Some Kind Of Auction House? [Megathread]

[Stratego89]

No Auction Houses.

 

 

This has been suggested thousands of times. This has been rejected thousands of times. Please, before you post- next time use the search bar.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Sometiems i wonder if players that want an AH have ever played a game whit one in it....

 

I will use an example from a game vast majority of MMO players have atleast played for a bit - WoW.

AH there a tool developed for a long long time. To the point that its very profitable for select band of players that are able to manipulate on large scale the system. For everyone else - its horrid.

 

Example from back when i was playing. There were this potion that you could make called Flask's that were used in raids. At some point the market was so over saturated by potion makers that could not care less about proffits that a flask that cousted to make 11 gold was selling for 10 gold 50 silver whit added bonus of taxes also taking a toll..... So in effect it was more efficiant to sell the mats and buy the flask. It was not the only item like that.

 

That also led to other problems. Items that were to cheap to even care about disapeared from the market. Noone farmed for them and noone offered them. So in effect you had to go grind them yourself or buy them at extream prices from the very few select traders. After time more and more will go farm them and in period of a month the pricing will change so drasticly that said item will be worthless once again.

 

Now something that a lot of players like you miss and shout "Only scamers want the current system to stay" is - the players that are fine spending hours sitting in trade and trading will still make massive proffit whit even less effort whit an AH - but the normal players that just want to trow stuff at AH and go play missions will make even less plat. And i can promise you that. Just like how i was able to make hundreds and thousands of gold in WoW by just spending an hour a day at AH.

I played the hell out of DFO and made constant use of the Auction House. The potions costs less than the materials to make them too, IF you tried to buy all of the materials from the AH.  The materials were a slow sell though. If you got the items on your own then you could make a hefty profit from selling the potions, and the potions were an almost instant sell.

 

Yes, when an Auction House or item is new it creates a period of rapid price flux. This is normal and not a bad thing. It will eventually clear out back stock, and prices will stabilize.  The same thing happens even without an AH, just look at how much people were charging for Trinity Prime in the first week of her release.

 

No, normal players will start selling their items on the auction house too.  They will start to make some plat, and it will cut into the scammers' profits because they will no longer be able to charge triple the average price once the AH exists. Merchants can play the market to become richer by buying from the normal player then reselling it at a higher price, but the normal player doesn't care because they already got their payday from the merchant.

[Davoodoo]

Reason?? Explanation of some kind?? 

 

No, just because??

k

 

Ill give a reason why we could use it. It would simplify whole process of buying and selling and reduce amount of time you waste on trading.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Davoodoo

[AdunSaveMe]

This has been suggested thousands of times. This has been rejected thousands of times.

It has also had those rejections countered just as many times.

[styxonfire]

It has also had those rejections countered just as many times.

Lets just give it a rest because at the end of the day, no matter how right we are, DE is technically the GOD of the game. They have the final say. I'm just happy they were fair in alot of things I'm concerned about, but thats just me and my opinion. Fact is, DE has the final say on whether they really will or really will not implement an Auction House.

[Syln]

 

:p

[styxonfire]

 

:p

There's a search button in the game's trading tab? @.@

[Nlim]

The way the loot system works in Warframe gurantees that there will always be way more supply than demand for the majority of parts/mods therefor a Auction house would just lead to the market being swamped with cheap offers destroying one core game loop: Instead of playing the game to get something most people would just buy it of the market which in turn negates large parts of the progression in the game which in turn leads to players leaving since they have less motivation to play. Diablo3 learned this the hard way.

 

But what about games which do have a auction house? These are mostly mmorpgs and I don´t know of a single one which doesn´t do one of the following (often multiples) to keep the supply under control:

 

1.) Lock the most desirable gear (often from raids) to a player - either by equipping it(this one would apply to Warframe) or more common just by picking up the drop (Warframe kind of does the opposite by allowing trading of prime parts while for example locking trading of normal frames).

2.) Keep releasing expansions on a timely scheduale to invalidate old gear via extrem power creep. (which doesn´t really happen in Warframe - for example Boltor Prime has been a top tier weapon ever since it came out)

3.) Focus trade (and the progression) mostly around consumeables in high&constant demand (one could say that this applys somewhat to Warframe due to the Void trader but the plat value of a prime part for ducats is even without a auction house laughably low)

4.) Focus trade on cash shop items (often with a player lock again once equipped)

5.) Have insane drop rates to slow down saturation massivly (often requiring entire raids to have even less of a chance to get one specific part than in a 20 min surv run in Warframe where in additon all four players get the part)

 

Since those hardly apply to Warframe it would need a major redesign to keep the supply in check for a auction house - so yay for nesscary&expansive consumables, more power creep, lower drop rates and more restricted trading but at least trading is easier I guess.

 

Edit: Forget a quite important 6.) Uses a ingame currency which suffers under constant inflation (way more so than a cash shop currency like plat) leading to prices going up. In theory this would be a zero sum game but in reality the way to generate currency through playing doesn´t tend keep up with this inflation leading to the surplus mostly being distributed among those who trade the most (in other words the less you trade relatively speaking the more expansive things tend to get over time unless the supply increases in a similiar fashion or the way to generated gold is getting raised - usually through a expansion with higher level zones)

Edited October 15, 2015 by Nlim

[Stratego89]

It has also had those rejections countered just as many times.

Yes. The rejections with lengthy explanations of why it would not work- examples of where it has failed and succeeded in other games proving it wouldn't work in Warframe. Countered by "NO SHUDDUP YOU DON'T KNOW IT WOULDN'T WORK". The counters are always the same stuff- that stuff being nothing. They have no logic, they have no argument. They just refuse to listen and still want it because they are lazy and don't want to have to actually trade the normal way- and I guarantee you that every single person who has ever suggested an auction house in this game sat on draco holding M1 while their mesa scrubbed the place clean. The people that want this do not listen to logic and are lazy. I sound like I'm stereotyping- because I am. I don't normally do that, but until I've been proven wrong (which after all this time I have yet to be) this time I make an exception.

[AdunSaveMe]

Lets just give it a rest because at the end of the day, no matter how right we are, DE is technically the GOD of the game. They have the final say. I'm just happy they were fair in alot of things I'm concerned about, but thats just me and my opinion. Fact is, DE has the final say on whether they really will or really will not implement an Auction House.

So? I don't get your point. Why do you think we have a forum for feedback and suggestions?

[Syln]

There's a search button in the game's trading tab? @.@

Nope but there's one to look for specific topic :D

 

EDIT :For the OP you have to understand that this kind topic pop up every once in a while.

 

In my opinion it's not because auction house is a necessity but most likely because someone discover the tradechat or don'tuse it frequently -> get burned -> go do a new post about auction house.

 

For me trade has become a meta game and basically i spend as much time trading (sometimes more) than playing the actual game. An auction house would ruin that :/ 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Syln

[Dhrekr]

This must be the 99th thread regarding Auction Houses

Make it the 1000th.

 

 

So? I don't get your point. Why do you think we have a forum for feedback and suggestions?

To spam it with the SAME OLD QUESTION over and over again, clearly.

[AdunSaveMe]

Yes. The rejections with lengthy explanations of why it would not work- examples of where it has failed and succeeded in other games proving it wouldn't work in Warframe. Countered by "NO SHUDDUP YOU DON'T KNOW IT WOULDN'T WORK". The counters are always the same stuff- that stuff being nothing.

Funny, I almost never see that.

 

The people that want this do not listen to logic and are lazy.

Ah yes, the good old "everyone who disagrees is bad/lazy/stupid" trick. Works every time.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

I feel Warframe would benefit greatly from a auction house. This constant spamming WTS or WTB is tiring and boring and you have to be very lucky to find what you are looking for as it's flying by or for your item to be seen. Then you have to hope it's for the kinda of price you were looking for. Not to mention a lot of the time you can't get a rough idea on how much things are worth so either end up getting ripped off or selling something for too cheap.

 

At least with a auction house you can have a competitive market and finally get it for the fairest price possible.

Here you go. https://warframe.market/

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

to be honest, the trade chat is one huge mess and there are alot of unfriendly people out there

 

we really really need something like an auction house maybe stationed on Relays?

 

please tell me if you like the Idea and i would really appreciate if some DE staff could answer if there are plans to implement something like that.

Here you go. https://warframe.market/

[styxonfire]

Yes. The rejections with lengthy explanations of why it would not work- examples of where it has failed and succeeded in other games proving it wouldn't work in Warframe. Countered by "NO SHUDDUP YOU DON'T KNOW IT WOULDN'T WORK". The counters are always the same stuff- that stuff being nothing. They have no logic, they have no argument. They just refuse to listen and still want it because they are lazy and don't want to have to actually trade the normal way- and I guarantee you that every single person who has ever suggested an auction house in this game sat on draco holding M1 while their mesa scrubbed the place clean. The people that want this do not listen to logic and are lazy. I sound like I'm stereotyping- because I am. I don't normally do that, but until I've been proven wrong (which after all this time I have yet to be) this time I make an exception.

Well, I just don't want any potential inflation or deflation like what happened on other MMO's I've played. There's Dragon Nest's inflation and then there's Guild Wars 2's deflation when it was really young, and somewhat of an inflation in Tera, and then there's EVE online... which I can't really tell if its inflated, deflated, stable, or everyone just has enough money to spend on some of the offerings from Alienware's desktop series would rather spend it directly on EVE.

That said, Auction Houses have only given opportunities from either one or two ends, the player or the pubs+devs. If there's not much to spend on, and its questionable if its worth it, the pubs/devs/marketing team would have to think of some way to make the players spend on the game. The time it starts to get screwed is when it starts giving the impression to players that its obligating them to spend real money or 8-10 hours a day to KEEP UP (there's a difference between keeping up in the leader board stats and keeping up just to be qualified to even do some minor end-game raids or runs) with the meta game.

[Davoodoo]

Here you go. https://warframe.market/

While site itself is helpful, still requires alot of player input and it only removes need to access trade chat.

 

Both seller and buyer still need to be online at same time, need to have no problem connecting to each other and 1 of them needs dojo with trading post, also whole process takes few minutes.

 

All of above could be fixed with ah.

 

Also i havent mentioned risk of using 3rd party site, but it seems minimal in this case.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Stratego89]

Funny, I almost never see that.

 

Ah yes, the good old "everyone who disagrees is bad/lazy/stupid" trick. Works every time.

You must not see these threads often- or read past OP even if you do, or see the tons of brilliant "arguments" in favor of auction houses deep into the threads...

 

Yes. I say this based off of me experience with the people who support the auction house system. If my experience was different, then I wouldn't say this.

 

Auction houses KILL ECONOMIES. I am avidly against this because adding one would completely kill Warframe's economy within a couple of weeks. I don't want to see my favorite game die because of some stupid decision put in to appease people who are too lazy to work for what they want.

[styxonfire]

Here you go. https://warframe.market/

Is that thing updated in REAL-TIME? Let alone accurately get the prices right?

[Samjuaro]

While site itself is helpful, still requires alot of player input and it only removes need to access trade chat.

 

Both seller and buyer still need to be online at same time, need to have no problem connecting to each other and 1 of them needs dojo with trading post, also whole process takes few minutes.

 

All of above could be fixed with ah.

On top of that only a small portion of the playerbase even knows about that site.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Yes. The rejections with lengthy explanations of why it would not work- examples of where it has failed and succeeded in other games proving it wouldn't work in Warframe. Countered by "NO SHUDDUP YOU DON'T KNOW IT WOULDN'T WORK". The counters are always the same stuff- that stuff being nothing. They have no logic, they have no argument. They just refuse to listen and still want it because they are lazy and don't want to have to actually trade the normal way- and I guarantee you that every single person who has ever suggested an auction house in this game sat on draco holding M1 while their mesa scrubbed the place clean. The people that want this do not listen to logic and are lazy. I sound like I'm stereotyping- because I am. I don't normally do that, but until I've been proven wrong (which after all this time I have yet to be) this time I make an exception.

Also that proof is irrelevant. Warframe is not those other games. DE will decide, not you, if they are willing to try out some kind of 'player marketplace' type deal, or not. 

No agruing. No fighting.

Is that thing updated in REAL-TIME? Let alone accurately get the prices right?

Well it certainly looks a bit more reliable than WFTrading, so it's the best we got so far.

You must not see these threads often- or read past OP even if you do, or see the tons of brilliant "arguments" in favor of auction houses deep into the threads...

 

Yes. I say this based off of me experience with the people who support the auction house system. If my experience was different, then I wouldn't say this.

 

Auction houses KILL ECONOMIES. I am avidly against this because adding one would completely kill Warframe's economy within a couple of weeks. I don't want to see my favorite game die because of some stupid decision put in to appease people who are too lazy to work for what they want.

It's rip off artists who kill economies.

[Chhkt]

Anyone who has played the .01 ISK game in Jita on EVE knows that Warframe could not support such a method of trading. Prices would drop to abysmal levels rather quickly and would leave players with one of two outcomes.

1. All players who are selling the items earn far less than they do now. People see less of a reason to play and farm because it takes forever to trade to save up the plat for anything.

2. The buyers, while initially benefiting from crashed prices, burn through content at such ridiculous speeds and spend less time on the game because they can just trade for everything rather than try to earn it.

For the overall health of the game completely accurate real-time pricing would be a curse.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Xcedis

[Stratego89]

Well, I just don't want any potential inflation or deflation like what happened on other MMO's I've played. There's Dragon Nest's inflation and then there's Guild Wars 2's deflation when it was really young, and somewhat of an inflation in Tera, and then there's EVE online... which I can't really tell if its inflated, deflated, stable, or everyone just has enough money to spend on some of the offerings from Alienware's desktop series would rather spend it directly on EVE.

That said, Auction Houses have only given opportunities from either one or two ends, the player or the pubs+devs. If there's not much to spend on, and its questionable if its worth it, the pubs/devs/marketing team would have to think of some way to make the players spend on the game. The time it starts to get screwed is when it starts giving the impression to players that its obligating them to spend real money or 8-10 hours a day to KEEP UP (there's a difference between keeping up in the leader board stats and keeping up just to be qualified to even do some minor end-game raids or runs) with the meta game.

Inflation and deflation happens. It's part of a "healthy" economy. It's like how structures need to be not-rigid so that they can expand slightly in the summer heat and contract in the winter cool without cracking and breaking apart. Warframe's economy is a FREE MARKET. People can charge or pay whatever they want. It's not a walmart, people make their own prices based on their haggling skills, rarity of items, supply and demand, etc etc. It's alive. It changes, it adapts. This is a good thing. It keeps it from becoming stagnant and dying. It keeps everyone happy as long as they're willing to do the work they need to find the buyer/seller they're looking for.

 

There is plenty to spend plat on, plenty. That would change if an auction house happened- as I'll describe below. Players don't need to spend anywhere near that time to "keep up". Everything players get in this game they get by choice. They don't NEED that shiny new weapon- they choose to get it. Most MMOs have the setup of "get weapon to get better weapon to get better weapon" in an chain that inevitably ends with "congrats you have best thing go kick butt and get bored". Warframe's setup is nothing like that. Everything is "equal". The mods are the thing that you have to put time into to be powerful and "keep up". Sure you could spend a ton of money on plat to quickly and easily buy mods max ranked. But that's a choice. The point of having to spend a lot of time on stuff is PLAYER RETENTION. That is an important thing that keeps a game alive... Also- no matter how much money players spend on the game, in the end they still have to level up their gear in order to mod it to be good. (Sidenote here. Keep up in the leaderboards? Impossible. This game has a surprising number of cheaters who apparently care about being top dog. Completing a raid in 3 minutes or less? There's literally no way other than hacks.)

 

This is generally correct- but an auction house in warframe would not give opportunities to EITHER side. It would take away from both. People have tons and tons and tons of spares of every prime part. There are (I believe) 15 million players in warframe. Most have multiple spares of parts and mods etc that a MUCH smaller percentage of players want/need. If an auction house happened- every player would suddenly post up their spare parts- even more than there are total players. In order to compete everyone would drop their prices. The few people that actually need the parts would buy them up cheap (this is what people want... but they don't think about what happens afterwards, and probably don't care really). After that- NOONE would need the parts anymore. Everyone who needs them already got them. There would be infinite supply, and 0 demand. Supply and demand must exist in balance for an economy to survive. If everyone has the stuff they need- noone else will buy ever. If noone else will buy- there's no more need to buy plat to trade. Players no longer have anyone to sell stuff to to make plat without buying it themselves. DE's plat sales drop drastically. EVERYONE LOSES. I've posted this a million times in many different ways on tons of "ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE WE NEED IT!" threads. Yet usually noone listens and just comes back with "No the current system sucks this would make things easy"- as if they didn't read a word I said. Maybe some day DE will give an official stance on this topic- and I pray that it is "we won't put an auction house in Warframe". But I have faith that they are smart enough to not add one.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Anyone who has played the .01 ISK game in Jita on EVE knows that Warframe could not support such a method of trading. Prices would drop to abysmal levels rather quickly and would leave players with one of two outcomes.

1. All players who are selling the items earn far less than they do now. People see less of a reason to play and farm because it takes forever to trade to save up the plat for anything.

2. The buyers, while initially benefiting from crashed prices, burn through content at such ridiculous speeds and spend less time on the game because they can just trade for everything rather than try to earn it.

For the overall health of the game completely accurate real-time pricing would be a curse.

Warframe is not Eve Online. They are nothing alike. Warframe supports comradery, friendship, healthy and non-psycho mindsets.

Eve is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The second you click play, you subject yourself to be a helpless victim of PvP unconsentiously. PvE in Eve is shunned, while PvP determines who is "worthy" to be spared. Warframe's PvP is just something that was added in last-minute just so the PvP lovers could have their fill while playing Warframe. Please do not compare completely different games, not even in the same genre, again.

EDIT: Also on a side note. Eve Online is still going well over 10 years strong. Eve Online is based primarily around player economy.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Hawk_of_the_Reborn

[Guest]

Sometiems i wonder if players that want an AH have ever played a game whit one in it....

 

I will use an example from a game vast majority of MMO players have atleast played for a bit - WoW.

AH there a tool developed for a long long time. To the point that its very profitable for select band of players that are able to manipulate on large scale the system. For everyone else - its horrid.

 

Example from back when i was playing. There were this potion that you could make called Flask's that were used in raids. At some point the market was so over saturated by potion makers that could not care less about proffits that a flask that cousted to make 11 gold was selling for 10 gold 50 silver whit added bonus of taxes also taking a toll..... So in effect it was more efficiant to sell the mats and buy the flask. It was not the only item like that.

 

That also led to other problems. Items that were to cheap to even care about disapeared from the market. Noone farmed for them and noone offered them. So in effect you had to go grind them yourself or buy them at extream prices from the very few select traders. After time more and more will go farm them and in period of a month the pricing will change so drasticly that said item will be worthless once again.

 

Now something that a lot of players like you miss and shout "Only scamers want the current system to stay" is - the players that are fine spending hours sitting in trade and trading will still make massive proffit whit even less effort whit an AH - but the normal players that just want to trow stuff at AH and go play missions will make even less plat. And i can promise you that. Just like how i was able to make hundreds and thousands of gold in WoW by just spending an hour a day at AH.

 

I play WoW too, and I understand one thing and that is those people who you called "manipulate" are people who spend more time thinking about how to earn gold and are more committed to it just like how you and me are more committed to the actual gameplay rather than making a buck. If this week Ore sells at a higher level and more demanding what's wrong with them digging Ore and selling them in mass scale? I think it's rather normal to keep up with the demand and charge for a little extra if it's very demanding. You might think grinding gear gives you an objective goal in the game, but these people think earning that gold and obtaining those demanding gears are their objective goal?

 

I think AH is very effective, currently is non effective system where you have to read and wait for minutes/hours to trade, this is not a game, this is called a job.  What's wrong with us want to be effective? I mean I don't got home until 9pm and I got out at 7:30am in the morning, you might be in school or might be having a lower working time, what's wrong with me asking for something that I believe will improve busy people's gameplay quality? WoW too have people still yelling in the channel to sell stuff, if you want it that way that's just an extra option for us, why are you so selfish?

 

As for trolling on price? NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Learn something called Economics, microeconomics suggest that the market is self regulating and there is no need for government interference. Marcoeconomics however, supports the keynesian economics theory which the system sometimes would need the government to regulate which is what DE's been doing all along, Baro Ki' teer, events, exclusives, and cash only Prime Accesses. If you believe in self regulating economy there will be very few and nearly no one paying for a 50plat Rage mod, thus the market will forced to lower the price to the equilibrium point where the supply matches the demand, 

 

here is an example graph of equilibrium point

 

 

 

If you believe in Keynesian economics, you don't have to worry at all. DE is already doing what they are suppose to do to accomplish their regulated economics. And if you really are a hardcore MMO player, you will know that events and updates are the time where developers or GMs shuffle the economy. Look at what happened to Tempo Royale few weeks ago, dropped from 300plat to 100plat. That's quite earth shattering on that mod ins't it? Guess what would happen if Baro Ki' Teer start selling Tempo Royale? I bet it'll drop to 50 plat if it's in a AH manner. And if I want to make a quick buck without waiting, I can always offer to sell at 40 or 35plat, so as the lower level players. Or if we keep up our current system maybe some scammers will still sell them at 300 plat for those who doesn't have the info yet or those who cannot access the relay yet.

 

Which kind are you? Being constructive or believe in no data but blindly believe in what you think as there is always some higher power controlling the economy?

 

 

Don't make an excuse like "but normal players will make less"  this is the same as what Warframe offers or any other MMO offers, if you don't spend the time to actually play the game or you are lower level and will still need more time to level up, it's natural that one is limited. Remember the time when you are new and wanted that Orokin cell badly or that Argon Crystal? Guess what? I have crap tons of them now, but back then I was like a desprite little S#&$ always hoping someone with high tier items to help me kill General Sargas, but when I get to the void level those Orokin Cell is the least thing I want, that's just the way game reward you leveling, why is that wrong?