Unbalanced Conclave Items U17.8

[Guest]

This thread's only purpose is to list Conclave items that are in (desperate) need of re-balancing for the next Hotfix/Patch/Update.

 

 

General:

 

Black Energy color on Warframes and weapons (this isn' t an item, but is capable of making specific weapons and Warframes unbalanced) - has been addressed in U17.5 but only for Team Annihilation, yet

 

 

 

Weapons:

 

(Dual Kama - damage too high?)

 

Furis & MK1 Furis - damage too high (mainly because of Puncture damage advantage) - addressed in U17.10, needs feedback

 

Karak - damage slightly too high (compared to other automatic rifles, especially Karak Wraith) - addressed in U17.10, needs feedback

 

Kulstar - damage and/ or AoE radius too low - addressed in U17.5, still too low

 

 

 

Mods:

 

Iron Shrapnel (Augment) - damage too high or "just too useful/ easy to use for the benefits" - addressed in U17.10, needs feedback

 

Final Harbinger (Stance) - DPS too high (for example see: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/534976-unbalanced-conclave-items-u178/?p=6218355) 

 

 

Warframes:

 

Frost Prime - base stats too high, passive Ability - addressed in U17.10, needs feedback

 

Oberon - "Smite" projectile is able to land critical hits, while it shouldn't be - extremely reduced damage since U17.5, might be "fixed"

 

Rhino - "Stomp" Ability does too much damage and/ or slow-down effect too strong

 

 

 

 

 

Please post other items, I will include it in this list. Or just respond to keep this thread on top, if you want these items to be fixed ASAP, too.

 

 

To Conclave development team:

 

Please take the communities complaints into account for the upcoming balance fixes/ improvements.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Note: This is Version 3. The list was "introduced" at the end of U17.4.5

Edited November 6, 2015 by Pun-chee

[rockscl]

Frost prime, nerf the passive at least

Edited September 29, 2015 by rockscl

[Bizzaro21]

while I agree, I see that Latron is missing its deserved slot, wraith mostly, it has way more fire rate than others with equally effective damage due to puncture base on all of them, which is the reason I find all latrons in need of a tone-down to damage, as their base type already gives them an edge over armor, 3-4 shots on armored frames, with 4 rounds/sec fire rate on prime, it will kill valkyr in 3 secs or so if they are all landed.....

 

 

 

also, the staff is called amphis not amprex

Frost prime, nerf the passive at least

^

[Guest Pun-chee]

Frost prime, nerf the passive at least

 

Added, thanks!

 

 

while I agree, I see that Latron is missing its deserved slot, wraith mostly, it has way more fire rate than others with equally effective damage due to puncture base on all of them, which is the reason I find all latrons in need of a tone-down to damage, as their base type already gives them an edge over armor, 3-4 shots on armored frames, with 4 rounds/sec fire rate on prime, it will kill valkyr in 3 secs or so if they are all landed.....

 

To be honest, I didn' t see anyobody else mentioning Latron in it's current state.

 

 

also, the staff is called amphis not amprex

 

Oops, edited. Thanks!

[Nighttide77]

Please add Kulstar to this list. Seems most everyone realizes it's been nerfed to the ground and it would be nice to have it be viable and balanced for an AOE.

[Guest Pun-chee]

Please add Kulstar to this list. Seems most everyone realizes it's been nerfed to the ground and it would be nice to have it be viable and balanced for an AOE.

 

Added, thanks!

[DrBorris]

Just want to comment on Glaive quick.

 

I do think it should be possible to "one shot" with glaive using the bounce/explode trick. The slow travel time, long charge, inability to hold charge, and reduced movement while charging makes it a high risk weapon (especially when compared to bows). However, its explosion radius is way too big. Glaive should be a skill based weapon, not a spammed explosive.

[Guest Pun-chee]

Just want to comment on Glaive quick.

 

I do think it should be possible to "one shot" with glaive using the bounce/explode trick. The slow travel time, long charge, inability to hold charge, and reduced movement while charging makes it a high risk weapon (especially when compared to bows). However, its explosion radius is way too big. Glaive should be a skill based weapon, not a spammed explosive.

 

Yeah I think most of the players would agree. Edited, Thanks!

[Bizzaro21]

To be honest, I didn' t see anyobody else mentioning Latron in it's current state.

here, me and I have seen it a lot, but not as a main topic, just a side topic that branches from the regular balance discussions

Just want to comment on Glaive quick.

 

I do think it should be possible to "one shot" with glaive using the bounce/explode trick. The slow travel time, long charge, inability to hold charge, and reduced movement while charging makes it a high risk weapon (especially when compared to bows). However, its explosion radius is way too big. Glaive should be a skill based weapon, not a spammed explosive.

nerf the AoE as much as u like, u won`t see me blocking your way to that, just leave the regular throw and normal attacks as they are :)

[Guest Pun-chee]

here, me and I have seen it a lot, but not as a main topic, just a side topic that branches from the regular balance discussions

 

I know this thread. And by the looks of it, the player who complained was clearly outnumbered by the players who saw another cause of his problem.

 

Don't get me wrong, please. It's not because I mainly play with Latron. It's just that Latron series has had a lot of balancing/ re-balancing in the last patches. And also and more important, since the latest balance pass there were almost no complaints about it anymore.

[Bizzaro21]

I know this thread. And by the looks of it, the player who complained was clearly outnumbered by the players who saw another cause of his problem.

 

Don't get me wrong, please. It's not because I mainly play with Latron. It's just that Latron series has had a lot of balancing/ re-balancing in the last patches. And also and more important, since the latest balance pass there were almost no complaints about it anymore.

some of the comments after page 1 were actually opposing/neutral ^^

 

and I don`t flame it because u kill me a lot with it, if someone actually sprays aims this good, they deserve a kill, and I have hated DE`s balancing of it since first buff, at the very start it was perfect, 5-6 shots on armored frames, 4-5 on normal ones, after all it is a rapid firing rifle, should be a bit more longer to get a kill with it, also, I have had instance of being at 47 HP on rhino prime, and dying from one shot, on mag or zephyr I wouldn`t mind that they are squishy as heck, but ironically they take less damage per shot due to low armor >.> so it mainly wrecks armored ones due to puncture, and wrecks light ones due to its high base damage, also, if it got a base damage reduction to 50 or so on prime, and 45-40 on wraith, that would be great, as it would still do good damage on armored frames and will suffer on shielded ones, you know, a bit of specialization, IMO all weapons should have their specialty, no weapon should be good on all sides regarding resistance to it (shields, health and armor are all done-for against puncture, shields got their reduction nerfed, health has nothing, and armor is vulnerable)

 

there you have it, the reasons why I hate all latrons, well, TBH, I usedwraith while they were last buffed (where prime got to 70 o.o) and I will admit it wasn`t easy, but it wasn`t hard either, I`ll go for skill-taking, but the damage didn`t require me to keep it aimed for long, with such RoF, I slapped on hydraulic gauage, 3 shots when crosshair contacts target, and we are done

now it is not so different, 4 shots instead of 3

[Kontrollo]

Rhino's Iron Shrapnel and Stomp should have their damage lowered a bit or be adjusted in some other way: Discussion here.

Oberon's Smite projectiles shouldn't be able to headshot (not sure about their base damage): See here.

 

 

Edit: typo

Edited September 29, 2015 by Kontrollo

[Guest Pun-chee]

-snip-

 

We could create another thread to discuss Latron in it's current state. Let's keep this one on main topic. Though, if I will become outnumbered in this one, I will add Latron to this list.

 

 

Rhino's Iron Shrapnel and Stomp should have their damage lowered a bit or be adjusted in some other way: Discussion here.

Oberon's Smite Projectiles shouldn't be able to headhot (not sure about their base damage): See here.

 

 

Added, Thank!

[Bizzaro21]

Rhino's Iron Shrapnel and Stomp should have their damage lowered a bit or be adjusted in some other way: Discussion here.

Oberon's Smite Projectiles shouldn't be able to headhot (not sure about their base damage): See here.

I agree on all except stomp, it has long cast animation and cannot be used airborne, so u need to literally stand grounded for 3 secs, tho the slowdown to movement and melee should go, it is too much, percentage and duration, and if player gets it while meleeing, they are as good as dead, glaive took like 6 seconds to throw it with stomp active on me >.>

[Bizzaro21]

We could create another thread to discuss Latron in it's current state. Let's keep this one on main topic. Though, if I will become outnumbered in this one, I will add Latron to this list.

this is not necessary, people will defend it to continue using it, just like they did with kittag and many other exploits, just that they were too obviously broken so they got nerfed (badly btw, kittag now is pointless for normal hits, and still unfair in jump attacks [compared to other weapons]), this one, people say these are "balanced", and it didn`t surprise me when I saw that most of them use it :/

 

again, it is just my thoughts, DE need to consider damage types when balancing weapons, Latron now is fairly balanced on shields as it has a good base damage, but to make it so, armor is suffering, get the idea? weapons should have specialization to them, as a final solution to the meta that we have here, now it is even worse with the latest melee nerf, now melee is limited to a few weapons, and I don`t wish to see primaries get that, by either making one of them too strong, or most of them too week.....

 

for example, if a gun has impact base, it will figure its way through shields with a low base damage, but on health it will suffer, armor resists it, and flesh has a negative to it

same should be with puncture and slash, puncture weapons only good for armored health, and slash ones good for un-armored ones

Edited September 29, 2015 by Bizzaro21

[elele]

Please don't nerf Bo Prime anymore. It has already become completely useless since copter removal. 

[Kontrollo]

I agree on all except stomp, it has long cast animation and cannot be used airborne, so u need to literally stand grounded for 3 secs, tho the slowdown to movement and melee should go, it is too much, percentage and duration, and if player gets it while meleeing, they are as good as dead, glaive took like 6 seconds to throw it with stomp active on me >.>

 

But that's exactly what the ability is for, imho. Slow your enemies down so you can try to finish them (it costs 100 energy after all). As you say, it has some drawbacks: you need to be on the ground and the animation isn't all that fast. Also, the shockwave expands radially, it's not instant.

 

I think if you're perceptive enough to stop meleeing when a Rhino does it, you shouldn't be locked in place by it because of the animation and expansion delay, so that should be ok. It shouldn't oneshot squishy frames, however.

[Bizzaro21]

Please don't nerf Bo Prime anymore. It has already become completely useless since copter removal. 

yea right, now at least it can kill, but it is too good at it, DE`s balance: either too strong or too week....

 

 

But that's exactly what the ability is for, imho. Slow your enemies down so you can try to finish them (it costs 100 energy after all). As you say, it has some drawbacks: you need to be on the ground and the animation isn't all that fast. Also, the shockwave expands radially, it's not instant.

 

I think if you're perceptive enough to stop meleeing when a Rhino does it, you shouldn't be locked in place by it because of the animation and expansion delay, so that should be ok. It shouldn't oneshot squishy frames, however.

I think it is supposed to be a killer power, we already have enough pointlessness embodied in volt and his ult, and enough bulls**t on frost`s ult....

 

also, I don`t melee rhino`s, but glaive throw is considered a melee attack, which I use all the time when a guy is still, so it practically is too much, also, it is indirectly a killer power now, u slow down everyone and shoot them down, a bit like frost`s ult, except that they can fight back

 

well, squishy frames IMO should be one-shot, as most of them have good/troll powers (slash dash, mind control, absorb, shield polarize with augment, list goes on)

[Kontrollo]

yea right, now at least it can kill, but it is too good at it, DE`s balance: either too strong or too week....

 

 

I think it is supposed to be a killer power, we already have enough pointlessness embodied in volt and his ult, and enough bulls**t on frost`s ult....

 

also, I don`t melee rhino`s, but glaive throw is considered a melee attack, which I use all the time when a guy is still, so it practically is too much, also, it is indirectly a killer power now, u slow down everyone and shoot them down, a bit like frost`s ult, except that they can fight back

 

well, squishy frames IMO should be one-shot, as most of them have good/troll powers (slash dash, mind control, absorb, shield polarize with augment, list goes on)

 

I guess we have to agree to disagree here. Reasons:

• No squishy Warframe has an unconditional oneshot power anymore, but it's ok for a tanky Warframe to have one?
• The defining feature of Stomp in PvE is that affected enemies get frozen in time, that should be somewhat reflected in PvP as well, imho. And as you say, you can still fight back against it. I'd say the old Warcry was worse than Stomp is in that respect. (Also let's not bring Frost into this, his 4th is definitely more annoying.)
• As I said above, stop meleeing when you see a Rhino starting a Stomp, of course that includes Glaive throws. With the two delays (animation, expansion) that ability has, I don't think the slow-down is unfair in itself.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Kontrollo

[Guest Pun-chee]

Edited to include the "Black Energy issue" because it indirectly creates unbalanced items.

[JeyciKon]

Edited to include the "Black Energy issue" because it indirectly creates unbalanced items.

 

easy solution for it: all enemy get red~orange abilities and team-mates get blue~green abilities.

 

btw, all lex series need a buff.

Edited September 29, 2015 by JeyciKon

[Guest Pun-chee]

btw, all lex series need a buff.

 

Yes, surely Lex Prime look's pretty weak compared to Marelok for example. Don't know about AkLex, though.

 

I'm thinking about to divide the list into "urgent" and "regular". We can't expect to have them all fixed in the next update. So I thought we maybe keep the list more tight to have the obvious imbalances more shine out.

 

 

Talking about secondaries. How is the DPS of Wraith Twin Vipers compared to others? Can anybody say something about it?

[Kontrollo]

I, P, S / fire rate / magazine / reload / accuracy

 

Viper: 15.4, 2.6, 7.7 / 14.38 / 14 / 1.1 / 15.4

Twin Vipers: 8.2, 1.4, 4.1 / 25.00 / 28 / 2.0 / 8.7

WTV: 13.0, 1.6, 1.6 / 25.00 / 40 / 2.0 /11.1

[JeyciKon]

Talking about secondaries. How is the DPS of Wraith Twin Vipers compared to others? Can anybody say something about it?

 

its weaker than twin grakatas.

now that you talk about it looks like the normal vipers and normal twin vipers need a buff.

 

Edit: kontrollo was faster :/

Edited September 29, 2015 by JeyciKon

[Kontrollo]

its weaker than twin grakatas.

now that you talk about it looks like the normal vipers and normal twin vipers need a buff.

 

Edit: kontrollo was faster :/

 

Well, I didn't say anything about their performance because I don't know.

 

But while we're talking about underperforming weapons: I haven't touched the Sicarus and Sicarus Prime since I did the burst fire weapon tests. I don't know if they got touched again - has anyone used them since or are they still weak (Sicarus) and a joke (Sicarus Prime)?