Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[(XBOX)JasonsNightmare]

But you have to ask yourself: Do I really want a 12h Defense?

 

If it does scale as slowly as you are suggesting, it will mean that the first 6-8 HOURS will be boring as hell.

 

My point is that a 6 hour defense or survival should be possible, and that it should make it easier to get more loot from your keys.

 

As for my comment about achieving anything, the achievement that I was referring to would be a new record on a mission type, or for lasting more than two hours on a survival, etc. Besides, you said it yourself that raids need over-abused meta builds. The Youtuber cookie cutter build comment doesn't really apply, as the mechanics of each new warframe ability are already known and exploited before the frame even reaches the console version, at which point any and every build that can be made has been featured on YouTube.

 

It is not about getting some prized item to drop, it is about not being punished for trying to survive for more than 20 or 40 waves. If you still don't believe that a linear progression will work, or that it is not worth the wait for your "challenge", then why not ask for a higher starting level for your favorite mission type? It would be a bit more productive, and actually synergistic to the solution that I am proposing, as well as the various other solutions proposed on this topic.

[7grims]

I salute you ohhh great one, few people realize that both the options of fixing and not fixing multishot is redundant, specially if DE is going to re-balance so much stuff just for 1 mod.

 

DE shouldn't be lying to them self again nor to us, thinking 1 single mod is going to solve and change the many problems regarding modding.

Serration and all other damage mods, and this does include elements, need to be all removed or replaced/reworked.

There are a ton of options and solutions to recycle those mods into something smarter to help the game overall improve.

 

+1

 

 

The mod system needs a over haul no doubt this is even including frame mods as well

 

OMG yes, so many people I like and would salute in this tread ;)

 

It's like finally ppl are waking up and seeing the third unmentioned option, the one that is the actual solution and fix.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 7grims

[Cookedtoast]

It is too easy to rank up a weapon. Think about it, even a mk-1 braton ith a max serration is OP in early game, and maxing a player's first weapon does not take long. Serration needs to go, yes, but base damage multipliers should come from something else that better correlates to a player's progression in the game (Serration is sort of doing it now, but not very well).

They can still make it level up but make it work with the serration mods we have right now. the most powerful you have will be what the level up system pulls from. It would keep progression and also make it so not every account made will have a maxed out serration but at the same time it'll free up a spot and also make it so they don't need to compensate and also make it not as painful to level up guns.

 

[7grims]

The way I see elementals is they shouldn't add flat damage but change % of damage into elemental. So say your gun does 100 physical damage ( be it 60 from slash, 30 from puncture, and 10 from impact) and you slap that malignant force on it. Instead of +60% toxic damage that would bring you up to 160 damage, of which 60 is toxic... it would change 60% of the damage to toxic and still do a total of 100 damage, but now 24 of it is from slash, 12 puncture, and 4 from impact, and 60 from toxic. Status chance probably remain how it is..

 

Nop nop nop

If the elements mods keep the damage, they always and ever will be part of the problem, they will still say as much as mandatory and in everyone's builds just like nowadays, and nothing is improved.

These mods need to completely loose all damage perks, they should only have the effects, just like icve can freeze them, just like fire can put them on panic animation, radiation makes them shoot each other, even impact makes them knock down. All other element and physical damage mods just need some sort of unique effect to make them all useful, utility like, or add QoL perks.

[Jaruis]

"For some reason."

 

You mean utterly destroying our ammo economy?

Mate are you dyslexic?

You're thinking of multishot. Serration mods don't consume extra ammo

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

Mate are you dyslexic?

You're thinking of multishot. Serration mods don't consume extra ammo

You never did state which mod. Multiple are being talked about here.

[CrazyCatLad]

Eeeeh.. I wanted to know why you was against the dropping of serration and the levelling of innate weapon-damage, you know, where you said:

"I used to be against it, but then the fire nation attacked"

:D

Ohhhhhhhh. I don't remember why.  womp womp.

 

 

EDIT: Probably because it might just cause a mess/hassle. I don't know.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Lanieu

[Jaruis]

You never did state which mod. Multiple are being talked about here.

...what?

This topic is primarily about serration. Anyone who remembered the previous devstreams know that steve's idea of removing damage mods was "horrible"

Talk about multishot somewhere else

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jaruis

[DxAdder]

It's sad the the Number of mandatory Mods is what 7?

 

Split chamber, Serration , Shred, 4 elements, or swap out two elements for Crit chance and crit damage?

 

There is no weapon diversity, weapons are just a mod delivery system.

[ComCray]

You never did state which mod. Multiple are being talked about here.

Nope, never said anywhere this was about the serration/hornet strike mods.. and even the title of this post is totally ambiguous, could be talking about any mod.. hell, this could be about loot detector for all I know...

Dude, really, where have you learned to read? I'd check if I could get a refund if I were you... :p 

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

+1. Serration should be removed and weapons should grow in power when lvling up. Just like frames do

 

I can understand your reasoning behind it, but do realize that this is somewhat of an RPG game where maxing something like Serration is a "rite of passage" for us.

 

What I see is that people would like to have more slots for adding "utility mods" for their weapons, and the real issue is that people feel that 2-3 slots of every weapon are being occupied by "mandatory" mods.

 

The real issue here is not enough slots to put all the mods we want on.  So, rather than removing something that I feel is quite rewarding and part of game progression (I know many people don't like the grind, but personally I'm very happy about maxing an R10 mod), why don't we simply add more slots?

 

I don't like the idea of weapon strength based increasing levels.  If people think that the grind for serration is too much, I hope they realize that we only have to max serration once (or twice if they want it for their sentinels), however if they think DE is going to simply give us the strength of a maxed serration from leveling a weapon from 0-30 the way it's done today on a weapon I'm sure that won't be the case.

 

Imagine having to grind EACH and EVERY weapon for 30 days (the approximate time it takes for semi-active player to level as serration ) just to max the damage on one weapon.

 

Sorry, but for this game where we have hundreds of weapons to choose from (which is awesome), I'd hate to spend 30 days or even 5-10 days just working on a single weapon.  I'd rather have damage mods that I've maxed from my efforts to be put into weapons that I've leveled as it's being done today.

 

More slots...  let's try that instead of taking away an integral part of this game's progression.

 

EDIT:  I just want to point out that this is simply my opinion.  I don't need someone to convince me my opinion is wrong, etc...  We're all allowed our own chance to discuss our feelings/thoughts on things here.  I'm not writing any of this to disrespect or challenge, the OP or anyone else here.  (lol, sigh...  we have to write disclaimers on our posts. now...)  If anyone disagrees with me, please do so, but stay classy.

Edited September 8, 2015 by sushidubya

[CarrotSalad]

I'm already running ammo mutation (and primed mutation) on a lot of guns I like using, cause they have terrible ammo economy. 

When multishot will end up eating more ammo, those guns (bullet hoses) that I like will have no place. Not only Mutation will be mandatory but a lot of restores will need to be built (so resource for them need to be farmed) - this complicates stuff a bit too much.

 

I've been trying to avoid these multishot threads but.. I decided to unlock a few nodes on pluto today (solo) and doing 1 defence mission to wave 5 with the supra that had a rank 3 ammo mutation mod. I was already down to 35x ammo at wave 5. I would've ranout of ammo had i tried to make it to wave 10. Concerning indeed :/

 

But i think its still too early to comment on such a change. We did'nt hear it from Scott directly so theres no context into exactly how its going to proceed.

 

Personally i would rather see them make polarity diversity on a weapon have an effect on the stats of the mods on the weapon. For example 1 v, 1 D and 1 - polarity will have an effect of 120% of the mods stats. But if you run 3 V mods 25% of the stats from all 3 V mods are reduced. Though i have'nt thought through this idea.

[ss4chris]

Please just stop with those useless threads there are already like 100 of them just reply in one of em ...nothing is certain yet so chill and wait until more info is out will ya

people are allowed and will continue to voice their opinion. who are you to say for them to stop?

[ss4chris]

I mean mods like Serration, Hornet Strike, Heavy Calliber and Magnum Force and MAYBE Elemental ones.

 

Before you start flaming, read me out:

 

DE seems to be planning to get make changes of the "Mandatory Mods", and it seems Multishot will be the first to change, a long while ago (1 year I believe) it was suggested in Feedback that straight damage mods be taken out of the game and the damage put directly into the Weapon as it levels.

 

As for the Elemental Mods, maybe if it copied the half of the Weapon damage and the % be changed to stats chance?

Exemple:

 

Hellfire will copy half of your weapon damage to Fire and the Rank up will increase the % of the stats chance.

 

So, if your gun does 1000 damage, putting a Fire mod of any level will add 500 Fire damage no matter the rank of the mod. And at max rank it adds +50% Stats chance.

 

If you use Fire+Eletrict you will have 500 Radiation Damage (It wouldnt make the Fire weaker) and +100% Stats chance.

 

Maybe if DE was able to give us a choice if we wanted to combinate the Elemental mods or not, so we could have Dire and Radiation in the same build.

 

As for the Dual Stats Mods can change add the Element, 40% Stats Chance like it does and maybe something like magazine size? ... they will be triple Stats mods then.... Maybe if each element added something else? Fire Added mag size/range, Toxic added reload/holster/drawn speed, Eletric added fire rate/attack speed, Cold added crit chance or damage.

 

This is a very raw idea I had mind you.

 

They would have to take a look at enemy scaling as well. And we dont know if they are doing that with the Multishot changes as well.

honestly instead of changing the mods just change the way enemies/ factions are. or scrap everything and start from scratch.

[Dizzle22]

I don't understand why the "mandatory" mods are considered such a big issue by the forum goers. The loudest complainers are no doubt the community here. I'd be curious what the player base at large thinks. Maybe we need an in-game voting/polling system or something.

 

I agree that this nerf is going in a bad direction, for what it is worth.

 

Even if they removed all the damage and multi shot mods, and ideally buffed damage across the board to compensate, the players would just find new "mandatory" mods. EG: adding all four +90% elements, until those get nerfed at least....

 

That is to say, there would always be very popular build combinations that basically everyone used anyway.

 

I don't see an issue with the current system. It does not bother me one bit, for example, that the first mod I put in every rifle is Serration. Or that pistols automatically eat three slots for Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, and Lethal Torrent. Not once, in playing since U12 has this ever even been a thought that crossed my mind as being an issue.

 

All this will do is punish people who max-ranked those mods and spent time and formas getting their favorite weapons built just how they wanted them. This will also further limit weapons that are considered "end-game viable"

[ss4chris]

No, you don't. You go from having 1 required mod to one optional mod.

no you go from having 1 required mod to 2-3 required mods for 1 previous mandatory mod.

[Tsunero]

Most people doesn't want it since nobody will buy "doesn't work as intented" after 2 years. DE will force it on us anyway...

[FaintestAura]

I would suggest that instead of multishot, DE remove Serration and put damage into leveling the weapon instead. It frees a slot for the needed ammo mutator, retains the damage, and gives people without Serration the feeling of progress as they level the weapon, even if they don't have the 'required mod'.

If a change has to be made to any of the "mandatory" mods, this is something I would be okay with. It is a shame that whilst leveling, an unranked weapon does as much damage as when its rank 30. Ammo mutation mods will just fill in for multishot if this continues. 

[Dizzle22]

Not the greatest way to present the question, but I still voted no. Poor form, I know, but let me copy paste what I said in another thread and I'm done:

 

I don't understand why the "mandatory" mods are considered such a big issue by the forum goers. The loudest complainers are no doubt the community here. I'd be curious what the player base at large thinks. Maybe we need an in-game voting/polling system or something.

 

I agree that this nerf is going in a bad direction, for what it is worth.

 

Even if they removed all the damage and multi shot mods, and ideally buffed damage across the board to compensate, the players would just find new "mandatory" mods. EG: adding all four +90% elements, until those get nerfed at least....

 

That is to say, there would always be very popular build combinations that basically everyone used anyway.

 

I don't see an issue with the current system. It does not bother me one bit, for example, that the first mod I put in every rifle is Serration. Or that pistols automatically eat three slots for Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, and Lethal Torrent. Not once, in playing since U12 has this ever even been a thought that crossed my mind as being an issue.

 

All this will do is punish people who max-ranked those mods and spent time and formas getting their favorite weapons built just how they wanted them. This will also further limit weapons that are considered "end-game viable"

[mellojoe]

I just fear that losing Multishot means losing elemental Status builds.  Which means less diversity overall, and less weapons used. 

[Bizzaro21]

Slow down, hotshots. 

Its not a mandatory mod, you're welcome to replace with anything you wish. 

If you dont see a popup such as "Unable to join the mission. SERRATION mod is not equipped on your Lanka.", then it's not mandatory.

irrelevant, you will join, and get rekt, with full elements and crit and everything but serration, soma wouldn`t exceed 300 per bullet on some lvl 40 grineer, so yea, it is mandatory, just an unwritten law

[Bizzaro21]

eeeh, I was talking "mandatory mods". Wasn't talking about anything you mentioned here. 

As for what you mention, I would gladly discuss that another time in another thread, but not here...

actually, heavy caliber is a mandatory mod as well, it has everything serration has to offer, but with a little penalty, all my guns use it but snipers, so it seems a bit mandatory, but that is just me, I think.....

[immolator1001]

Ya they should just make it so the gun gets more damage the higher level it is, equal to serration at max level.

[Artekkor]

To those who are saying "don't like - don't use it" there is a simple answer.

WHY WOULD I? Currently this mod as necessary as serration. Why would i give up x2 damage multiplier for no reason?

The thing is: i won't. This mod is good. In fact: too good.

But after the change i won't have to use it all the goddamm time. Just like that piece of crap called Heavy Caliber.

I LOVE MY ACCURACY GODDAMNIT.

Besides: i just REALLY want to see what DE will do to compensate.

Science curiosity is the best curiosity!

[EmptyDevil]

Instead of scaling back the power, they should simply start developing new and more challenging content. T5? Sentient Missions... whatever.

 

After doing 200+ T4 Missions Im honestly starting to get a tiny bit bored.

 

Creating new harder stuff instead of taking the time to rebalance or nerf things is a step toward ruining a game.