On The Efficacy Of The Implementation Of A Universal Loot Magnet For All Tenno And The Repurposing Of Carrier For Improvement Of Companion Diversity

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

Hey, what's up. First thread, late at night while writing this, ignore grammar/spelling, take it easy on me, and remember to be civil and stuff. We're all friends here. Okay? Okay.

 

 

Alright, lately there's been some talk between players and devs about the possibility of sharing Carrier's Vacuum precept with other companions, and whether this would be a benefit or a detriment to the quality of the game, whether this would encourage players to switch between companions more often or just make Carrier universally undesirable and devoid of unique or redeeming traits.

 

To many it's apparent that Carrier is the most ubiquitously used sentinel by far, and whether this is a problem and how the devs should go about solving it remains a heated topic for many, but to me, the answer to our problem is obvious:

 

All Tenno should have an inherent loot magnet by default

 

 

Consider the following: Why is Carrier so popular? Because, where most sentinels offer only occasional power uses that fit into separate niches and playstyles (Such as Shade befitting a stealthier playstyle where Wyrm is more aggressive), Carrier's Vacuum is always active, and more importantly, it helps players with arguably the most abundantly important task in the game: Collecting loot and energy

 

At what point are players not collecting resources when they get the chance? It's a compulsory inconvenience without Vacuum to streamline the process. Vacuum frees players to simply rush by loot and focus on the game itself, without fear of missing any resources or energy orbs along the way. Where you'll occasionally thank Wyrm for knocking that group of enemies down, or Shade for giving you a stealthy approach, you'll always be glad you won't have to spend time running around stepping over every resource with Carrier's help.

 

 

 

Thing is, collecting loot within 3-5-ish meter range isn't a convenience worth devoting an entire companion's function to. However relieving it is, it's a very basic, very mundane upside that just bandages the issues with loot collection that shouldn't be there to start with. Issues pertaining to boredom and distractions that come with trying to scour for resources everywhere you go.

 

Rather than making a mandatory mod for all sentinels, or simply keeping Carrier a mandatory sentinel, all it would take to solve the Carrier Dilemma would be to integrate Vacuum's benefits into all Tenno and offer another, far more unique and interesting precept for our floating gasbag. Players can focus on the more interesting parts of game and Carrier stops being a universal go-to for filling the companion slot.

 

As for repurposing Carrier, we have a number of options available to us, such the passive ability to store excess ammunition and health orbs to restore as needed, or the ability to temporarily force enemies to drop health orbs/extra ammunition on death. I don't really have a solid answer here, but I'm sure you guys could come up with much more creative suggestions. I believe in ya.

 

 

 

TL;DR:  Collecting loot sucks, Carrier solves problem while hogging companion slot, inherent loot magnet fixes everything.

 

Share your thoughts, and again, civility, friendship. G'night now.

 

 

 

EDIT 1: After some exhausted late-night pondering by the fireplace, it finally struck me that the hardest part of implementing my proposed change would be brainstorming a new precept for Carrier, I subject I lazily spent maybe three sentences on. As far as I know, it's the biggest roadblock between our current build and one with balanced sentinel use and eased loot gathering.

 

To this end, I would like to devote this thread not just to providing feedback for my proposition, but to offering ideas for giving Carrier a new precept, such as the popular pickup mule concept. The poor guy's not the problem, he's just a symptom. Give him your best.

 

To help with this, I've compiled a few notes on common themes I've seen among the other sentinels' precepts:

 

   -On the situational side

   -Befitting certain playstyles, like stealth

   -Triggered on occasion, as opposed to a constant bonus

 

Your ideas don't need to follow these particular guidelines, so we're clear. An example I'd like to offer:

 

Carrier can Vacuum a group of enemies' weapons to you, disarming foes and restoring ammo

 

I just think DE could use more ideas and suggestions on the matter. Contributions are appreciated.

 

Thanks for your time, take it easy

Edited October 6, 2015 by (PS4)Xewkeryx

[Shifted]

I mean yeah, having carrier's effect on my person would let me use another companion freely, but I can't shake the feeling that all the forma and stuff I've put into it have been wasted.

 

I agree with your solution, but carrier still needs to have something fun to suddenly not become the worst sentinel. Something unique and situational like all the other sentinels.

[Eftycchia]

Carrier.

Actually carries stuff for you instead of sucking them to you.

You know, kinda like a coat hanger. It hangs coats until you need to wear it again. Likewise for ammunition, health, and energy.

 

EDIT: Might have found something else that still ain't niche enough. Might just make Carrier be able to carry another weapon for you to use in the battlefield. Limited to one weapon only.

Edited October 6, 2015 by ViroVeteruscy

[Zeyez]

i tried this before months ago:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/448637-suggestions-about-the-new-ability-to-the-sentinel-carrier-and-the-vacuum/

swapping his ability from vacuum for "pocket/vessel", that one will allow the Carrier keep the additional ammunition, health and energy with him

 

 

at least, had no enough views or upvotes to convince the players/developers at that time

good luck

Edited October 6, 2015 by Zeyez

[Vanthenos]

The Question is, why we have to  collect the loot.

Why do we have to run around and collect all this stuff?

 

Why not

 

- Adding loot as it drops to evry tenno except mods, health and energy orbs

- Adding mods to all, only one of them have to collect it (like the credits)

- so at least we only have to run around over the whole map for energy and health orbs

 

Carrier can stand as he is.

Carrier is not more the ultimate farm sentinel

other Sentinels would be taken

Edited October 6, 2015 by Vanthenos

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

Doesn't look like my quote option works, for whatever reason - maybe I'm just too new - but I'd like to say, I love your idea Vanthenos.

 

If they decided against implementing it though, I imagine it'd be to keep players from holing up with energy plates and force them to run around the map. Kind've tragic, but so it goes.

[BrazilianJoe]

The 'Pack Mule' precept community concept is very old and is suggested time and again. (carries extra ammo/orbs picked up).

 

It is argued tirelessly, but so far DE does not seem to be interested  changing the status quo of Carrier. 

 

Vaccuum is just too much QoL, so people flock to it. I'd like to see it being made generic too. 

[MumblesMcphatty]

The only talk between the devs and players on this subject has consisted of dozens of these threads and the devs saying "No!"

Let it go already!

Vacuum is overrated, Carrier is overrated, most of the "loot" is useless junk. Many people don't use Carrier at all - the efficiency from using him is a MYTH!

This is a non-issue.

[H3dsh0t]

The Question is, why we have to  collect the loot.

Why do we have to run around and collect all this stuff?

 

Why not

 

- Adding loot as it drops to evry tenno except mods, health and energy orbs

- Adding mods to all, only one of them have to collect it (like the credits)

- so at least we only have to run around over the whole map for energy and health orbs

 

Carrier can stand as he is.

Carrier is not more the ultimate farm sentinel

other Sentinels would be taken

 

Because of AFK leeching being a thing. Especially since AFK system wouldn't currently stop this, only deny end reward.

[Shifted]

 holing up with energy plates 

Restores have their own issue as well.

They should not be spammable, either by having a set limit per mission, or by having a (few minutes long) cooldown, but that's a debate for another thread.

Point is, if the above was adjusted, there would be no problem with his idea.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Shifted

[Zeyez]

The Question is, why we have to  collect the loot.

Why do we have to run around and collect all this stuff?

...

afk farm?

that's why DE nerfed the Mag's Greedy Pull

[Donnell]

The vaccum should something that fits into the weapon slot for all of them. I assume a lot of people dont care if carrier shoots or not, they just want autoloot.

With this, make carrier be a support sentinel: it sucks up all ammo, health & energy even if you dont need it. The sentinel will deposit what it holds inside when you need it. Like a flying shopping bag that passes you ammo when you've run out.

Keeps the theme of carrier but allows others to hoover up stuff and be lazy :-)

[Mak_Gohae]

People like carrier because no one tags loot so it's all up to the player.

Carrier makes this easier on the player by just having him pass the general area not depending on other people.

 

All the markers that loot has should be enough for people to identify pick up what they want but since carrier is available people dont even bother with all of that.

[Vanthenos]

Because of AFK leeching being a thing. Especially since AFK system wouldn't currently stop this, only deny end reward.

 

 

afk farm?

that's why DE nerfed the Mag's Greedy Pull

 

AFK is a problem? i dont think so!

Playing with Clan Members = no AFK Problem

Playing Solo = no AFK Problem

Playing Random, you got an afkler = leave the party = no AFK Problem

How many afkler did you see till you played?

and last but not least, implementation of a better afk system would prevent from beeing afk.

But i think that afk wasn't and isn't the core problem in this game. (but that's another story)

 

and who cares of ressources, well i dont.

the only interesting thing is the endreward, not the ressources.

 

mags greedy pull is nerfed? oooh

its nerfed because she pulled energy to mesa not the ressources.

with carrier prime you got such a wide range, no more greedy pull mag is needed.

[Zeyez]

AFK is a problem? i dont think so!

Playing with Clan Members = no AFK Problem

Playing Solo = no AFK Problem

Playing Random, you got an afkler = leave the party = no AFK Problem

How many afkler did you see till you played?

and last but not least, implementation of a better afk system would prevent from beeing afk.

But i think that afk wasn't and isn't the core problem in this game. (but that's another story)

 

 

let's me see:

- playing with clan members... they will disagree, somewhat, if they know that one guy doesn't contribute with anything, unless this group was made only for this

- playing solo... obviously, because he is alone, plus he can pause the game whenever he wants

- playing with randoms... are you sure that everybody can do this every time? alerts doesn't keep up forever, they doesn't have unlimited revives for difficult missions (like the last part of the Undermine Tactical Alert)

 

 

most of the problem going afk farming is basically the player will not do anything, but still will be rewarded by choosing the mission

the game is fast-paced, not point-and-click

 

 

...

and who cares of ressources, well i dont.

the only interesting thing is the endreward, not the ressources.

...

 

i care, when they are neural sensors, neurodes, orokin cells, combustion beam, pathogen rounds, lots of credits...

(#irony)Oh, i need 150k polymer bundle for 2 researches into my Mountain clan, i'm supposed to do this and farm in two or three days (#ironyoff)

[serious, i need this much of polymer bundle]

 

...

mags greedy pull is nerfed? oooh

its nerfed because she pulled energy to mesa not the ressources.

with carrier prime you got such a wide range, no more greedy pull mag is needed.

it was everything: resources, mods, credits, energy, keeping in same place...

because if they really wanted just that the Mesa would not catch energy, was only prevent the greedy pull bring it

DE has the code, they own the game, they can change whatever they want to fit into that concept, even create mini-games inside the game, like Wyrium and Flappy Zephyr

Edited October 6, 2015 by Zeyez

[Vanthenos]

let's me see:

- playing with clan members... they will disagree, somewhat, if they know that one guy doesn't contribute with anything, unless this group was made only for this

- playing solo... obviously, because he is alone, plus he can pause the game whenever he wants

- playing with randoms... are you sure that everybody can do this every time? alerts doesn't keep up forever, they doesn't have unlimited revives for difficult missions (like the last part of the Undermine Tactical Alert)

 

 

most of the problem going afk farming is basically the player will not do anything, but still will be rewarded by choosing the mission

the game is fast-paced, not point-and-click

 

told you that's another story and here is not the right place to discuss about afk.

 

 

i care, when they are neural sensors, neurodes, orokin cells, combustion beam, pathogen rounds, lots of credits...

(#irony)Oh, i need 150k polymer bundle for 2 researches into my Mountain clan, i'm supposed to do this and farm in two or three days (#ironyoff)

[serious, i need this much of polymer bundle]

 

it was everything: resources, mods, credits, energy, keeping in same place...

because if they really wanted just that the Mesa would not catch energy, was only prevent the greedy pull bring it

DE has the code, they own the game, they can change whatever they want to fit into that concept, even create mini-games inside the game, like Wyrium and Flappy Zephyr

If you care about ressources, take greedy mag - she's the best leecher frame in that case and btw she don't need to move.

Greedy Pull was nerfed for the group but not for yourself.

 

back to topic pls!

[Phatose]

It shouldn't be built into frames, no.

 

 

All we need is ways to get it other then Carrier.  It becomes more interesting if those ways have a cost.   Do I want to tough it out and go without vacuum?  Use carrier?   Use one of my frame mod slots up on a vacuum mod for my frame?

[Zeyez]

...

back to topic pls!

basically, i agree with the topic

besides... how will be implemented this change? as an exilus warframe mod? passive effect? Companion mod (like animal instict, that can be used neither kubrow and sentinel)?

 

anyway, the OP suggestion was the same as i told inside the topic i mentioned before:

 

...

- Change the unique ability of the Carrier to "Pocket/Vessel": 

descriptions: allow the sentinel to carry some of the dropped resources inside him, to be used later, can carry ammunition, energy orbs and health orbs (client side only), they will be dropped back if the player need it, but somewhat delayed

10 seconds delay at rank 0, start to carry energy orbs at rank 1, health on rank 2

5 ranks, on max rank:

- carry 6 ammo of each type

- carry 5 energy orbs

- carry 4 health orbs

- 5 seconds delay to deploy these resources

 

if the sentinel have something and its destroyed, theses items will be dropped on the place

 

basically, that's what i thought

Edited October 6, 2015 by Zeyez

[Unholyrequiem]

Should at least give loot magnetism to non-combat items.

[Demon.King]

It's simpler for DE to just make Vacuum available for all sentinels, and it fixes the issue of limited sentinel diversity, so just do it that way...

 

On the long run, maybe explore more options, but I'd rather get a small change than nothing at all.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Demon.King

[TheDarkWolf]

I would be totally on board with Vacuum being a utility mod, or a mod available to all sentinels. I am also in favor of only one person needing to pick up resources and mods. Energy, Health, and Ammo should still be on an individual basis. I know AFK players is a concern, but I think it would improve QOL overall. 

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

Geez, can't believe it took me this long to realize how important a new precept for Carrier will be if my change gets approved. If you guys have ideas for a new precept you'd like to share, a post about it would be great.

 

Updated OP on the subject

[Zeyez]

just a little question:

after, if DE change the carrier, what's happen to the kubrow Retriever?

 

there's some new role that one can do?

- copy the new carrier's precept?

- some fancy new mechanic?

- blow up this kubrow?

[Misgenesis]

Never saw the appeal in carrier, still dont.