Bringing Back Arcane Helmets For New Players

[iuki.]

Min 1500 (or more) plat to buy from a player for 10x arcane avenger just to combine/put on one single item....so 3-4k if you want one for hat and scarf. Yea, no thxs; I will stick with my arcane hats that I got free and easily way back when. And no, I am not interested in raids one bit, I played hardcore raids in that one particular MMO for 8 years and I don't miss that BS and drama factory one bit...it's sad to see raiding and their godly rewards slowly but surely taking over here as well, as a solo player..unless you drop a 100s of bucks to obtain these, you are SOL. I am sure this is working as intended to sell plat so w/e. Anyways, big no thanks to removing my arcane hats.

Edited October 18, 2015 by fizbit

[-InV-igo95862]

this thread, or rather most people make me sick beyond belief 

 

people who disagree with OP are instantly marked stupid illiterate idiots, thanks guys

 

Exclusive//earlier available//event items were there for people who were there END OF STORY

 

 

Everybody can still perfectly play this game to huge effectiveness even without Arcane Helmets, Arcanes or Event Weapons

 

Don't bring event weapons in your argument. They were released several times. Strun Wraith was in tactical alert. Gorgon Wraith and Twin Wraith Vipers were obtainable in Infested Invasion and Corpus Proxy rebellion.

[Acidulant]

Don't bring event weapons in your argument. They were released several times. Strun Wraith was in tactical alert. Gorgon Wraith and Twin Wraith Vipers were obtainable in Infested Invasion and Corpus Proxy rebellion.

And they weren't buyable in market

:^)

[Lightsmith]

Well, at the risk of overcomplicating things, DE could implement a system were players could only use a certain amount of arcane enhancements.

I mean, you aren't losing out on anything here.

Great, another person who can't read.

I read the title. Perhaps if a a number of people make this mistake you should think about how / what you wrote. The topic makes it quite clear.

Upon looking back at the original post you clearly desire to remove the arcane helms. So I'm not sure where I was wrong. Perhaps you should learn to edit the title if your topic is different.

[MagPrime]

Aren't arcanes already tradeable?

Not once attached to an item.

[Lightsmith]

Not once attached to an item.

The original Arcane Helms are.

[TheBrsrkr]

Not once attached to an item.

Why not make them a current version of arcanes? Except for the efficiency ones?

[VampirePirate]

I like how you just took a snippit of text from that post and then proceeded to make a huge arguement about it, when the most important part was missed out  xD

No.  What I did was show everyone how you are contradicting yourself as well as being a hypocrite.   I'm talking about the entire complaint you made, but I also made a valid point using the snippet.  i don't expect a person like you to understand that though, based on the thread you created here.  All you are doing is digging up an issue that is far too old to even consider discussing.  The issue was settled way back when at the time the Devs removed Arcane Helmets from the game.  So in essence, you got exactly what you wanted.  However, to make a thread demanding that DE remove items from people's inventory simply because you want to feel better about playing this game without them, makes absolutely no sense at all.   There's no point in arguing about it, because this thread is pointless.  All I did was point this out, yet again.

Edited October 18, 2015 by VampirePirate

[BAD9eR]

tbf more plat spent on trading is better for DE , they want plat sinks , so we buy more. 

 

also "you snooze , you lose " isnt centerd around luck, it simply means he who fails to show attentiveness loses out " self explanatory really

 

look in any MMO there are exclusive or  time ltd items out there. deal with it . lifes not fair  . if the newbs had been supporting DE at the time by playing they would have got the helms , all the crying in the world wont change that fact .    /thread plz

[Barkano]

No.  What I did was show everyone how you are contradicting yourself as well as being a hypocrite.   I'm talking about the entire complaint you made, but I also made a valid point using the snippet.  i don't expect a person like you to understand that though, based on the thread you created here.  All you are doing is digging up an issue that is far too old to even consider discussing.  The issue was settled way back when at the time the Devs removed Arcane Helmets from the game.  So in essence, you got exactly what you wanted.  However, to make a thread demanding that DE remove items from people's inventory simply because you want to feel better about playing this game without them, makes absolutely no sense at all.   There's no point in arguing about it, because this thread is pointless.  All I did was point this out, yet again.

bro did you even read the topic?

[MagPrime]

The original Arcane Helms are.

 

 

Why not make them a current version of arcanes? Except for the efficiency ones?

I think I missed a step here.

 

If DE removed the Arcane helms and turned them into Arcane Enhancements, once they're attached to an item, they are no longer tradeable.

 

I'm well aware that you can trade the current Arcane helms, I've done it myself.

[Wreckoning]

To OP:  Bah.

 

I came late enough to the party to miss out on some equipment and mods but I got in early enough to get arcane helms.  For which i worked for.  For which i carried an app on my phone telling me what alerts were up.  I don't whine about the stuff I don't have, like Prime Chamber and Excal Prime, etc and so on.  I just accept it - and it doesn't ruin the game for me.  This kind of proposal is just jealousy.  Deal with it.  *puts on sunglasses*  I do.

[Ashnal]

*snip*

There's quite a few problems with arcane helmets. THe original problem is that DE didn't want stats tied to cosmetics (at least not permanently without choice). The original decision to just make them unavailable, yet tradable was to make sure that any new players going forward would not have to make the choice between stats and cosmetics. Of course, the trading part complicated this, and I believe it kind of betrayed the goal a bit. 

 

Having them reappear as rewards for things like tactical alerts or events would just bring much of the player population back to square one: "Stats or appearance?" So that's a bad idea.

 

Removing them completely deprives the older players that either bought (these were available for plat purchase, as well as trading later on) or earned them. Also a bad idea.

 

Integrating them into the current arcane system is a decent idea, but the details laid out aren't that good. The old arcanes' stat boosts follow a completely different design than all of the new arcanes. Old ones being straight slight debuff and minor buffs, while the new ones are all chance based to activate for moderate effects. Removing the old ones and replacing them with new ones that fit into the new arcane design is an alright idea, but I think we can do better, as that will still upset a lot of people.

 

The current situation is a decent compromise. Newer and less veteran players never have to bother with them because they are far out of reach for them, effectively eliminating the problem for that portion of the player base. Veterans still have to deal with the issue, but it is far better to leave the choice than to remove the item altogether.

 

One improvement would be to seal the deal by making them non-tradable. Then it truly becomes a non-issue for everyone that doesn't have it. No need to worry about it or even bother since they would be unobtainable through any means. The game is perfectly playable (and designed to be playable) without them, so players who don't have them are hardly missing much. Over a couple more years they will fade away as players come and go and cease to be an issue.

 

The best solution I think, is to basically separate the helmet from the effect, creating a new style arcane item, but with the exact effect of the old helmet. They would be non-tradable AND non-obtainable. This lets players who earned them keep all the same possibilities that they had, but with appearance choice. It also will allow these arcanes that are design inconsistent (flat buff/debuff) to slowly fade away as players that own them stop playing. This leaves room in raid drop tables for newer, better designed arcane effects, rather than cramming old ones in.

 

Sure, none of these address your original desire of all or nothing availability, but the methods to do all or nothing availability are rather extreme. You can't remove them without basically ripping off the players that paid for/earned them, but you can't make them available without perpetuating the original problem. So you have to compromise.

[[DE]Momaw]

I propose:

 

1.)  All existing Arcane helmets be converted into Arcane-enhanced helmets. That is, they are an ordinary helmet with the magical effects on them converted into a pre-installed Arcane upgrade

 

2.) New arcanes have only 1 rank. No stacking required (to compensate for there being a LOT of them in the pool).

 

3.) The resulting Arcane effects drop from wherever you get such things, and are frame-specific.  So if you get the Arcane "Nyx power efficiency" (originally from arcane Vespa),  then it can only be equipped on a Nyx helmet. Any one of them you want.

 

Benefits:

+ Does not punish veteran players or diminish the performance of their loot

+ Gives the possibility of the arcane effects to all players

+ Divorces the old arcane effects from specific helmets

+ Sidesteps out-of-control power creep by keeping the arcanes on the frames they were designed for, and moving forward, any new frame-specific arcanes can be tailored to the frame in question

Edited October 18, 2015 by Momaw

[-Narauko-]

Id agree in bringing back the stat benefits to new arcane enhancements. Or perhaps we should call them Corrupted arcanes since the old had pros and cons to them much like the corrupted mods.

[Acidulant]

Id agree in bringing back the stat benefits to new arcane enhancements. Or perhaps we should call them Corrupted arcanes since the old had pros and cons to them much like the corrupted mods.

My idea is that DE should release all the old Arcane effects in form of current Arcane Enhancements (except for +efficiency ones) in J3 Golem Trial.

Sounds fair enough to me.

[Barkano]

I propose:

 

1.)  All existing Arcane helmets be converted into Arcane-enhanced helmets. That is, they are an ordinary helmet with the magical effects on them converted into a pre-installed Arcane upgrade

 

2.) New arcanes have only 1 rank. No stacking required (to compensate for there being a LOT of them in the pool).

 

3.) The resulting Arcane effects drop from wherever you get such things, and are frame-specific.  So if you get the Arcane "Nyx power efficiency" (originally from arcane Vespa),  then it can only be equipped on a Nyx helmet. Any one of them you want.

 

Benefits:

+ Does not punish veteran players or diminish the performance of their loot

+ Gives the possibility of the arcane effects to all players

+ Divorces the old arcane effects from specific helmets

+ Sidesteps out-of-control power creep by keeping the arcanes on the frames they were designed for, and moving forward, any new frame-specific arcanes can be tailored to the frame in question

Thats pretty much the most accurate solution to this drama. +1

[low1991]

You need platinum to purchase them from other players. That is the only way you will get them. This is not OK, and it shouldn't be left like this.

It's called equivalent exchange. A trade.

Nothing comes for free in internet/ real life.

On the bright side, those arcane helmet can be ignored. for those 15% PE (example), all u save is at least 3 mod point on your loadout.

To me, the effects are minor. My PoV.

[Vesiga]

Why care if other players have arcane helms? 
"This player has a tiny buff over me, and I'm offended" 

If you want them gone, simply don't use them, or think about them.
Your game play =/= their game play. So if they have 10% p.str or sprint speed or duration or whatever over you, it doesn't matter. 

but taking them away?
that effects those who do have it. 
even if they give compensation, I don't want a legendary core in place of my arcane aura, or arcane chlora. 

They made their decision about letting players keep them; let it be that way. 

It's not a disadvantage to newer players.
They don't need to shell out plat.
They can reach the same heights in the game we can, plus you can't use arcane helms in pvp so there's no advantage there.
Sure you can in the dojo duels, but none of that is even balanced, it's all about whoever gets the first shot.

This is a PvE game, with players who mostly have the thought of "end game levels" as lv 40-50 anyways.
and with/without arcane helms you can go farther than that. 
so there's no sense in taking away a little leisure. 
 
Sure the same could be said about "it doesn't matter to take them away if it's that easy then" 
which is true, but it's the fact of "this item is mine, and I want to keep it"

If they were to take them out, the better "compensation" would be to create arcanes that are like the raid, give the players x10 of the same effect the helms do, and release those arcanes in the golem raid. 


-I skimmed most of the post, so if anything has been said that's made my reply either the same thing, or similar, oh well. Mostly replying to the topic name

Edited October 18, 2015 by Vesiga

[fatpig84]

I propose:

 

1.)  All existing Arcane helmets be converted into Arcane-enhanced helmets. That is, they are an ordinary helmet with the magical effects on them converted into a pre-installed Arcane upgrade

 

2.) New arcanes have only 1 rank. No stacking required (to compensate for there being a LOT of them in the pool).

 

3.) The resulting Arcane effects drop from wherever you get such things, and are frame-specific.  So if you get the Arcane "Nyx power efficiency" (originally from arcane Vespa),  then it can only be equipped on a Nyx helmet. Any one of them you want.

 

Benefits:

+ Does not punish veteran players or diminish the performance of their loot

+ Gives the possibility of the arcane effects to all players

+ Divorces the old arcane effects from specific helmets

+ Sidesteps out-of-control power creep by keeping the arcanes on the frames they were designed for, and moving forward, any new frame-specific arcanes can be tailored to the frame in question

 

Seems fair.

Any how what I like about the old Arcane system was that there was a drawback to them.

The new systems just circumvents it by adding a proc chance when you do something.

[-CM-Excalibur-]

To those just coming to the topic, and wondering what's going on, I'll try to explain how the discussion has evolved.

 

The topic started with a discussion about the complete removal of Arcane Helmets. (The reasoning behind can be seen below he line, in the original post)

 

In my opinion, any content in this game that would alter builds and optimise gameplay should be accessible to all players, old and new. Originally, I proposed that maybe the Arcane Helmets should instead be completely removed, but also give players who had them some form of compensation. The intention for this would be to put all players at the same advantage.

 

Since removing them is far too radical a change, and after a lot of communication and feedback, it seems that bringing them back into the game via events and the such is a much better idea, so that new players can gain these benefits like us veterans can. This way, all players can have an equal opportunity.

 

Another alternative suggested would be to reintegrate the original arcane effects into new arcanes, obtainable in future raids, with some slightly tweaked stats. This would mean that older player would have access to the fully ranked arcane effects on their helmets, but it would also give players the opportunity to obtain them from raids.

 

Nobody should feel as if they "missed out" on this content, as the helmets were accessible through timed mission alerts in the past. A re-circulation of the Arcane helmets into events, much like how old event weapons are being treated, may be a fair way for newer players to obtain them.

 

 

 

And, just as promised, here is the original post.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

OP

 

As title reads.

 

The old Arcane helmets should have gone a long time ago. Back then, I'm glad they didn't go, but now, it's become more and more apparent that their presence is kinda harming the game. It's not a huge issue, but the way I see it is:

 

 - Newer players are at a disadvantage, not having access to these helmets without forking out

 - Most Arcane helmets have negligible downsides, whilst having perks that are definitly worth having (e.g. Arcane Pendragon, Arcane Vanguard, Arcane Aura, etc.)

 - Arcane helmets have an effect on player's decision on whether to make their frame look visually more appealing or to function better in game

 

If it were down to me, I'd just outright get rid of them and give out refunds for the players who had them, myself included. I don't particularly mind what kind of refund that would be, but anything would be better at this rate. I want to use my alternate stylised helmets, and by all means I do use them. But being constantly reminded that my frame would be more powerful if I just wore the uglier helmet sucks a lot.

 

One of the perks of this game is its crazy amounts of customisation. If old Arcane Helmets impede on that trait, I say they should be "demoted" to their statless counterparts. And if DE do plan on giving out some kind of compensation, they definitely should not let the community know what kind of compensation that would be, lest we get another situation like the time Steel Charge was nerfed.

you just want a legendary core thats why you want it gone. Lol tbh that arcane swindle helmet helps my disarm range reach 250% so thats good so dont think of takin it off.

[IANOBW]

Well, I'm back again.

 

 

 

@SYL3NZR - Just woah. You need to calm down, man. Nobody here is an idiot, and everyone is here to discuss there opinion.

 

@Lightsmith - I mean, you could have maybe read the OP first, but whatever. Continue to look past the fact that the topic has moved on. Be mad all you want.

 

@Vampire Pirate - You did it again. You took one part of the post and based your arguement solely on that. How exactly did I contradict myself? I'm not demanding anything, I'm suggesting change, and you seem to do is get mad at me for making valid points while you struggle to do the same. Just saying that "Ugh, I don't like this thread" isn't valid either. Just move on if you don't agree. Simple.

 

@BAD9eR - Yep, but there are many players who didn't and got the helmets through timed alerts instead.

 

@Momaw - This. This could work. +1 to you.

 

@low1991 - Well, for a start, that's not equivalent exchange, since the trade chat is a free market, there is no real predefined universal value. Secondly, this thread is about giving access to those stat changes to all players - it's fine if you aren't interested, but many still wish to have them, and since many of us were able to get these helmets from alerts (basically for free) back in the day, I see no issue in somehow bringing the stats back for all to use if they wish.

 

@Vesiga - Please don't be so offended. You might want to reread the OP first, but more importantly read the last 2 pages of discussion, where suggestions to bring back old arcane stats in similar ways to how arcane enhancements are currently implemented are being talked about.

 

@BladeOfRuin - I don't know where/how you managed to correlate the OP to "I want legendary cores". If you've been paying attention to the topic in the past 2 pages and maybe if you actually read the updated OP, you'd realise we've moved on from the topic of the entire removal of helmets, and have focused on way to bring them back.