of the game, not the game's little b***h to plug every time we go into a mission. We are supposed to win and I do not mind the AI designed so that we can win.

 

Your suggestions will just add to the frustration that's already in Warframe. Remember it's a very grindy game - who wants to face those kinds of mechanics over and over again. Since we have to play levels hundreds of times, making it more of a drawn out affair, in which we can get killed easy would just make WF un-enjoyable  to play.

I don't agree at all. Adding some intelligence to the AI won't make the game a Dark Souls-style challenge, because even with better tactics the mobs simply don't have anything to make them that challenging. You'll still be able to one-shot them with Dread past wave 40, you'll just need to pay a little more attention to who you're shooting and who might be about to shoot at you.

 

And we're supposed to be highly-mobile space ninjas. If the enemy is behind cover from  your current position, move to where you've got a better shot.

 

The current AI is a huge source of the grindiness of the game. All they do is run towards you until they're in range and attack while taking cover at random intervals. There's never any need for much situational awareness beyond "has anyone spawned behind me". The AI is so dumb that we can just run around spamming 4 and win. Partly that's because our ults are so powerful, but another significant part is that the AI is to dumb to learn what our ult range is and try to stay out of it.