The Heart Of The Problem: Some Mods Will Always Be Mandatory

[low1991]

Ammo type is specific in BL2.

 

You can't change weapon loadout mid-fight currently in Warframe, but Warframe has ammo mutation mods and team ammo restores. It also has the issue of letting player's with OP weapons play against noob enemies and kill them with one bullet. If you ever run out of ammo in Warframe, you are terrible.

Ammo mutation = consume a mod slot & mod capacity.

Ammo restore = doesn't scale according to equipped weapons. (problem)

@underline, you'r referring to WF or BL2? For WF: you'r suppose to 1-shot noob enemies with higher advanced weaponry. otherwise what's the point of Mods?

I run out of ammo, so am i terrible? Oh i forgot, you must be using those meta weapons with high damage per ammo efficiency. I'm using Ignis the opposite of yours.

 

Edit: add W to the unknown F

Edited September 6, 2015 by low1991

[Dillon_J]

You spoke like PVP side of WF is balanced.

 

The main problem is the level scaling (Health, Damage, Armor or whatever it is!)

At higher, we will be doing damage reduced by Armor, and further only tickle their overall health!

Thier damage is what squeeze us towards Top-tier DPS. Shorter Combat Window = much safer.

good job reading only the first sentence of what i typed........

 

 

Extensions. Animations just got changed.

lol

[-Judgement]

I cant help but notice that what is supposed to be constructive feedback seems mostly to be 2 tenno going back and forth.

[(PSN)MikeCopa]

Starting with enemy scaling is the ONLY correct, logical way to go. Starting with anything that revolves around this broken core is nonsensical, misguided and a waste of time and resources.

 

+ 100000000000000000

[Rebellis]

 

Ammo mutation = consume a mod slot & mod capacity.

Ammo restore = doesn't scale according to equipped weapons. (problem)

 

I didn't say these were good things to have in a game. In fact, I think they're the opposite and show poor judgement by the developers on how to balance/scale weapons vs enemies.

 

@underline, you'r referring to WF or BL2? For F: you'r suppose to 1-shot noob enemies with higher advanced weaponry. otherwise what's the point of Mods? I run out of ammo, so am i terrible? Oh i forgot, you must be using those meta weapons with high damage per ammo efficiency. I'm using Ignis the opposite of yours.

 

What's the point of sniper rifles and shotguns if any weapon with enough forma and mods can one shot enemies in the mission?

 

Just blow through it with a 5 forma Amprex, hurry back to the ship, and get back to the important stuff like fiddle with color schemes.

 

At some point, the game shouldn't allow you to play against beginner level enemies, otherwise what's the point of progressing.

[jinsaotomex4]

Ammo type is specific in BL2.

 

You can't change weapon loadout mid-fight currently in Warframe, but Warframe has ammo mutation mods and team ammo restores. It also has the issue of letting player's with OP weapons play against noob enemies and kill them with one bullet. If you ever run out of ammo in Warframe, you are terrible.

The Borderlands series has a mechanic that is infinitely better than forcing ammo mutation on players.  Ammo (and grenade!) loot drops are prioritized based on the amount of ammo you have left. If you have under 50% of your maximum ammo the chances of finding ammo for that weapon type from boxes and enemies goes up significantly. In Warframe you're forever stuck getting rifle and pistol ammo 99% (hyperbole) of the time. Also, Borderlands gives players large ammo pools for most weapon types. So running SMGs is viable since you aren't bound to paltry levels of max ammo.

[ProfessorZero]

A while back lots of people described Warframe as similar to ME3, we got 4 guys, lots of the same game modes, weapon system that has some of the same mechanics (mods). But then that went away, and I think part of that is the amount of mods we currently have. In ME3's multiplayer, there's a skill tree for determining what sort of bonus you weapon damage will receive. Additionally weapons get stronger as you rank them up, the mods you are allowed to install are limited to 2 and it works acceptably well. 

 

Now i'm not saying we have that or should have that, what I am saying is that we have an overabundance of mods. There are currently 500+ mods, which is incredibly excessive. How the hell are you supposed to even possess all those mods, let alone know all of them and what they do. Yes we have mandatory mods, but that could be fixed by something as simple as the guns ranking up in damage by themselves, or maybe some form of skill tree, with the mods and cut down in both scope and size. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

no. its real easy just make all mods in pve like pvp mods. (how they shouldve been from the start.) Then a lot of enemey rebalancing. Only problem is well this kind of stuff takes time.

 

You realize that the pvp mods are all effectively meaningless, right?

[IggySnow]

The whole problem is that they are trying to balance and make the game better by doing stuff like the multi shot change in small steps.

You can't do that, you have to do it all at the same time or else everything in between is a salute hell.

[Fifield]

The whole problem is that they are trying to balance and make the game better by doing stuff like the multi shot change in small steps.

You can't do that, you have to do it all at the same time or else everything in between is a salute hell.

 

This is a reasonable hypothesis but I would argue that this leads to a lot of imbalance.  You need to have a very good idea of where you're going but it is possible to do a bit at a time.  This leads to less QQing too.

[IggySnow]

This is a reasonable hypothesis but I would argue that this leads to a lot of imbalance.  You need to have a very good idea of where you're going but it is possible to do a bit at a time.  This leads to less QQing too.

Problem is doing it a little at a time is what leads to the rage like what's happening now with multi shot.

Your making a major change to something everyone uses without addressing any of the other similar things or the root of the problem.

[Fifield]

Problem is doing it a little at a time is what leads to the rage like what's happening now with multi shot.

Your making a major change to something everyone uses without addressing any of the other similar things or the root of the problem.

 

This forum is full of rage all the time.  I'm not seeing much difference TBH.

 

For once, there are legitimate reasons to be concerned.  DE's thinking on this doesn't look sound:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/523934-modframe-and-why-ordinary-nerfs-to-mandatory-mods-wont-increase-mod-variety/

[Magnulast]

There are a ton of solutions, and even a handful of solutions that are perfect and viable to solve everything.

There is only one solution, never ever multiple.

[Phatose]

The simplest solution would simply be to explicitly call it the "Module system" in at least one place in game.  Mandatory modifications are a problem.  Mandatory modules are not, and this is a player psychology problem.

[Angary]

They are probably going to put another stupid mod slot on weapon like exilus, so you can grind or pay to get that slot for something like ammo capacity, reload speed, zoom distances etc, then forma the crap out of ALL your weapons.

[CrystalRibbon]

I prefer the enemy scaling fix suggestion.

Without those broken enemy scaling, the need to mod for more damage will be a lot lesser then people will then look for other ways in modding rather than just mod for full damage leaving no room for utility mods. 

 

I feel that the people who suggested the "mandatory" mod change are the one who wants more challenge in the game, its not a bad idea but starting at that aspect without looking at the other aspects of the game will create more problems than fixing it,or it wont change anything even.

 

but really,unless DE changes that. damage mods like multishot/serration are always mandatory on mission with high scaled enemies.

Edited September 7, 2015 by CrystalRibbon

[Reaver_X]

lol if they change multishot mods to what they said they would, i think im gonna be done with wf for a while, the whole point of the multishot mod is that its a rare mod that basically doubles your damage. Making it use up more of your ammo pool to give you more burst dps would only make it into an illusion of having more damage.

[Urlan]

Basically, as some players have said, a more expensive fire rate mod. I think the proposed change is a bad one, enemy scaling has to be addressed first before removal or nerfing the tools required to deal with those same enemies.