Real Talk: The Anti-Fun Rhetoric Permeating Warframe Updates.

[CDelacroix]

Why is it that, despite having such an incredible game with WF and a talented team at DE, we constantly get these changes that serve no purpose other than to annoy players?

 

Lights (perfect example, though they were thankfully removed.)

 

Nullifiers (annoying, but understandable. Until it takes 5? shots with your sniper rifle or bow just to remove its bubble.)

 

Manics (what is the purpose of these? They aren't fun, and they serve no real purpose other than to annoy players.)

 

Survival (instead of making frames such as Nekros mandatory, why not imeplement what you're trying for as a new game type rather than killing something that players actually enjoy?)

 

Multi-shot nerf (we all know that if you'd intended for this to take extra ammunition, it'd have done so a long time ago. Nobody wants this, particularly when, realistically, it's only going to serve to remove two mod slots instead of one (or three instead of two, in some cases.))

 

These are just some of the more major examples that come to mind. As stated, additions such as the Nullifier and the upcoming Grineer (whose name escapes me right this moment) do make sense to a certain degree, even if they aren't particularly well implemented.

 

While my intention isn't strictly to beat a dead horse, I feel that this is a discussion that needs to happen. If you look at these updates and changes, or "fixes," there is a pretty clear trend showing itself, and it is a trend that isn't pretty.

 

 

EDIT: For those of you rushing to be the first to reply rather than taking the time to actually comprehend what you read, I am talking about game changes. When I refer to survival, I'm not talking about how it is right now, considering it was reverted (for good reason.)

Edited September 8, 2015 by CDelacroix

[tinyranitar]

Manic is actually pretty fun. You can always prevent its encounter by turning off the alarm.

[EmptyDevil]

Please stop creating new multi-shot threads. We already have a megathread for it that you can include the rest of this message in.

[VocalMagic]

Manic is actually pretty fun. You can always prevent its encounter by turning off the alarm.

I freakin' love manics. They're one of the things that actually scare me in the game.

And I've fought, and killed, Stalker with MK1 Strun. Unranked, even!

[CDelacroix]

Manic is actually pretty fun. You can always prevent its encounter by turning off the alarm.

 

There's nothing fun about invincibility frames and OHKOs.

 

Please stop creating new multi-shot threads. We already have a megathread for it that you can include the rest of this message in.

 

"OMG I SEE SOMETHING TALKING ABOUT MULTISHOT! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!"

[Kestral9999]

Why is it that, despite having such an incredible game with WF and a talented team at DE, we constantly get these changes that serve no purpose other than to annoy players?

I highly doubt that's even part of a portion of a reason that they're implementing these subjectively "annoying" features.

 

Lights (perfect example, though they were thankfully removed.)

Lolwutm8 I thought Lights were pretty important for seeing and stuff.

 

Nullifiers (annoying, but understandable. Until it takes 5? shots with your sniper rifle or bow just to remove its bubble.)

That's why you should have a high RoF weapon on your secondary. Or just melee them. They're not particularly hard to kill inside the bubble.

 

Manics (what is the purpose of these? They aren't fun, and they serve no real purpose other than to annoy players.)

They're meant to encourage teamwork and to make you watch your back when you hear their cackling. Remember, fun is subjective. I personally like them and have never had any issues dispatching them.

 

Survival (instead of making frames such as Nekros mandatory, why not imeplement what you're trying for as a new game type rather than killing something that players actually enjoy?)

Nekros isn't mandatory for Survival. I've run over an hour many times without a Nekros in the group.

 

Multi-shot nerf (we all know that if you'd intended for this to take extra ammunition, it'd have done so a long time ago. Nobody wants this, particularly when, realistically, it's only going to serve to remove two mod slots instead of one (or three instead of two, in some cases.))

I think it was left functioning only half properly because it was kind of a grace to the community, like coptering. Yeah, they could have nerfed fixed it long ago, but they decided against it for whatever reason.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kestral9999

[MagPrime]

I'm assuming you mean the Arc lights.  At first, I thought they were awesome and realistic there were just too many of them.

 

Manics are fun, Nekros isn't mandatory (I haven't seen one in a Survival in months) and I don't care about the multi-shot situation - things are still dying quickly and I'm still getting the same stats I was before.

 

It may be "anti-fun" to you, but to others, it's not. 

[peekitea]

Nullifters can be annoying when you don't have a high fire rate weapon. Most of the time I just blast the nearest enemy who is outside of the bubble, that way the nullifer goes down too, but I don't always bring my Tonkor for this. I most of the time just rush in as fast as I can with my beef frame, go pop-pop, and go back towards my teammates. 

 

Manics can be annoying when you do not have Frost or someone else who can avoid them. But after battling them you learn to be patient enough to just dodge around them and then shoot. I have also noticed the ones on the Tyl Regor boss battle are slower, but I am not sure if anyone can confirm this.

 

Survival. It's a bit boring, but what you want to be doing in my opinion is running around killing as much as you can and popping life support after it hits 40%. If you do this, in most cases, you should be fine, even if the life support drops are horrible, which in most cases they are. (This does not include if you bring Nekros)

 

Multi-shot nerf sounds just bad. I am not sure why anyone would want this, but whatever it is that floats their boat. Most of my guns are going to take a hit on ammo. We have ammo reserves but they use the same mechanic as the other restores- it restores ammo over time. I don't like standing around when being shot at, so unless I am using Frost or have one in my party (Or volt if I am pressed against the wall) I will not fancy having to rely on restores. I mean, you can rely on drops but....rifles have a lot to fill up, and even if you are using a shotgun or something with less ammo, you are going to still be dependant on those drops when you hit 35 minutes in a T4 survival. Or we can all just use Opticor too. Unless they change almost all the weapons ammo capacity. I think a gun like Soma will need well over 500 round in it. 

 

To be honest I am not sure what is going on with DE this time around. Maybe they feel they are not doing "enough".

[CDelacroix]

 

Nekros isn't mandatory for Survival. I've run over an hour many times without a Nekros in the group.

 

 

I really wish people would actually read before rushing to click the 'post' button.

 

 

 

I'm assuming you mean the Arc lights.  At first, I thought they were awesome and realistic there were just too many of them.

 

Manics are fun, Nekros isn't mandatory (I haven't seen one in a Survival in months) and I don't care about the multi-shot situation - things are still dying quickly and I'm still getting the same stats I was before.

 

It may be "anti-fun" to you, but to others, it's not. 

 

Lights were fantastic. Until you got killed at spawn before you even loaded into a game. Or when they were impossible to dodge because they spawned directly behind a door.

 

There's nothing fun about manics and most people agree with me on this.

 

Survival: reading comprehension is good.

 

'Anti-fun' is subjective until most people agree with it, which coincidentally, they do.

Edited September 8, 2015 by CDelacroix

[EmptyDevil]

There's nothing fun about invincibility frames and OHKOs.

 

 

"OMG I SEE SOMETHING TALKING ABOUT MULTISHOT! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!"

 

[Rexlars]

Why is it that, despite having such an incredible game with WF and a talented team at DE, we constantly get these changes that serve no purpose other than to annoy players?

 

Lights (perfect example, though they were thankfully removed.)

 

Nullifiers (annoying, but understandable. Until it takes 5? shots with your sniper rifle or bow just to remove its bubble.)

 

Manics (what is the purpose of these? They aren't fun, and they serve no real purpose other than to annoy players.)

 

Survival (instead of making frames such as Nekros mandatory, why not imeplement what you're trying for as a new game type rather than killing something that players actually enjoy?)

 

Multi-shot nerf (we all know that if you'd intended for this to take extra ammunition, it'd have done so a long time ago. Nobody wants this, particularly when, realistically, it's only going to serve to remove two mod slots instead of one (or three instead of two, in some cases.))

 

These are just some of the more major examples that come to mind. As stated, additions such as the Nullifier and the upcoming Grineer (whose name escapes me right this moment) do make sense to a certain degree, even if they aren't particularly well implemented.

 

While my intention isn't strictly to beat a dead horse, I feel that this is a discussion that needs to happen. If you look at these updates and changes, or "fixes," there is a pretty clear trend showing itself, and it is a trend that isn't pretty.

 

All of these are simply opinions. A.) I thoroughly enjoy Manics. & B.) @Mutlishot: Coptering says hello. 

[Hypernaut1]

What a misguided OP. How could you possibly think changes are made to "annoy" players?

Any changes that is made is to make thr game more entertaining.

Your post is the equivalent to child saying "mom wants me to eat my vegetables just to make me mad. We should be getting moar candy! Not less"

Edited September 8, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Kinetos]

Manic, when they came out, felt too strong. Then they were nerfed a little and felt just right. Then they were nerfed again and combined with getting used to them they are just too easy now.

[CDelacroix]

What a misguided OP. How could you possibly think changes are made to "annoy" players?

Any changes that is made is to make thr game more entertaining.

Your post is the equivalent to child saying "mom wants me to eat my vegetables just to make me mad. We should be getting moar candy! Not less"

 

 

Or I'm exercising objectivity rather than blind loyalty. That works too. But please, tell us more about how you'll take anything and everything DE says as gospel rather than thinking for yourself.

[Kestral9999]

I really wish people would actually read before rushing to click the 'post' button.

 

 

 

 

Lights were fantastic. Until you got killed at spawn before you even loaded into a game. Or when they were impossible to dodge because they spawned directly behind a door.

 

There's nothing fun about manics and most people agree with me on this.

 

Survival: reading comprehension is good.

I still have no idea what you're referring to with the Lights bit. 

 

And you cannot state that "there's nothing fun about manics and most people agree with me on this". Just because it is a common complaint does not mean that the complaint is instantaneously given validity. This is an example of the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, meaning just because people agree with you doesn't make your argument factual.

 

If you view challenge as the antithesis to fun, I can see why your perspective prevents you from finding these enemies "fun". They exist to provide challenge.

Or I'm exercising objectivity rather than blind loyalty. That works too. But please, tell us more about how you'll take anything and everything DE says as gospel rather than thinking for yourself.

You're actually exercising rather vapid personal subjectivity more than anything else. And being incredibly punitive whilst doing so.

 

I foresee a lock coming to this thread.

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

The multi shot threads are getting out of hand.

[Hypernaut1]

Or I'm exercising objectivity rather than blind loyalty. That works too. But please, tell us more about how you'll take anything and everything DE says as gospel rather than thinking for yourself.

If you think that the devs made changes just to "annoy" players- you are far from having anything resembling an objective opinion.

And I would gladly tell you why I trust the devs of their OWN GAME that I choose to play.

[PapaFragolino]

Most of the annoying features are just bandaid "solutions" to much bigger problems:

 

-Powers are incredibly overpowered? Make enemies that nullifies powers

-Weapons and mods are incredibly overpowered? Make enemies with invicibility frames

-Camping is too efficient? Nerf the life support drops

 

That's just how DE works, that also makes you wonder if other than the passion for this game they also have the capability to develop it. That may sound too harsh, but DE is always making the exactly same mistakes, over and over again, and they're not showing any sign of learning anything from them.

 

With that said, I love this game and I hope to see more quality content.

[CDelacroix]

Most of the annoying features are just bandaid "solutions" to much bigger problems:

 

-Powers are incredibly overpowered? Make enemies that nullifies powers

-Weapons and mods are incredibly overpowered? Make enemies with invicibility frames

-Camping is too efficient? Nerf the life support drops

 

That's just how DE works, that also makes you wonder if other than the passion for this game they also have the capability to develop it. That may sound too harsh, but DE is always making the exactly same mistakes, over and over again, and they're not showing any sign of learning anything from them.

 

With that said, I love this game and I hope to see more quality content.

 

Thank you. I'm glad somebody here seems to get it.

 

 

 

 

I still have no idea what you're referring to with the Lights bit. 

 

And you cannot state that "there's nothing fun about manics and most people agree with me on this". Just because it is a common complaint does not mean that the complaint is instantaneously given validity. This is an example of the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, meaning just because people agree with you doesn't make your argument factual.

 

If you view challenge as the antithesis to fun, I can see why your perspective prevents you from finding these enemies "fun". They exist to provide challenge.

 

Reddit logic and thinly-veiled insults does not a good post make. Nor does apparent ignorance regarding game mechanics.

Edited September 8, 2015 by CDelacroix

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

Or I'm exercising objectivity rather than blind loyalty. That works too. But please, tell us more about how you'll take anything and everything DE says as gospel rather than thinking for yourself.

Oh look, another person on the internet that can't understand that some people have different opinions. Your entire post is opinion and nothing more, wrapped up in nice 'almost everyone agrees with me...except fanbois' blanket.

Try learning to have a discussion without being insulting and maybe some folks who have good things to add to your topic will take you more seriously.

Anyway, here is what I think: Nullifiers and Manics are fun to fight against. I do think the multi shot needs to be looked at because, we all use them on all our weapons (I'm not super sure that having them consume ammo is the answer, though...but I'm willing to check it out).

Does DE do things I don't like? You bet. They also do a lot exactly right, so I give them some leeway. Do I trash anyone with a different opinion than mine? Nah, man...cuz that's just sort of immature (and not in the good way).

[Vargras]

"I don't like this thing, so it's definitely anti-fun".

 

That's this topic summed up. Just because you dislike something, doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's "anti-fun". Plenty of people greatly enjoy Nullifiers and Manics. Not only that, but an edit chastising people for replying too fast and "not comprehending" what they read? Hah.

[jlocke4]

I personally cannot wait for the multishot nerf, itll be nice to have a bit more downsides to these "mandatory mods". Manics are not annoying they very rarely OHKO me, and nullifies can be easily dealt with by a melee or auto side arm. If you dont like the changes dont play the game.

[angias]

Multishot change will affect the gameplay in a way that will force the player to adapt.

This will create variety. those who will use multishot will fight in a more high risk high reward gameplay.

It's just a higuer firerate effect.

This will moslty affect rifle with high amo consumption.(will i have finaly the right to use the grakata soma?)

 

Maniac....they were men't to be a threat. a lvl 100 maniac is simply exciting.

Edited September 8, 2015 by angias

[angias]

There's nothing fun about invincibility frames and OHKOs.

 

 

"OMG I SEE SOMETHING TALKING ABOUT MULTISHOT! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!"

Why should he be raging?? Spending more amo will be an interesting change.

 

Invincibilility frames.....there is just so many thing you might be hating about this game.

[angias]

I'm op but i'm happy about the multishot change.