Jat Kittag In Pvp Could Use A Little Bit Of Nerfing.

[Naftal]

I don't see any point of nerfing it, slam attack roots people, regular swings are slow, unless they jump and slam your head directly, there's no way for you to die. And, well, if you stand and have hammer dropping onto your head, then it is logical it should be one-shot, your head should be slammed inside of your warframe.

The reason to nerf it is that it's strictly superior to other heavies and the slam attack is superior to ALL melees without Jat Kittag having a downside.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Naftal

[rockscl]

Dual swords don't knockdown but staggers on combo where single sword knockdown on slam but no staggers in combo (unless it is a special combo).  

 the last time i played dual skana it did knock down on slam, dex dakra doesnt

[elele]

So apparently the correct way of Kittaging is not brainlessly spamming "Hulk SMASH!" but to knockdown, then follow up with a shot of a high-dmg weapon (Marelok, Sybaris etc.). 

 

I feel dirty every time I did this. 

[Feyangol]

I underestimated this thing.

I played a few games with some mates today and our last 2 games looked like this:

 

1.) Three enemies were using Jatt Kittag and it was a pretty close game.

We won with 40-37 in the end.

 

2.) One of the Jatt Kittag users left and the other 2 changed their weapons and frames. Do you want to guess how we won?

It was a total annihilation of 50-0. We had one death in our team, but we recovered the Oro.

 

Well, it needs a nerf xD .

Edited August 20, 2015 by Feyangol

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

While we are at it, lets remove martial mangetism allready, its so broken mod.

[JonBenj]

Spent an hour in Asia region, playing team annhilation. I joined a match with a rank 4 and a rank 0 versus, 3 Frosts, one with Galatine and the other two with Kittags, Their strategy, knock the player down, and finish with Primary.

 

Note I had the 8 sec invun from knockdown mod, all you need is that first knockdown...

 

Was a slaughter. match ended with 32-14 loss to us, i felt particularly bad for the rank 0 whom i tried to chat with in game to give him/her a strategy.

 

Lessen the AOE damage and radius - and give us back handspring.

 

Games turning into stagger/knockdown and shoot game, You can see the slam attack coming - jump up in the air and you still get animation locked...

Edited August 20, 2015 by JonBenj

[Skaleek]

My problem with it is even if you try to hop away, roll away, whatever, you still take the knockdown and almost 1 shot damage.

[Nighttide77]

Jat's AOE is rather large...  Damage seems fine to me, but the radius is...big...  Even with the buff to default recovery speed in the latest update (17.2), there's still too much room for a knockdown spammer to pull off a couple latron shots after the slam attack.

[Volume]

JK's AoE knockdown is the biggest problem.

And the hit detection is god-awful. I can be in mid-air and they land nowhere near me and I die instantly, or sometimes I'll slam what appears to be an empty floor and kill someone at least 10 "meters" away. But then again, that could be the terrible netcode / lag / etc. But it happens consistently enough that I'd like to blame the weapon.

 

I've been learning to love JK, but I still feel dirty using it. But DE needs the metrics, right?

[Nikbis]

Hi, Jat Kittag user here !
 

JK's AoE knockdown is the biggest problem.

Well there already is a mod http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enguard
Jat Kittag is almost the only thing that will knockdown. The other utility is for stagger.

I'm ok with the one shot slam attack too. The thing for me is, we shouldn't be able to use melee weapon (quick, aerial or slam) while having a gun equipped.
It would force the player to choose between ranged and melee, and give a real purpose to the holster rate mods. No more "Slam -> knockdown -> headshot".

While I'm here talking about melee weapon, another reason I just do slam with my beloved Jatty Kitty https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/458319-huge-decrease-of-melee-weapons-range-since-165/?p=5752466

[SeaUrchins]

The thing for me is, we shouldn't be able to use melee weapon (quick, aerial or slam) while having a gun equipped.

It would force the player to choose between ranged and melee, and give a real purpose to the holster rate mods. No more "Slam -> knockdown -> headshot".

 

I would second the idea of disabling slam or other melee attacks if primary/secondary is equipped. I would also suggest adding the option to melee with rifle butts like grineer do when you are too close to them :]

[Rimuru]

Spent an hour in Asia region, playing team annhilation. I joined a match with a rank 4 and a rank 0 versus, 3 Frosts, one with Galatine and the other two with Kittags, Their strategy, knock the player down, and finish with Primary.

 

Note I had the 8 sec invun from knockdown mod, all you need is that first knockdown...

 

Was a slaughter. match ended with 32-14 loss to us, i felt particularly bad for the rank 0 whom i tried to chat with in game to give him/her a strategy.

 

Lessen the AOE damage and radius - and give us back handspring.

 

Games turning into stagger/knockdown and shoot game, You can see the slam attack coming - jump up in the air and you still get animation locked...

Hmm instead of handspring maybe sure footed could do the trick?

[Feyangol]

We should think about a way to nerf it without to make it useless and without to change the feeling of the weapon.

That means for me:

 

- the knockdown radius can't be reduced (would change the feeling of the weapon)

- a direct hit with the jatt kittag should still be a oneshot (would make it useless)

 

Soo, how about a speed nerf then?

An additional +~30% recovery time from the groundslam would be appropriate imo. That would remove the possibility of directly shooting after the groundslam and also make missed knockdowns a lot more punishing.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Feyangol

[rockscl]

We should think about a way to nerf it without to make it useless and without to change the feeling of the weapon.

That means for me:

 

- the knockdown radius can't be reduced (would change the feeling of the weapon)

- a direct hit with the jatt kittag should still be a oneshot (would make it useless)

 

Soo, how about a speed nerf then?

An additional +~30% recovery time from the groundslam would be appropriate imo. That would remove the possibility of directly shooting after the groundslam and also make missed knockdowns a lot more punishing.

 

sounds useful

[Pate8]

JK's AoE knockdown is the biggest problem.

And the hit detection is god-awful. I can be in mid-air and they land nowhere near me and I die instantly, or sometimes I'll slam what appears to be an empty floor and kill someone at least 10 "meters" away. But then again, that could be the terrible netcode / lag / etc. But it happens consistently enough that I'd like to blame the weapon.

That's probably lag compensation and that means hit detection is probably client-side.

[elele]

Soo, how about a speed nerf then?

An additional +~30% recovery time from the groundslam would be appropriate imo. That would remove the possibility of directly shooting after the groundslam and also make missed knockdowns a lot more punishing.

 

But if the recovery time from the ground slam is slower than the recovery time from the knockdown, then not-a-direct-hit ground slam is a death sentence for the Kittag user. Because the knocked down enemy can quickly get back up and shoot the (still rooted) ground slammer. 

 

If the recovery from ground slam is still faster than knockdown recovery, then it's still easy to spam.  

 

I say only allowing knockdown if Kittag is wielded in hand. So no quick follow-up Latron shot immediately after knockdown. People want to ground slam to knockdown? Then don't allow them to use guns.

[JonBenj]

Enguard is near useless.

 

8 second knockdown immunity resets after you were knockdowned the first time, and shot holes through.

[Lakais]

As I said in an another thread. Option is to keep the massive range and damage. But rework it to function like a Shockwave MOA's stomp. A "slow" propagating wave that knocks over and deals damage. With an added nerf to the attacker "recovery" from the ground slam animation. This type also removes the rather BS aspect of knockdowns in midair

That way it will still reward those head-on accurate hits and better timing to hit enemies with the wave. And makes missed hits dangerous as you'll be spending precious 0.x seconds digging your kitty out of the rubble if the guy you aimed at dodged the wave and is now about to introduce your face to his bullets.

[Haldos]

Thread cleaned up a bit.

Please keep the discussion on topic and the insults to the bare minimum of zero.

 

Much appreciated.

[Feyangol]

As I said in an another thread. Option is to keep the massive range and damage. But rework it to function like a Shockwave MOA's stomp. A "slow" propagating wave that knocks over and deals damage. With an added nerf to the attacker "recovery" from the ground slam animation. This type also removes the rather BS aspect of knockdowns in midair

That way it will still reward those head-on accurate hits and better timing to hit enemies with the wave. And makes missed hits dangerous as you'll be spending precious 0.x seconds digging your kitty out of the rubble if the guy you aimed at dodged the wave and is now about to introduce your face to his bullets.

 

But if the recovery time from the ground slam is slower than the recovery time from the knockdown, then not-a-direct-hit ground slam is a death sentence for the Kittag user. Because the knocked down enemy can quickly get back up and shoot the (still rooted) ground slammer. 

 

If the recovery from ground slam is still faster than knockdown recovery, then it's still easy to spam.  

 

I say only allowing knockdown if Kittag is wielded in hand. So no quick follow-up Latron shot immediately after knockdown. People want to ground slam to knockdown? Then don't allow them to use guns.

These are also pretty good suggestions.

 

Also:

The knockdown radius and dmg could also scale with the height from where you started your groundslam.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Feyangol

[Julietdeltabravo]

this is why pvp isnt popular at all lol and theres 5-10 minute wait times in match making

these people probably never played pvp again after that 

 

because lets be honest who would

[0724FGARK]

^ Pretty much. I'm not touching PVP until they fix that thing. 

 

Just watch this S#&$. 

[Nighttide77]

A shockwave on the Jat...that would be cool to see...in fact, a shockwave for every slam attack would be pretty cool.  Gives a chance to avoid, unless it's on target.

[Nihilum]

nerf nerf nerf.

When every game you join has at least one (usually two people) person with the Jat Kittag, spamming, no body can freaking do anything.

This weapon alone absolutley kills PvP