BaronVonBangin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I read lots of complaints about Mesa, ranging from 'she's too strong' and 'she's boring/makes the game boring.' But wouldn't a lot of those problems be solved if she couldn't sit inside a bubble of invincibility? The whole downside to her 4 is the fact that she can't move at all. She's a sitting target that's trying to kill as much as she can before she herself is killed. Frost completely takes away that weakness and then incorrectly turns people's ire towards the frame getting all the kills. How many farming and camping issues would be solved if there wasn't a massive bubble of 'you can't kill me'? It seems to me Frost is the real reason we aren't allowed to fight against high level enemies. His bubbles are the only thing that are strong enough to counteract the insane damage that high levels put out. If that mechanic didn't exist,wouldn't that damage imbalance be looked into? I don't hate on Frost, but I think his Snow Globe is waaaaaayy strong. It seems to me that since everyone playing with a Frost benefits from his Snow Globe they don't complain since he isn't the one 'stealing' all the kills. What do you think Tenno? EDIT: I would like to clarify, I'm using the Mesa as an example of a Frame that does damage and because she's a popular damage dealer at that. One of my main points of interest with this thread is your thoughts on how invincibility mechanics limit high level enemy damage and the balance of end game content. And what level of damage is considered an acceptable amount by a damage oriented frame/ability Edited September 3, 2015 by BaronVonBangin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The whole downside to her 4 is the fact that she can't move at all. Not much of a downside when she's got Shatter Shield and can kill enemies from the other side of the map. People complain about Mesa because she's got fairly braindead gameplay (hit 4, hold down LMB, kill things) compared to Frost, who was only recently buffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--MZez-- Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Frost has been re-worked so its very nice to play with. Mesa is just fine how she is, they fixed her before cause yeah she was OP, now i dont see the problems they making. its not only her 4th abiltie that is usefull, she has other 3 that can be usefull to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rechot Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Wanna point something out. Limbo has banish, nyx has her absorb, and a trinity can grant the team 75-99% dmg reduction easily a frost change won't hurt mesa as much as you think heres vid i said i would put in Edited September 3, 2015 by rechot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasumi- Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 because frost doesn't stand still and spam "genocide: the button" for multiple waves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not much of a downside when she's got Shatter Shield and can kill enemies from the other side of the map. People complain about Mesa because she's got fairly braindead gameplay (hit 4, hold down LMB, kill things) compared to Frost, who was only recently buffed. This is PRECISELY the issue I have, especially given said 4 overshadows all of her more active and generally more awesome abilities. Personally, I think it needs to become a more active ability to fit with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodSage09 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 then we would just replace frost with limbo/bless trin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminem2420 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 This. Lets say Frost gets a change. So what. Frost will be replaced with something else like Limbo or Nyx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DM-churrok Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 "genocide: the button" available in a movie theater near you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronVonBangin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Wanna point something out. Limbo has banish, nyx has her absorb, and a trinity can grant the team 75-99% dmg reduction easily a frost change won't hurt mesa as much as you think Alright. So don't you think that invincibility abilities might be an issue then? Wouldn't the removable of those abilities promote more active gameplay, rather than sitting in one spot and blowing all your enemies away? You take away one invincibility and another takes its place. Don't they hold back the stupid amounts of damage that late t4 enemies from being looked into since we have those abilities to just turn off damage and call it 'balanced'? Once again. Not hating an any frame or supporting any frame in particular. Just picking brains to see what other Tenno think. Don't hurt me :c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A very small bubble in one place that you have to leave eventually, doesn't get in the way much, leaves enemies gimped but not useless and generally improves defense without breaking the game? Sure, let's compare that to a 50m auto aiming macrobot that requires as much attention than scratching, can force everyone else to twiddle their thumbs for half an hour, locks you in place and is boring in the worst way. That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryme Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Frost makes combat easier for other players. Mesa denies combat for other players. In case you're unclear about where the line is, its when one player pushing their button, means other players don't get a chance to push their own buttons. It's basically the same reason people have complained about 4 spam since close beta. Edited September 3, 2015 by Ryme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD9eR Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 if people are enjoying spamming one key, let em . why all the fuss about mesa anyway ? it's not like it hurts you is it ? if you dont like em just dont use em . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuestenjung Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not much of a downside when she's got Shatter Shield and can kill enemies from the other side of the map. People complain about Mesa because she's got fairly braindead gameplay (hit 4, hold down LMB, kill things) compared to Frost, who was only recently buffed. Are you serious? Pressing 4, without the need to hold another button, to kill everything ( even if it is not in sight ) in 1 sec isn´t braindead? Saryn, Excalibur, Frost only to mention a few can kill faster, more effective and higher level then Mesa is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg_Chen Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Mesa is a problem, lets change Frost! How about, erm, changing Mesa? Why for example is the ultimate only effected by Power and Strength. Adding duration or range (or both) could make her more balanced \ require some actual downsides during modding. Right now you slap Fleeting, Streamline, Intensify and Transient on without ANY downsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Frost is pretty beastly now. I took him into a T2 Def and at W20 he was still ability killing things easily, and the CC was insane. I loved it. I'd play him more, but the slowness...it bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Frost is pretty beastly now. I took him into a T2 Def and at W20 he was still ability killing things easily, and the CC was insane. I loved it. I'd play him more, but the slowness...it bothers me. Bullet jump everywhere you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronVonBangin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Mesa is a problem, lets change Frost! How about, erm, changing Mesa? Why for example is the ultimate only effected by Power and Strength. Adding duration or range (or both) could make her more balanced \ require some actual downsides during modding. Right now you slap Fleeting, Streamline, Intensify and Transient on without ANY downsides. Didn't really make this thread with the intent or say Frost necessarily needs to be changed. I was more curious about how people feel about total invincibility and how that affects the balance of other frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronVonBangin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Frost makes combat easier for other players. Mesa denies combat for other players. In case you're unclear about where the line is, its when one player pushing their button, means other players don't get a chance to push their own buttons. It's basically the same reason people have complained about 4 spam since close beta. So does that mean that damage frames shouldn't be allowed to be a thing? Because they kill things too quickly? Or should damage abilities be more localized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Bullet jump everywhere you go. Makes my fingers hurt. I think my left pinkie is becoming slightly deformed and my spacebar has a bare spot from my thumb hitting it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Makes my fingers hurt. I think my left pinkie is becoming slightly deformed and my spacebar has a bare spot from my thumb hitting it all the time. Equip a Rush mod, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Didn't really make this thread with the intent or say Frost necessarily needs to be changed. I was more curious about how people feel about total invincibility and how that affects the balance of other frames One of Frosts changes was that his Snowglobe now has a health pool. At higher ranked missions, this becomes highly inconvenient, especially with HRoF mobs. Equip a Rush mod, then? Bu-but mah precious build! Why would I drop efficiency, survivability and damage for something as silly as Rush?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Bu-but mah precious build! Why would I drop efficiency, survivability and damage for something as silly as Rush?! Can I gift you an Exilus slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texrei Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 a trinity can grant the team 75-99% dmg reduction easily Really easily? Every freaking 20 seconds you have to hurt yourself with a suicidal or less effective weapon (and not to die), you have to spend slots on Flow and Quick thinking, then you have to replenish your energy after it was drained. And you also have to do something else. Play for example. This is still MASTERPIECE for me. Too hard, too boring to provide permanent damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnthesteak87 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Why do people still open threads like this? Weren't evolution and adaptation the strong points in humankind? Edited September 3, 2015 by Burnthesteak87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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