Confused About The Upcoming Shotgun Buff

[aerosoul1337]

As devstream explains, shotguns will do a lot more damage at optimized range, which is about 10~15m.

But, why is the damage lower at shorter range? like 5m or 8m...

Point blank shot is always supposed to do max damage.

 

There are still damage falloff, thus you have to try to keep the distance within the "optimized" range.

At longer range it will lose optimized damage bonus and you have huge spread, and even damage falloff. The damage will drop like hell.

 

At medium range, it is probably impossible to make all pellets hit the target.

This is a bit weird that you can't deal its full damage potential because short range is not considered "optimized" range.

 

And... since the pellets spread a lot at long distance, why not just remove damage falloff?

We already have damage penalty at long range.

 

Not really complaining but really confused.

 

 

Edit: thanks for explain.

 

These are what I read and got confused anyway:

https://warframe.com...eam-55-overview

 

Shotgun Tweaks

• Range tweaks for all shotguns will change effectiveness at various distances.
• DPS may be doubled or tripled at optimal firing range.

And this thread from bunny: https://forums.warfr...am-57-overview/

 

Shotgun Buffs

 

• Scott's very worried that they're OP now

• There is a lot of "power" behind each shot via ragdolling enemies

• Optimal range for shotguns is fairly generous; around 10-15 m

Edited July 26, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[Vargras]

Damage falloff is only going to be 50% of base damage soon. Given what we saw in the devstream, shotgun damage is absolutely monstrous now, meaning falloff isn't gonna hurt much.

 

I mean, 10k+ damage on Tigris.

[Arunafeltz]

Eh damage falloff should just go... unless people are still comparing Heks to Latrons and Snipetrons being used in the Asteroid Base tileset when there are a few dozen more guns that already exist killing enemies faster than all three of them combined. But whatever, I'd still take reduced falloff over the current falloff that turns pellets into cotton candy against anything standing down the corridor.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

I believe Scott was saying that falloff was going to be balanced so there is always going to be a minimum damage cap at any distance. Of course that was a couple dev streams or so ago, but it seems really good.

[StalkingDragon]

As devstream explains, shotguns will do a lot more damage at optimized range, which is about 10~15m.

But, why is the damage lower at shorter range? like 5m or 8m...

Point blank shot is always supposed to do max damage.

Optimized range isn't between ~10-15m, but rather caps at that distance. This means: damage falloff sets in at about 10-15m depending on the shotgun used.

[Hatzeputt]

I think it is kinda inappropriate to judge things solely based on some video footage you saw. Once everyone can test to their hearts content you can judge properly whether the mechanics work or not. 

 

Why do people ALWAYS feel the urge to judge things prematurely without even having had a chance to use them.......

[jsnforce]

I assumed the Drakgoon or whatever it is would be awesome against Infested, especially with fire mods. I was surprised how little damage I was doing and how it also didn't FEEL powerful, even against much weaker enemies that I was tearing through.

 

The addition of a little more BASS on some of these impacts might make for a more significant feeling of 'oomph'. 

[aerosoul1337]

Optimized range isn't between ~10-15m, but rather caps at that distance. This means: damage falloff sets in at about 10-15m depending on the shotgun used.

 

So you mean it will be 0~10m for some shotguns.

And 0~15m for some shotguns?

If that is true, then point blank shot will do max damage :D

Edited July 26, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[orvos]

There should be damage falloff given on how shotguns actually work, close range they would deal massive damage, long distance the pellets should spread more dealing less damage...

[aerosoul1337]

Damage falloff is only going to be 50% of base damage soon. Given what we saw in the devstream, shotgun damage is absolutely monstrous now, meaning falloff isn't gonna hurt much.

 

I mean, 10k+ damage on Tigris.

 

But optimized range is about triple damage, further than that, damage is 1/3, and damage falloff 50% and pellets hit less, let's say 50% pellets...

 

10K * 1/3 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 833.

1/12 is still huge difference actually.

Edited July 26, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[StalkingDragon]

So you mean it will be 0~10m for some shotguns.

And 0~15m for some shotguns?

If that is true, then point blank shot will do max damage :D

Just checked the devstream. That's what they said at ~43 minutes. "Within 10 meters. 10, 15 meters."

If that's what you missunderstood: "Within 10 meters" specifies the space between object O (here: your weapon) and any point P 10 meters away from O.

 

But optimized range is about triple damage, further than that, damage is 1/3, and damage falloff 50% and pellets hit less, let's say 50% pellets...

 

10K * 1/3 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 833.

1/12 is still huge difference actually.

This is nonsense. Everything inside optimized range suffers your weapon's normal damage (10k in our example) and beyond this damage falloff kicks in reducing your damage with increasing range to a minimum of 50% normal damage (5k - assuming all pellets hit).

Edited July 26, 2015 by Dragon_of_Shadow

[S3EK3R]

[aerosoul1337]

Just checked the devstream. That's what they said at ~43 minutes. "Within 10 meters. 10, 15 meters."

If that's what you missunderstood: "Within 10 meters" specifies the space between object O (here: your weapon) and any point P 10 meters away from O.

 

This is nonsense. Everything inside optimized range suffers your weapon's normal damage (10k in our example) and beyond this damage falloff kicks in reducing your damage with increasing range to a minimum of 50% normal damage (5k - assuming all pellets hit).

 

What I thought is "10m~15m", the medium range, has the optimized bonus which is 300% of the base damage (from devstream 56, still not very clear in devstream 57 tho).

If I was wrong, then the base damage has been doubled or tripled itself, not from special optimized bonus.

Edited July 26, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[StalkingDragon]

[...]

It was devstream 55. Scott never said anything about "special optimized bonus" and the "optimal zone" refered to the damage unaffected by falloff.

 

I set it to the correct time:

Edited July 26, 2015 by Dragon_of_Shadow

[Ashnal]

As devstream explains, shotguns will do a lot more damage at optimized range, which is about 10~15m.

But, why is the damage lower at shorter range? like 5m or 8m...

Point blank shot is always supposed to do max damage.

 

There are still damage falloff, thus you have to try to keep the distance within the "optimized" range.

At longer range it will lose optimized damage bonus and you have huge spread, and even damage falloff. The damage will drop like hell.

 

At medium range, it is probably impossible to make all pellets hit the target.

This is a bit weird that you can't deal its full damage potential because short range is not considered "optimized" range.

 

And... since the pellets spread a lot at long distance, why not just remove damage falloff?

We already have damage penalty at long range.

 

Not really complaining but really confused.

I don't think they Scott explained this well. But what he meant is that he didn't want shotguns to feel like melee weapons, therefore he balanced them to be used in the 10m-15m range.

 

Shotguns will do full damage (starting with the new post 300% buff values) from point blank all the way out to that 10m-15m mark, then gradually decrease to ~50% damage at longer range. He never said that they would do less damage if you were closer, don't know how you got that honestly.

[Lost_Cartographer]

There's no way shotguns would start off weaker at point blank only to gain damage up to a point, then fall of again.

 

What he was referring to was the maximum effective range before they began to bleed damage and the spread making things worse.  In Warframe, no shotgun that is only effective in near melee range is worth using - we're Tenno, we'll just use melee at that point.  Right now, 10-15m is a fair distance in Warframe.

[noveltyhero]

Let's not forget that new parkour encourages you (or seems to so far) to get up closer

[CTanGod]

DE will never remove damage falloff because Tainted Shell exists. That mod reduces the spread of shotguns and can easily turn them into sniper rifles.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Damage fall off shouldn't even be a thing. Spread is already fall off on it's own without needing to add in artificial falloff..

[aerosoul1337]

I don't think they Scott explained this well. But what he meant is that he didn't want shotguns to feel like melee weapons, therefore he balanced them to be used in the 10m-15m range.

 

Shotguns will do full damage (starting with the new post 300% buff values) from point blank all the way out to that 10m-15m mark, then gradually decrease to ~50% damage at longer range. He never said that they would do less damage if you were closer, don't know how you got that honestly.

 

Thanks for the explain.

I must confess I got confused from this: https://warframe.com/news/devstream-55-overview

 

Shotgun Tweaks

• Range tweaks for all shotguns will change effectiveness at various distances.
• DPS may be doubled or tripled at optimal firing range.

And this thread from bunny: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/495356-devstream-57-overview/

 

Shotgun Buffs

 

• Scott's very worried that they're OP now

• There is a lot of "power" behind each shot via ragdolling enemies

• Optimal range for shotguns is fairly generous; around 10-15 m

 

 

 

 

Okay, I am confused because of these 2 :p

1.Range tweaks for all shotguns will change effectiveness at various distances.

2.Optimal range for shotguns is fairly generous; around 10-15 m

 

Thanks for correction!

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

I was wondering if this buff will affect Sweeper as well, as I'm not planning to use shotguns on my frame anyway...

[aerosoul1337]

I was wondering if this buff will affect Sweeper as well, as I'm not planning to use shotguns on my frame anyway...

 

First, are secondary shotguns considered "shotguns" as well?

If "NO", then we don't have much shotguns actually...

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

First, are secondary shotguns considered "shotguns" as well?

If "NO", then we don't have much shotguns actually...

You mean including Brakk, Detron and stuff like that? I don't think that's gonna happen, while Sweeper uses shotguns proper mods, it could be a primary shotgun...

[Pendragon1951]

Optimized range isn't between ~10-15m, but rather caps at that distance. This means: damage falloff sets in at about 10-15m depending on the shotgun used.

This isn't true, if you re-watch the devstream at 43:20 Glen asks Scott what is the sweet spot meaning what is the optimal range to get the most damage and Scott replies between 10 and 15 meters, beyond that will probably fall off to half the base damage as Scott explained. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Pendragon1951

[godila2]

secondary shotguns, bronco(4), pyrana, brakk, detron, kohmak

 

and they metioned shotguns, not the just primary ones