The Gorgon ruins this game.

[Solvite]

Oh yes. Because my most used weapon isn't the Lex or anything. Nope.

A weapon most people consider underpowered.

Sorry, the Gorgon isn't OP to the extent you're claiming, I think you're just angry that autofire weapons and LMGs in particular don't suck.

Your ability to effectively use the Lex doesnt change the fact that all weapons are sub par compared to the bullet hose.

[Nirrti]

One way to "balance" things out would be to give weapons passive speed modifications. As in, if you have a braton as your primary, you move a bit faster than if you had a gorgon.

Although, in my opinion, as it currently is, I find it more fun using the Snipetron(Although, I do have a rank 30 Gorgon, but I find it boring), and I pretty much only play the game with friends, so I don't really have any issues with random people running and gunning around with the gorgon.

Then there is always the fact that you can out DPS a Gorgon with for example Snipetron if your aim is true and you've got correct mods on it (just as with the gorgon being very powerful with right mods).

Edited January 18, 2013 by Nirrti

[eelektrik]

Just because you want to sit back and snipe, doesn't mean someone with a minigun running around holding the left mouse button shouldn't be able to do that and be viable doing that.

Your complaints about bosses are a problem with the bosses, not the guns. If their shields didn't recharge nearly immediately single shot weapons would be prefectly viable at soloing them.

[CapricaSix]

Well as simple as it may sounds, on later levels especially, it makes sense to have strong weapons, such a Gordon or any of the shotguns. On the flip side it does not make sense than every other weapon is weak in comparasion to then. Did someone tried to take on pluto solo with a lvl 30 Braton? You definetly can with HEK though....

Exactly, only thing thats making these guns {not only talking about Gorgon and HEK} OP is the fact that you can buy these with platinium before you even play the game, or easily craft them. When you start sending people flying with a single shot or take down 40-50 people with a single clip in a low level system, it does indeed seem OP...

It's not like I even like the gun, I just don't like these unnecessary nerfs.

You honestly have me really confused, i thought they must of nerfed it again and didnt know about it. i went in and checked ingame just now with my lvl 29 gorgon(with unimpressive mods). 10 bullets to kill a shielded lvl 50 walker with a few misses. Less that that to kill unshielded enemies. Of course heavies and armored would be more then that, but thats still pluto, not even the hot spot of this game.

4-5 shots to kill lvl 15-20 infested in the alert missions just now. Thats gonna be annoying for new players having high ranked players join their missions to lvl up new warframes.

You might just be exaggerating to get your point accross, if not then maybe you can explain.

Let's not argue over semantics now just because I said 1/4. Let me correct that with 1/5 or 1/6 if you want, that is still a lot. I just played with it on Earth earlier against Grineer and it was as I said, I didn't miss a lot yet I didn't get that many headshots either, but thats how it was for me. I don't have multishot or crit mods on it either, only damage mods. and as I said my Gorgon is about lvl15-20{12, just checked}, maybe it does become OP at 30, I wouldn't know.

[Edit] I'm not sure if we're playing the same game, I played the first mission on Pluto now with my "humble" lvl12 Gorgon, it took about 40-50 bullets to take down a pansy Corpus soldier, almost 20 to take down one of those flying things and you can pretty much triple that amount if you try and kill 2 of them at once. And I start with 500 ammo. Right. I'll admit that 1/4 was apparently a bit over the top though lol but its still a lot, got not nearly enough ammo to be OP or anything.

Edited January 18, 2013 by CapricaSix

[EclecticDragon]

If I had multishot mods it would be extremely OP. Right now the best I can do is ~40% crit and 3x crit multiplier for mods. Solo I finish most bosses with around 80 rounds left in my clip out of 244. Just invis on Loki and stand there shooting them in the face. I'm sure if I was in a group of all 30s it might be different but if you are a good shot, you will not have any issues with ammo. I carry extra ammo boxes just in case I feel like being trigger happy but rarely actually need to use them. All of it's stats are either first or second highest of automatic weapons, accuracy withstanding. But then again you don't need accuracy if you're putting the muzzle to someones chin. Is it OP or is it that it just doesn't have any competition?

If you put mulitshot mods on anything it's extremely OP.

[MJ12]

Your ability to effectively use the Lex doesnt change the fact that all weapons are sub par compared to the bullet hose.

Yes it does.

Using the Lex: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, mash LMB, repeat.

Using the Gorgon: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, hold LMB, repeat.

SO MUCH MORE SKILL USING THE LEX. Oh wait while using a Gorgon I also have to manage recoil and spread and ADS if they're far away.

Literally every criticism of the Gorgon you make applies to other guns. This is a boss design problem and encounter problem, not a Gorgon problem.

Its even worse if you do aim.

Fights in this game usually boil down to 4 guys with Gorgons spamming at the boss until it dies from the combined weight of their bullet vomit.

And that's a problem with boss design, not the Gorgon, because it is the same thing no matter what weapons you have. One weapon just needs to be rapidfire because boss shield regen is terribly implemented.

[Onisake]

If you're only running bosses, then the Gorgon can seem like a very solid gun. but I find during normal missions it's a bit lacking.

I use it on tougher 'mini-boss' type enemies and bosses. everything else i use my aklato and melee.

I carry riffle boxes around with me for bosses, and generally only use my gorgon on bosses/minibosses. my pistols can usually see me through a mission. if i happen to run out of ammo i switch to the gorgon.

I think one big issue is there aren't really any alternatives to people who like automatic weapons. we can get an afuris, but it's not a main weapon.

the burston is utter garbage. and the dps of the Braton compared to the gorgon...well..we only have two real options if you prefer automatic weapons. the braton and the gorgon. the gorgon is clearly better of the two, so why wouldn't you use it?

[AzureFayt]

I beg to disagree with the OP....the gorgon is a fun gun to use and if you hav eno skill and dont manage your ammo yuo will run out of ammo way before you reach any boss anyways

[Solvite]

Yes it does.

Using the Lex: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, mash LMB, repeat.

Using the Gorgon: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, hold LMB, repeat.

SO MUCH MORE SKILL USING THE LEX. Oh wait while using a Gorgon I also have to manage recoil and spread and ADS if they're far away.

Literally every criticism of the Gorgon you make applies to other guns. This is a boss design problem and encounter problem, not a Gorgon problem.

And that's a problem with boss design, not the Gorgon, because it is the same thing no matter what weapons you have. One weapon just needs to be rapidfire because boss shield regen is terribly implemented.

You don't need to manage spread with the Gorgon.

[UkyoSonoda]

The way the OP keeps trying to point out the Snipetron being a higher skill weapon makes me think he's simply upset he gets no kills in team games because run and gun players take everything out while he's trying to aim and is simply picking a weapon he sees the run and gun players using as a scapegoat to vent on.

[AreWeHuman]

Yes it does.

Using the Lex: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, mash LMB, repeat.

Using the Gorgon: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, hold LMB, repeat.

SO MUCH MORE SKILL USING THE LEX. Oh wait while using a Gorgon I also have to manage recoil and spread and ADS if they're far away.

Yo dawg, you left out the part where the gorgon does it 3x-4x faster than any other gun except the HEK. And the HEK does at least require exposing oneself to somewhat more risk, forgoing cover and a more twitch+rush style.

Are you seriously pretending that when it comes down to it some guns aren't outrageously more effective than others?

I can use the hell out of a lex btw this isn't a comparison based on skill. From the moment I acquired the weapon I could line up headshots a bit faster than the lex base firing rate. OR I can whip at the gorgon and use my same ability to aim well to kill everything faster and unless the snipetron scales up better than every other gun, the campirson holds true for EVERY OTHER (agian, excluding hek) primary I have touched.

And yes you are right about boss mechanics needing some tweaks.

What you aren't right about is weapon balance not needing tweaks. And the gorgon doesn't necessarily need a nerf, the other weapons just need to feel more like options and less like second rate.

[Solvite]

The way the OP keeps trying to point out the Snipetron being a higher skill weapon makes me think he's simply upset he gets no kills in team games because run and gun players take everything out while he's trying to aim and is simply picking a weapon he sees the run and gun players using as a scapegoat to vent on.

You can run and gun with the Snipetron.

But you still have to identify a target, aim at it, and hit its body.

With the gorgon you just look in the general direction of enemies and hold left click until they are dead. The spread is honestly helpful on some enemies,

It doesnt make sense for the fastest firing primary do do more damage per shot than the other automatics, have the ability to ADS and make the cone smaller, the ability to shoot on the run, and a giant clip like a minigun.

I am merely saying the developers need to decide if the Gorgon is a semi auto, an LMG, a mid range Assault Rifle, or a Vulcan Minigun, because currently it is all of those.

[Solvite]

Yo dawg, you left out the part where the gorgon does it 3x-4x faster than any other gun except the HEK. And the HEK does at least require exposing oneself to somewhat more risk, forgoing cover and a more twitch+rush style.

Are you seriously pretending that when it comes down to it some guns aren't outrageously more effective than others?

I can use the hell out of a lex btw this isn't a comparison based on skill. From the moment I acquired the weapon I could line up headshots a bit faster than the lex base firing rate. OR I can whip at the gorgon and use my same ability to aim well to kill everything faster and unless the snipetron scales up better than every other gun, the campirson holds true for EVERY OTHER (agian, excluding hek) primary I have touched.

And yes you are right about boss mechanics needing some tweaks.

What you aren't right about is weapon balance not needing tweaks. And the gorgon doesn't necessarily need a nerf, the other weapons just need to feel more like options and less like second rate.

I disagree. I don't feel like leveling up your character should turn you into a super hero.

I think the game should have a continuously increasing difficulty curve, not a flat tier that you hit, at which point you just poop on all enemies and farm parts for new costumes.

[UkyoSonoda]

A supercharged snipetron with good mods is quite ridiculous in the hands of someone that can rapidly line up headshots. I have a friend that uses one with his trinity frame.

You'll probably start to see less Hek's in games now that the blueprint requires rank 5 to purchase in the shop as well.

Gorgon requires rank 2 to purchase. I don't recall the other rifles being locked at rank 1.

Still any weapon can become OP in the right hands with the right mods attached to it

[Kaiku]

We need a complete overhaul for the weapon, gear and loot system.

Now you just get yourself the gun you want and use it rest of your life. That's NOT how it should be.

We need a random loot system so we can get different kind of weapons and other gear with different stats.

If the system was similiar to Borderlands or Diablo or almost any other RPG out there, we wouldn't be complaining about inbalances between weapons.

It makes Warframe have more point when you can make progress by finding new gear. Finding only modules to boost only one stat of a one piece of gear just isn't interesting enough.

Don't complain of one weapon being more powerful than other, complain the gear system being too simple and lacking content instead.

[UkyoSonoda]

More damage per shot than an automatic rifle, Larger clip, aim down sights to tighen cone, run and gun. Sounds like a typical LMG on any CoD game to me. Atleast the Braton for me still hit targets reliably at long range when I used ADS provided I didn't keep the trigger pulled for full auto. At a comparable distance trying to do the same with a Gorgon I tend to watch the first 3-6 bullets hit around the reticule before one actually lands on mark.

[Solvite]

More damage per shot than an automatic rifle, Larger clip, aim down sights to tighen cone, run and gun. Sounds like a typical LMG on any CoD game to me. Atleast the Braton for me still hit targets reliably at long range when I used ADS provided I didn't keep the trigger pulled for full auto. At a comparable distance trying to do the same with a Gorgon I tend to watch the first 3-6 bullets hit around the reticule before one actually lands on mark.

People seem to be convinced that the MINISCULE loss of burst damage you suffer by using the gorgon someone offsets the ability to spam ludicrously hard hitting rounds for prolonged periods of time.

I notice this mindset in most newer games. Its like people have forgotten that Burst Damage isnt the only form of damage.

[Aggh]

I want to start by saying this can be construed as a complaint thread, but after playing at level 30 for about 4 days now, I just want to give my honest feedback.

The Gorgon is a joke for multiple reasons. First, let me discuss MY OPINION based on ME USING the Gorgon.

I bought the Gorgon, and as soon as I did, I realized that if I were looking to be the optimal character build, I should be using the Gorgon. It hits like a semi auto rifle, shoots like a vulcan minigun, has a 200 round clip for me, and sprays almost like a shotgun when at full speed.

The Gorgon is basically just an excuse to say "Congrats you hit rank 2, now just hold left click and run around."

I since switched the the Snipetron, because I at least have to manage a cip, and aim my shots.

Next, let me speak as someone playing with a group of randoms using the Gorgon.

It completely breaks the fun feeling of the game when I am fighting a boss, and I am sniping at him attempting to get nicely placed shots, and the 2-3 other randoms with me are standing completely still, holding left click at the boss.

No aim. No skill. Not even dodging. Just spraying their giant clip minigun rifle at the enemy.

I realize there was a nerf (LOL) on the Gorgon a few days ago, but it is still a joke. I think the developers need to take a step back and decide if they really want the Gorgon and HEK to be Direct High Level upgrades designed to make veteran players experience easymode.

I welcome anyone's feedback. I just really have tried everything to get it to stop irking me. I stopped using it, and I still have to deal with nothing but group after group of spamming Gorgons with no actual gameplay going on.

>implying that snipertron takes skill.

AMG YOUR EASY GUN IS EASIER THAN MY EASY GUN.

The entire @(*()$ game is easy. Get over yourself.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Aggh

[MaximumComfort]

HEK and gorgon are still too strong. Even without any mods I felt they outclassed other guns, and then when I find mods like this and equip them:

http://cl.ly/image/2C3Z34191m1Q

It just makes everything a joke.

These two guns are too strong. Everyone runs them. If you decide you want to take something that doesnt mow down everything in seconds, you feel useless compared to the damage you used to be able to do, and all the mobs around you are dying too fast to everyone elses gorgon/HEK spam for you to do anything.

[UkyoSonoda]

People seem to be convinced that the MINISCULE loss of burst damage you suffer by using the gorgon someone offsets the ability to spam ludicrously hard hitting rounds for prolonged periods of time.

I notice this mindset in most newer games. Its like people have forgotten that Burst Damage isnt the only form of damage.

Nothing I said in that post has to do with burst damage. It's about effective ranges due to accuracy. In those huge wide open rooms weapons like the braton, latron, snipetron are more ideal because of long range accuracy allowing you to take everything out reliably without having to actually run around as much. However most of the rooms in the ships are rather small forcing combat at ranges ideal to the Gorgon.

Also the Gorgon doesnt hit ludicrously hard with each bullet unless you have good mods attached to it or are running a low level mission with light armored targets.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I notice this mindset in most newer games. Its like people have forgotten that Burst Damage isnt the only form of damage.

*looks at gun*

Now now, Burston, he wasn't talking about you... Don't cry.

EDIT: btw, this thread is growing really quickly..

Edited January 18, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Vegetaryan]

The issue I see from a design side is that the Gorgon doesn't really seem like an LMG since it doesn't have the characteristics or drawbacks of an LMG when compared to an assault rifle. I would replace most of the spread with recoil/kick, "managing" spread isn't a skill, it's letting go of the trigger. Another possibility is to only allow slow walking (ADS speed perhaps) while firing. I know that interferes with the whole jumpy slidy ninja thing but the Gorgon isn't a ninja weapon anyway.

I feel like the devs need to decide what they want the weapon to be. I can think of a couple routes that may help clarify the Gorgon and make it more interesting.

1. M60 - No increasing firing rate, just a constant chugga chugga with hearty kick to keep players on their toes.

2. Gatling gun - More like the TF2 minigun, brief wind up followed by a spray of death. Spread would be more applicable here.

[XAN3MK]

1. M60 - No increasing firing rate, just a constant chugga chugga with hearty kick to keep players on their toes.

I'd go in this direction, with a more chugga chugga approach to the fire rate + instead of spread to get a medium to high recoil on the weapon to make up for the rate of fire. On top of this, I'd add a bit extra dmg and maybe some armor pen, but only a tiny bit to keep the thing within check and with that give the gun some personality, in the sense that it is an anti-infantry/anti-personal gun.

In fact, what I'm going for here is best defined by the Nazi Germany MG42 MG.

[Solvite]

T

The issue I see from a design side is that the Gorgon doesn't really seem like an LMG since it doesn't have the characteristics or drawbacks of an LMG when compared to an assault rifle. I would replace most of the spread with recoil/kick, "managing" spread isn't a skill, it's letting go of the trigger. Another possibility is to only allow slow walking (ADS speed perhaps) while firing. I know that interferes with the whole jumpy slidy ninja thing but the Gorgon isn't a ninja weapon anyway.

I feel like the devs need to decide what they want the weapon to be. I can think of a couple routes that may help clarify the Gorgon and make it more interesting.

1. M60 - No increasing firing rate, just a constant chugga chugga with hearty kick to keep players on their toes.

2. Gatling gun - More like the TF2 minigun, brief wind up followed by a spray of death. Spread would be more applicable here.

This guy gets it.

Nothing I said in that post has to do with burst damage. It's about effective ranges due to accuracy. In those huge wide open rooms weapons like the braton, latron, snipetron are more ideal because of long range accuracy allowing you to take everything out reliably without having to actually run around as much. However most of the rooms in the ships are rather small forcing combat at ranges ideal to the Gorgon.

Also the Gorgon doesnt hit ludicrously hard with each bullet unless you have good mods attached to it or are running a low level mission with light armored targets.

The Gorgon hits harder with each bullet than any other automatic rifle in the game. It fires faster than any other Automatic rifle in the game. It has more bullets in the clip than any other automatic rifle in the game.

The Gorgon is the space ninja equivalent of an M240 with the weight and recoil of an M4.

[Solvite]

I'd go in this direction, with a more chugga chugga approach to the fire rate + instead of spread to get a medium to high recoil on the weapon to make up for the rate of fire. On top of this, I'd add a bit extra dmg and maybe some armor pen, but only a tiny bit to keep the thing within check and with that give the gun some personality, in the sense that it is an anti-infantry/anti-personal gun.

In fact, what I'm going for here is best defined by the Nazi Germany MG42 MG.

Why would you add damage and armor pen? The gun already does more damage than the other guns of its type.

The idea we are suggesting is side grade weapons. People seem unable to let go of the idea that being rank 2 entitles you to a gun that is more powerful than all the others.

If that is the direction the developers choose to take, I will accept it. But my honest feedback is that Sidegrade weapons are better than escalating weapon tiers.

Edited to Add:

I agree with the MG42 reference, that would be cool. But adding Armor Pen to a weapon does not qualify it as an anti-infantry weapon. It just makes to better against Grineer.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Solvite