Rng Seed Bound To Account?

[Ampoth]

I don't think you understand how RNG works.

The thing about RNG (not that its ever truly 100% balanced) is that you are just as likely to have consistent horrible luck as you are consistent good luck, or even a decent mix.

Correlation does not always equal causation, not to mention you would need a much larger sample size and sufficient supporting evidence, which you don't have, to make such a conclusion even remotely more accurate.

 

By contrast my luck with RNG (I'm mostly solo so no changes in seeds are relevant) regularly fluctuate from good to ban and all things inbetween.

How does that fit into your theory?

 

I'm not sure you know how it's implemented in a lot of games either. There's a long history of games using account bound seeds, with some players having seeds that are hands down terrible. I as well have noticed in my playtime that some people are consistently lucky and others are not, which is indicative of a account bound seed. Not to mention DE is a small team, I doubt they used any pseudo-random number generator other than the engine default, nor would they have probably bothered (or know how) to test if it was working fairly. I'm a statistician, I've been trying to collect data on this for a while, but the void tables keep changing and even then, when I do know the drop chances on a void table I'm still only able to sample an interval of the PRNG's output. Not to mention the huge amount of keys I need to have just to collect the data.

[Pyus]

Changing the drop rate does not alter the RNG.  They are different hings.

For example:

Say you have an item that drops 70% of the time, or 7/10.

Your RNG will generate a number between 1 and 10.  If it is 7 or lower you get the item.

Every time you get the item the drop rate lowers by 10%.

Your RNG is unaffected.  It still generates a perfectly random number between 1 and 10. 

The only difference is the goal number it has to roll under.

They are changing the drop chance not the RNG that determines whether you get the drop or not.

They are not directly related.

You are trying to tie two different things together far more tightly than they actually are.

Because if what you were saying is true then you are saying that they are instead doing this:

The item has a 70% drop rate the first time.

The first time you try getting it it generates a number between 1 and 10.

The item still has a 70% drop rate but now your RNG generates a number that is between 2 and 10.

So on and so on until you can't get under a 7.

That is completely different than what DE is doing.

That example would be changing the RNG, not the drop rate.

So yes, the drop rate =/= RNG

And do this:

Prove that DE does that drop rate (not RNG) change on a per account basis beyond the Cronus.

DO a large enough sampling with two accounts and prove that RNG is dependant on account and nothing else.

Or try to prove that they are changing the RNG and not the drop rate.

 

 

I am interested in finding out more about the above, can you please provide your source? 

[(PSN)Iron--Phantom--]

RNG, RNG, RNG, RNG, R.......... N......... G!!!!!

[Aggh]

 

 

This is exactly what they did with the seer drop rates, I provided a historical source and your argument is "They would not do that"  

No, your example of seer drop rates is a complete misunderstanding of the situation there.  All that happened was that they accidentally misapplied the algorithm for cronus's drop rate (which was created to stop people from grinding cronus BPs for credits) to the seer when they added it to vor's drop tables.  They then fixed that.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Aggh

[Truth]

Do you have any proof that this system actually exists whatsoever?

[atom]

I'm not sure you know how it's implemented in a lot of games either. There's a long history of games using account bound seeds, with some players having seeds that are hands down terrible. I as well have noticed in my playtime that some people are consistently lucky and others are not, which is indicative of a account bound seed. Not to mention DE is a small team, I doubt they used any pseudo-random number generator other than the engine default, nor would they have probably bothered (or know how) to test if it was working fairly. I'm a statistician, I've been trying to collect data on this for a while, but the void tables keep changing and even then, when I do know the drop chances on a void table I'm still only able to sample an interval of the PRNG's output. Not to mention the huge amount of keys I need to have just to collect the data.

this.

thank you.

i have observed this phenomenon of some players being overall lucky most of the time and others being unlucky and the account bound seed system is the only way i can explain it.

if this system is in place in warframe i say it's bad and needs to go

 

alternatively be open about the seeding factors so i at least know what to do about it. after all i can understand they need to make money somehow.

that being said i think they are doing well enough to not need this kind of thing in place

Edited October 16, 2015 by ..atom..

[Acidulant]

Almost all RNG uses seed in some form.

[Tsukinoki]

this.

thank you.

i have observed this phenomenon of some players being overall lucky most of the time and others being unlucky and the account bound seed system is the only way i can explain it.

if this system is in place in warframe i say it's bad and needs to go

Define "some".

Because unless you can get verified accounts of thousands to tens-of-thousands of accounts then you have nothing.

Because RNG will seem to make some accounts lucky or unlucky for a period of time and then change, because its random.

Just judging a dozen accounts means nothing in the long run.

And further: when people datamined the drop rates to various things they found that over very large samples the drop rates roughly held true to what it says.

And I do mean very large samples.

They didn't find evidence of anything other than pure RNG at work.

[Ampoth]

Almost all RNG uses seed in some form.

 

All PRNGs use seeds, the issue is that some algorithms are actually pretty terrible. I have an inkling about the implementation that DE has, and I suspect that in addition to the account bound seed there might be a daily rotating seed. But over all there have been a myriad of issues with the reward generation that have made me suspect things might be wrong. There's a large amount of repetition on void tables when you run them repeatedly, almost as if the PRNG is stuck.

 

Then a while back we had issues with interceptions repeatedly giving natural talent, I suspect that was more likely an error with the drop tables themselves than with the algorithm, probably just a mistake that got rolled in to the live build. But IIRC once the mission gave you natural talent it would keep giving you natural talent, which looks a lot like a stuck algorithm. But since it was just interceptions it's probably wasn't the number generator it wouldn't make sense for them to have separate code for reward generation for a different mission type.

 

But I honestly have no clue. DE has proven themselves to be rather bad at implementing things, with tons of bugs that they should have seen coming. Heck I'm pretty sure a lot of the artists in DE are doing the coding, which to their credit is very impressive, I probably wouldn't be any better, that's not my area of expertise. But I doubt they ever got an applied mathematician/statistician to check on the PRNG.

[immolator1001]

i came to this conclusion after extensive playing. the seed for my account is not good. whenever i host or play solo i get crap (common mods, drops, resources, etc).

if i join one of my lucky seed friend we always get the good stuff

a couple of weeks ago i used a promo code for 2x resource drops and spent about 1000p on various things in the game. my luck totally changed for a week all across the board and i got rare resources from extractos daily (this after using them nonstop since they came out and maybe getting them 1/mo), getting rare mods in every mission, rare prime parts almost every time i ran a void mission (got almost all the new prime parts in less than 10 runs each). the "luck" change was drastic and consistent all across the board.

my testing was done by playing the game for a long time and has shown me it's definitely not random or "luck"

Lol thats not a test, tests have variables and controls, you don't any hard data or even a comparison between accounts. 

 

If we are going by gut I can say that I've played for 1221 hours and I say its random.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

We all have good times, and we all have bad times.

This thread encroaches more toward "Conspiracy Theory", especially as there is no proof of an RNG seed.

In effect, it begins to mislead others and spread incorrect information, making not for a constructive discussion.

Locking.

[Cleesus]

Sorry good sir, that is not how the rng in this game works or in any other mmo. Locking to prevent this conspiracy from spreading

[Cleesus]

That moment when you lock a post at the same time as Dev but your lock message was way cooler