Let's Talk Duplex Triggers.

[SlightVect]

I'm just going to get straight to the point. "Duplex Triggers are garbage and a failed mechanic." Allow me to show the main reason why.

 

They're uncomfortable as hell. Instead of firing one shell then whippin' the ol' boomstick around to blow someone's dome off, you fire both at once OR You're forced to do the uncomfortable gimmick of holding down the mouse until you find another victim.  

 

 Now here's a solution: Make the standard firing button fire one barrel while middle clicking fires both.  Innovative, truly. 

 

 

Consider your mind blown.

http://i.imgur.com/caVnDWv.gif

 

 

Edit:Guys, stay on topic. We're talking about the Firing Mechanism. Not Ammo Economy, Damage or anything of the sort. There's a reason why a majority of people don't like the Duplex Auto, let's try to find a way to FIX the blasted thing and make it more acceptable. DE has said they're not removing it, so let's propose proper fixes in response. 

Revision ideas from Thread

 

In real life, double-barreled shotguns I've seen have had two separate triggers, one for each barrel. Perhaps this could be carried over into Warframe by having primary fire control the right barrel and alt-fire control the left barrel. The weapon would essentially have two separate magazines. This could be paired with a shell loading reload mechanic like we see on the Strun. This would both fix the problem of walking around with the trigger held and give the player much greater control over their weapon.

 

 

I think they should just reverse the way duplex works. tap for one, hold for two. All they'd have to do is switch the gun to an automatic fire weapon in their coding and leave the name as is. BAM instant semi-realistic duplex trigger.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Pometheus

[ClockworkSpectre]

This would be a much better what to handle it.  Its one of the reasons I don't like the Tigris.  May as well make use of the fact they finally separated secondary fire from zoom. 

[stoybot]

Scott claimed the firing mechanic is here to stay. I too notice the finger strain after using the Tigris for a while. One way I make using the weapon bearable is installing a rank 2 Ammo Stock for 3 shots per magazine. You can blast a group of enemies with the dual shot and finish off whoever's left standing with the 3rd one.

[Trichouette]

I have no problem with holding my click for 2 sec, seriously are you a PC gamer or what ?

I even wish sybaris had the same mechanic.

[SlightVect]

Scott claimed the firing mechanic is here to stay. I too notice the finger strain after using the Tigris for a while. One way I make using the weapon bearable is installing a rank 2 Ammo Stock for 3 shots per magazine. You can blast a group of enemies with the dual shot and finish off whoever's left standing with the 3rd one.

 

The fact we need to make a bandaid fix for something so fundamentally bad is saddening. 

[LABAL]

I agree. Since when annoyance is a game mechanic?

[SlightVect]

I have no problem with holding my click for 2 sec, seriously are you a PC gamer or what ?

I even wish sybaris had the same mechanic.

Duplex Auto on a rifle with 10 shots that fires 2 shots per tap? Pardon me? 

[Trichouette]

Duplex Auto on a rifle with 10 shots that fires 2 shots per tap? Pardon me? 

To shot only 1 bullet at a time ?

 

The fact we need to make a bandaid fix for something so fundamentally bad is saddening. 

"fundamentally" lel.

It's not because YOU don't like it that it's bad, nor that the whole warframe community find it bad / don't like it.

[SlightVect]

To shot only 1 bullet at a time ?

 

"fundamentally" lel.

It's not because YOU don't like it that it's bad, nor that the whole warframe community find it bad / don't like it.

Evident troll. Dismissed. 

[LABAL]

I have no problem with holding my click for 2 sec, seriously are you a PC gamer or what ?

I even wish sybaris had the same mechanic.

That is because you have a reliable mouse. A mouse that you can reliably rely on. And you probably don't move around too much, right? It gets stuck, occasionally.

Evident troll. Dismissed. 

 

That statement appears to be true.

Edited September 16, 2015 by LABAL

[Trichouette]

Evident troll. Dismissed. 

Wow amazing. Because i made a point you don't consider my argument ? Now that's a mature way to deal with conversation.

 

That is because you have a reliable mouse. A mouse that you can reliably rely on. And you probably don't move around too much, right? It gets stuck, occasionally.

Well my mouse is a cyborg rat 5 which is... 5 years old ? i think...

It's pretty old and the middle click is almost ded.

But even when i play with another mouse which is... sh*tty, i don't see any problem with holding my click.

And what do you mean by "don't move around too much" ? You mean in game or regarding the mouse & its pad.

[LABAL]

 

Wow amazing. Because i made a point you don't consider my argument ? Now that's a mature way to deal with conversation.

That

"fundamentally" lel.

is a dead giveaway.
 

And what do you mean by "don't move around too much" ? You mean in game or regarding the mouse & its pad.

I mean both. As in: mouse cord gets worn out in time no matter what. And the game itself tends to forget the state of held keys.
And no, nobody else likes Tigris firing mechanics, as evidenced by countless forum threads.

[Trichouette]

 

That

 

is a dead giveaway.

I was just making fun of the fact you can't say it's something "obviously bad", especially when DE chose to use it.

Thanks anyway for calling me a troll, it reminds me how internet people are... special.

 

 

I mean both. As in: mouse cord gets worn out in time no matter what. And the game itself tends to forget the state of held keys.

And no, nobody else likes Tigris firing mechanics, as evidenced by countless forum threads.

 

I bet you're another guy having problem with duplex auto & sprinting, but i can be wrong.

Since i know perfectly how the duplex auto works i have absolutely no problem like "the game tend to forget the state of held keys". This statement is false.

And i don't understand what you mean by "mouse cord gets worn out in time no matter what" (you know... not english and stuff)

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

In real life, double-barreled shotguns I've seen have had two separate triggers, one for each barrel. Perhaps this could be carried over into Warframe by having primary fire control the right barrel and alt-fire control the left barrel. The weapon would essentially have two separate magazines. This could be paired with a shell loading reload mechanic like we see on the Strun. This would both fix the problem of walking around with the trigger held and give the player much greater control over their weapon.

[SlightVect]

In real life, double-barreled shotguns I've seen have had two separate triggers, one for each barrel. Perhaps this could be carried over into Warframe by having primary fire control the right barrel and alt-fire control the left barrel. The weapon would essentially have two separate magazines. This could be paired with a shell loading reload mechanic like we see on the Strun. This would both fix the problem of walking around with the trigger held and give the player much greater control over their weapon.

I thought about that myself. Imho (Which doesn't matter much since I'm one dude and all) that's how it should have been done in the first place.  I don't understand why DE had to over complicate something so..Simple. 

[Sintag]

As a guy who uses the Tigris, I must say, if you're looking to ease finger strain, you can reload after the first shot, cancelling the secondary shot if you've taken everything in an area down.

 

Given it's long reload, doing this mid-combat is...Ill-advised, to say the least.  Reload-cancel again if symmetry is a concern.

[Bryntwulf]

I think they should just reverse the way duplex works. tap for one, hold for two. All they'd have to do is switch the gun to an automatic fire weapon in their coding and leave the name as is. BAM instant semi-realistic duplex trigger.

[ArbitUHM]

If I don't have two targets then I hold LMB and immediately hit reload to cancel the second shot. If you're holding down LMB long enough that you're experiencing finger strain, you probably should have reloaded. Or you know, if it's causing you pain, just fire off the second shot and drop an ammo restore every now and again?

 

Really though I don't see what the issue was with using alt-fire for single shots.

[taiiat]

having both Duplex-Auto and another mode would make the Weapon the most flexible. as (presumably Semi-Auto) and Duplex-Auto one up each other pending the current Combat situation.

that will not be happening, but oh well.

Duplex-Auto on Sybaris would be very nice though, and i'll continue to back that as a good thing, as i have done in the past.

would also be beneficial to have on Kraken...

if/when Miter has more Ammunition availability, Duplex-Auto and Charge would work well to allow to spam a bunch of Blades or Charge a more powerful shot. would make spamming easier to do.

having the option for Duplex-Auto on Semi-Auto Secondaries can't hurt. i don't personally want it, but it can help those that want to be clicking less with said Weapons.

Edit:

tap for one, hold for two.

that could work quite well. Edited September 16, 2015 by taiiat

[bubbabenali]

OMG having the beastliest boomstick in the game isn't enough. Pls remove the only downside DE and add autoaim too.

[Hatzeputt]

Duplex trigger is a useless gimmick since it wastes more ammo than it safes because when things get a little more intense you tend to not hold the button. I have yet to see a single player executing it somewhat decent and not unleashing double blasts at least every other reload cycle.

 

On the Sybris it is even more useless, since you very soon run into enemies that can no longer be killed by single shots and you need the double shot anyways. There is also no need to conserve ammo since the overall reserve is big enough. It is a much better tactic to slot Shred or Metal Auger and try and make use of that punch through instead aiming for each targets separately. It would only help against low level enemies and if low level enemies threaten you, you are doing something wrong.

 

So instead of ruining stuff for your personal strange little taste do the sensible thing drop the "I am a special snowflake and I am always right because mom told me so!" act and accept that some things are just dumb especially if 9 out of 10 people tell you so.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[theammostore]

I think they should just reverse the way duplex works. tap for one, hold for two. All they'd have to do is switch the gun to an automatic fire weapon in their coding and leave the name as is. BAM instant semi-realistic duplex trigger.

In order to get the quick shots that the Tigris can do with duplex trigger, you'd have to have one hell of a quick tap. You'd see people waste just as much ammo if not more because of that.

 

I'm just going to get straight to the point. "Duplex Triggers are garbage and a failed mechanic." Allow me to show the main reason why.

 

They're uncomfortable as hell. Instead of firing one shell then whippin' the ol' boomstick around to blow someone's dome off, you fire both at once OR You're forced to do the uncomfortable gimmick of holding down the mouse until you find another victim.  

 

 Now here's a solution: Make the standard firing button fire one barrel while middle clicking fires both.  Innovative, truly. 

 

 

Consider your mind blown.

http://i.imgur.com/caVnDWv.gif

Oh no, I can't roll/reload/melee to cancel the second shot, whatever am I going to do.

 

It's not that hard, and even if you end up wasting a shot, so what? You'll get your ammo back quick enough unless you can't aim to kill enemies. It's not tough, it's not in the least bit tough to make this thing work.

 

Duplex trigger is a useless gimmick since it wastes more ammo than it safes because when things get a little more intense you tend to not hold the button. I have yet to see a single player executing it somewhat decent and not unleashing double blasts at least every other reload cycle.

 

On the Sybris it is even more useless, since you very soon run into enemies that can no longer be killed by single shots and you need the double shot anyways. There is also no need to conserve ammo since the overall reserve is big enough. It is a much better tactic to slot Shred or Metal Auger and try and make use of that punch through instead aiming for each targets separately. It would only help against low level enemies and if low level enemies threaten you, you are doing something wrong.

 

So instead of ruining stuff for your personal strange little taste do the sensible thing drop the "I am a special snowflake and I am always right because mom told me so!" act and accept that some things are just dumb especially if 9 out of 10 people tell you so.

So instead make a hek with half the clipsize? Yeah, because we need even more complaints of diversity on these forums. If you haven't seen people using it right then you aren't playing with the right people. If I can be arsed to care about a wasted shot, then i can aim it properly. If I can't then who cares, it's one shot that i'll get back and then some every couple of kills thanks to how shotgun ammo drops. And, since I can kill things in generally one shot, that means I'd need to consistently get no shotgun drops for 11+ enemies in order to start to hurt my ammo economy.

Edited September 16, 2015 by theammostore

[theammostore]

double post

Edited September 16, 2015 by theammostore

[Raidrak]

In real life, double-barreled shotguns I've seen have had two separate triggers, one for each barrel. Perhaps this could be carried over into Warframe by having primary fire control the right barrel and alt-fire control the left barrel. The weapon would essentially have two separate magazines. This could be paired with a shell loading reload mechanic like we see on the Strun. This would both fix the problem of walking around with the trigger held and give the player much greater control over their weapon.

I just can't understand how they went for an awkward take on double-barreled shotguns. 

 

In real life boomsticks works by two different methods: 

 

Two triggers - Where the gun have actually 2 triggers, one for each barrel and is the common take on video-games, that good old boomstick that everybody knows, the one that can shoot each shell individually or both shells at same time for maximum power and a powerfull kick.

 

SST - The Single Selective Trigger, modern boomsticks implements this, it works basically by alterning the barrels with the inertia of the shots, you still can shoot both shell in quickly sucession but, of course, can't do a double barrel shot as the old method.

 

People can even like the duplex-auto, and I doubt DE will change anything, but still it is an awkward gimmick for a gun that normally uses a much more common, and less odd, trigger mechanic in other games. Nowadays the two-trigger model would be a much more viable model for the Warframe's Boomstick than the odd duplex-auto, a simple click for a shot and a secondary click for both, simple and efficient.

With SST tigris would have a very quickly firerate, but then the magazine size would be a problem with people being able to build quad shot tigris, wich rinders this method impossible. BTW 4 shells from two barrel is one of the most awkards things in the game.

 

I'm aware of the die-hard fans of duplex-auto and how protective they are, but c'mon, even if you are one of these you know how awkward that method is.

[HAYABU5A]

one question for consideration

 

"would u be ok with a dmg reduction to tigris weapons and the duplex trigger removed? or keep the current stats and also keep the current uncomfortable firing mechanism ?"