Melee Still Not Viable In The Late Game

[VoidNomade]

Marlee was never meant to viable. Scott said as much ages ago. This isn't one of those games where you can reliably close and murder a guy with s gun.

 

Scott also said shotguns would never get a buff.^^

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Scott also said shotguns would never get a buff.^^

I don't remember him saying never, just that he wasn't going to at the time or anytime soon, at that moment. The Dev's have said that nothing is off the table.

[VoidNomade]

I think it was a dev stream half year ago. It was a community question if shotguns would get a buff.^^

 

I would really like to know though when scott said that melee was never be planed as viable.^^ I kinda can´t believe that he said that. Also what do you mean with "The Dev's have said that nothing is off the table.". Is this pointed to specially to shotguns or in general?

[(XBOX)lolyman21]

Well i did an excal build exalted blade in t2 survival. Putting down lvls 30+ really quicklly

[(PSN)MrNishi]

When you compare the amount of guns that works in lategame, unrelated to any frame - and compare them to the amount of melee weapons that works in lategame unrelated to any frame.. doesn´t you guys find any correlation to the statement that melee weapons are not as strong as guns in lategame?

This right here is the issue.

Unrelated to any frame: meaning no abilities used and no defensive mods equipped

Guns triumph over melee

Just the way it is.

But players do not choose a Warframe and not use the abilities nor mod for combat effectiveness given the Frames attributes.

If you look at high armored Enemies with no Corrosive Projection, the amount of viable weapons against lvl 80 plus enemies dwindles.

Parry system needs a rework to allow finishers to be accessed by more Warframes.

Most of the frames that have access to Finisher setup also can access the 400% stealth melee modifier.

Ash, Valkyr, Banshee, Equinox, and Excalibur.

Loki, Mirage, Vauban, and Oberon are other Frames that can easily access 400% stealth melee modifier.

(Throwing a Glaive weapon or shooting the Redeemer is a good way to test 400% stealth melee modifier)

DPS for melee is hard to compare against weapons.....

Melee almost always loses out to Guns with sustained damage aside from no longer having stamina(ammo) issues

But Burst Damage is where melee can shine

Archwing is a great example of melee being on par if not better than guns.

Any Warframe that sets up an AoE finishers or Justice Blast proc....allows for a team to exploit Covert Lethality on any single dagger weapon. (Can be very effective if paired with Arcane Trickery for late game survival)

The Warframe augments that greatly increase Finisher damage: Radiant Finish and Savage Silence allow any high base damage melee weapon to be late-game viable due to sheer damage.

Ragdoll melee weapons and stances can kill late-game due to 1-hit RNG kill ragdoll tendency and also Ragdoll-airborne crit chaining (Still present on PS4 build 17.1.4, so I assume it is still present on PC)

Easy Ragdoll chaining weapons: Brutal Tide Sparring, Seismic Palm Fists, Shattering Storm Hammers

Ragdoll chaining just needs a resilent Warframe or CC/invisibility*

The rest of the melee weapons can still be used to either be built for Stun-lock(Tonbo/Serro are great), raw damage for Melee finishers, or swag.

Melee in this game usually focuses on single target or small groups, while guns take out a line of enemies and launchers clear mobs.

When a melee weapon shows a damage number of millions or billions....it is hard to say that a gun has higher DPS because it may take some guns their entire ammo pool to equal that 1 single Over-health-kill number.

In the case of high-level Armored enemies strong melee weapons and Covert Daggers won't be matched by guns.

Gaussian Curve: Extreme ends of the scale

Unfortunately Melee is either too inefficient with Mob clearing compared to guns & will 1-shot finisher kill enemies when Guns are no longer viable.

Not sure how we can have a happy medium, unless base melee reach is extended to 15-25meters: a'la Dystany Warriors Style

[shadowstormr]

I was a melee only player, and by that i really mean melee only cause my mouse was broken and i couldn't aim. I have 400k+ kills, 100k on the tonbo alone. Maybe 300k of my kills come from melee. I loved it. But as i have progressed further into the endgame, i find melee to be inefficient. Sure upto 1 hour melee damage is relevant but only if you use specific frames built for melee. It's a ninja game, ninja's love melee, but it seems most ninjas here stick to ridiculous assault rifles and quad-barreled shotguns more. Also a ninja has a dual pistol power that eviscarates everything. Is there a melee counter-part for said ninja ? Excal doesn't really put out as much dps as mesa does despite his ult being energy melee.

 

Using energy to up the damage is a crutch mechanic. It's idiotic, stupid. I've never used channelling and when i have, i've been disappointed from the outcome. 

 

Here's the thing, I'm taking the risk of rushing head on into crowds that'd like to tear me apart and my pals who are cowering behind a globe is better off than me in terms of dps. It's not even like I can make the crowd aggro towards me more and thus filling a niche cc role.

 

Very few melee weapons are viable late game, and that's only when you're using expensive mods or melee specific frames, the weapons themselves are lackluster. 

 

It's a game, realistic assumptions that guns beat swords every time is moot here. I'd play cod/bf otherwise, let this game be great through it's the variety of fun it can offer ! Although the recent drama with vulklok kinda makes me feel that's not what devs want. Diminishing returns from using varied builds is un-fun and off-putting.

 

And if this game wants to be like every other rpg game where specific classes are good for specific playstyles then i'll be thoroughly disappointed. I want to melee with vauban.

[Illamonati]

OK first off... I mean melee in general not very specific frame-melee combos.

 

2nd it should be RISK/REWARD

meining since u have to get in close and tank damage, you should be able to kill stuff faster.

 

For now the risk of getting in close is not worth it if you consider that you can just gun down stuff from a save distance using ranged weapons AND do more damage in the process.

 

If melees had inate lifesteal or shield regen that would be a start.

 

On the other hand rifles being more powerful than melee is kind of realistic... so idk

[Moghul]

Just because it's less OP doesn't mean it's not viable. Nothing actually compares to tonkor except maybe the Sancti Tigris.

[shadowstormr]

Well i did an excal build exalted blade in t2 survival. Putting down lvls 30+ really quicklly

takes me 2 seconds to put down a lvl 103 heavy with eb + blind. EB doesnt qualify as melee weapon as it's a frame specific ability, i can't eb with vauban.

OK first off... I mean melee in general not very specific frame-melee combos.

 

2nd it should be RISK/REWARD

meining since u have to get in close and tank damage, you should be able to kill stuff faster.

 

For now the risk of getting in close is not worth it if you consider that you can just gun down stuff from a save distance using ranged weapons AND do more damage in the process.

 

If melees had inate lifesteal or shield regen that would be a start.

 

On the other hand rifles being more powerful than melee is kind of realistic... so idk

exactly, also ninjas in space, realism is not what we want here. We want fun.

 

Not saying i want a machine-sniper to do my work for me, that's not fun.

Edited September 17, 2015 by shadowstormr

[Illamonati]

takes me 2 seconds to put down a lvl 103 heavy with eb + blind. EB doesnt qualify as melee weapon as it's a frame specific ability, i can't eb with vauban.

exactly, also ninjas in space, realism is not what we want here. We want fun.

 

Not saying i want a machine-sniper to do my work for me, that's not fun.

 

Agreed... if Star Wars tought us anything then that:

 

1. Prequels are bad

 

and 

 

2. Melee is best way of fighting in a futuristic setting.

 

End of discussion ;)

Edited September 17, 2015 by Illamonati

[Gilmaesh]

"Fury" mod should affect finisher like fire-rate mods do on bows

 

Yeah i agree to that

On a side note i would also like the melee multiplier to stay up a bit longer like 1 or 2 sec more.

 

And i'm waiting for the enemy and damage rework.

 

edit : yep it seems they just changed the finishers speed, that's great

Edited September 18, 2015 by Gilmaesh

[Kinetos]

Check patch notes...

[BluelitHalo]

Try doing this challenge with a primary/secondary weapon without cheesing it with frames like Loki.

Other examples:

^

Melee is plentifully viable, but you need a very specific build to pull off the playstyle. For example, Eternal War Valkyr with Rage and Life Strike on melee essentially has infinite HP, for as long as she keeps swinging away. Great DPS from the increase in swing speed too.

However, I agree that melee in general shouldn't need such specific builds to be viable.

Edited September 17, 2015 by AzureEmulation

[(PSN)supersocc11]

Good thing we have a more melee focused frame coming up!

[shadowstormr]

Agreed... if Star Wars tought us anything then that:

 

1. Prequels are bad

 

and 

 

2. Melee is best way of fighting in a futuristic setting.

 

End of discussion ;)

my brother from another mother and father : )

 

 

edit: or sister :p

Edited September 17, 2015 by shadowstormr

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

I definately think they sould just outright buff a large percentage of the older melee weapons to make them late game viable. So many beautiful artistic designs, so many usless wastes of forma and catalists that it's sad.

[Plorf]

I don't like how they nerfed blocking. It's basically ruined now. The damage reduction is not reliable and the energy drain when channeling is downright unusable.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

This is a space ninja game. And ninjas in space don't operate like ninjas from 13th century japan. If you want 13th century Japan and use melee weapons for everything there are games for that. Lol

[5H4DE]

The problem with melee is that the risk is too high while the reward is none compared to using a gun from cover . That needs to be changed .

[Naftal]

Since people are saying you need to use specific frame to be able to melee, tell me what frame can't melee.

[Blaqsailens]

I only play melee. I love going into battle with my Volt Prime with 175% power strength and my Scindo Prime with berserker and Cleaving Whirlwind. Melee is completely viable in late game.

[Moghul]

I am confused why people have problems with only specific frames being able to melee only effectively. Well, of course it's only some of them. It takes tankiness or great CC. Why would you want to melee with gorram banshee?

[Naftal]

Why would you want to melee with gorram banshee?

Because she has very strong damage boosts and good CC for meleeing.

[Wolfdoggie]

Are you actually using more than just the default combo? 

They generally deal better damage so if you're just spamming E forever then it might be your problem. Blind Justice's Destined Path and Cleaving Whirlwind's Broken Bull wreck everything for example.

I generally like melee more than guns and haven't found myself stopped by any level of mobs but I mostly play frames like Ash, Chroma and Loki most of the time. 

[Moghul]

 

Because she has very strong damage boosts and good CC for meleeing.

 

Yes but she's also made of wet toilet paper.