Mk1 Furis Op [Megathread]

[-InV-igo95862]

Except, capacity doesnt mean a damn thing when it comes to damage. I like the gun but because of its lower damage capability, i dont touch it. Because i can kill faster with my Daikyuu or Hek. I dont like the fact that normal karak outguns you. 

 

Their damage statistics should be same, not worse.

 

Karak Wraith sustained DPS is higher then regular Karak. If you are planning on firing in long sequences Karak Wraith outperforms Karak.

[-FV-Metheria]

The MK1-Furis/Furis is one of the few weapons the community generally agrees is a bit too powerful. It boasts good accuracy, a decent mag size, and great DPS. There really is no reason not to use it if you enjoy auto weapons. I think the best nerf would be a direct hit to it's mag size, ammo capacity and a much longer reload speed, so that you need to land just about every shot in the mag to kill someone. It would reward those who get very accurate, while preventing just anyone from picking it up and dominating. The reload speed nerf would make it unviable as a weapon to fight groups with alone, and the overall ammo capacity in exchange for a weapon that can kill very fast if you are accurate.

[Dumfing]

So, twin vipers reskin?

Edit: (Sorry, didn't realize this was for pvp. don't know enough about pvp 2.0 to say anything :p)

Edited October 30, 2015 by Dumfing

[Pythadragon]

I think the real issue is puncture damage being overpowered and needing a rework.

 

In the meantime, I'd suggest a straight 20% damage nerf for both pistols.

OR

Redistribute the damage on all Furis pistols to be more balanced rather than Puncture heavy

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/551581-analysis-why-the-furis-lack-of-high-rof-puncture-weapons/

[Vyrn]

So far, DE has not tweaked utility stats at all for Conclave. Only damage is altered, as far as I know.

Reduce the damage a bit so Furis/Mk1 don't have the same dps as Dex Furis but with more accuracy/control. No, really, they all have roughly 300 dps. That makes no sense for the single variants.

[stoybot]

I silently judge people who use Furis/MK1-Furis but I'm not entirely shocked that matches are usually full of these two pistols - they're extremely effective. The biggest cancer are Mags that run around with Furises... If you get hit with Shield Polarize, you're dead on the spot (assuming the Mag has a visual on you).

[Nighttide77]

>_>

 

I think DPS for autos needs to be normalized to 300, burst weapons to about 330.  The difference between weapons will be handling via RoF, reload, and recoil.

 

There's nothing wrong with the Furis series...it's just the current easiest-to-use weapon, much like how the MK-1 Braton used to be.

 

I think I see that the OP doesn't want to nerf the DPS, but doing anything else would just make them into another variant of the Vipers...and we don't need that.

[taiiat]

Redistribute the damage on all Furis pistols to be more balanced rather than Puncture heavy

which is the best option. could still be Puncture Weighted, but not as extremely so.

instead of ~70% Puncture, more around 50%, with 30% to either Impact or Slash, and the remaining 20% to the last.

 

so perhaps 18 Puncture, 11 of either Impact or Slash, and 7.5 of the third.

(based off of MK-1 Furis - just what i already had Equipped from comparing stats previously)

Edited October 30, 2015 by taiiat

[Pythadragon]

>_>

 

I think DPS for autos needs to be normalized to 300, burst weapons to about 330.  The difference between weapons will be handling via RoF, reload, and recoil.

 

There's nothing wrong with the Furis series...it's just the current easiest-to-use weapon, much like how the MK-1 Braton used to be.

 

I think I see that the OP doesn't want to nerf the DPS, but doing anything else would just make them into another variant of the Vipers...and we don't need that.

 

Furis/Mk1 Furis dps is 300. But so is Braton. Even so, Furis is more effective than braton due to puncture bias.

 

DPS is insufficient as a measurement for actual effectiveness. See:

 

---------

 

VS Ash Prime***

Braton: 35.1@8.8rps = 309 dps

Furis: 30@10rps = 300 dps

mk1 Furis: 36.5@8.3rps = 303 dps

 

------

 

Now let's look at reality: Rounds to kill + Time to kill*.

 

VS Ash Prime at full health + full shields

Braton: 9.7 rounds, (9.7-1)/8.8 = 0.99 ttk

Furis: 10 rounds, (9.5-1)/10 = 0.85 ttk

Mk 1 Furis: 7.7 rounds, (7.7-1)/8.3 = 0.81 ttk

 

When Ash prime has full health/shields, Furis series has a 15-20% advantage even though identical dps to Braton.

 

And what happens when Ash Prime's shields are down?

Braton: 5.4 rounds / 0.5 ttk

Furis: 4.05 rounds / 0.4 ttk

Mk 1 Furis: 4.05 rounds / 0.37 ttk

 

When Ash prime has zero shields, Furis series now has a 25 - 35% advantage even though identical dps to Braton.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Nighttide77]

-snip-

 

When I said normalized, I meant with puncture and stuff taken into account.  My bad.

[Lordricker]

The MK1-Furis/Furis is one of the few weapons the community generally agrees is a bit too powerful. It boasts good accuracy, a decent mag size, and great DPS. There really is no reason not to use it if you enjoy auto weapons. I think the best nerf would be a direct hit to it's mag size, ammo capacity and a much longer reload speed, so that you need to land just about every shot in the mag to kill someone. It would reward those who get very accurate, while preventing just anyone from picking it up and dominating. The reload speed nerf would make it unviable as a weapon to fight groups with alone, and the overall ammo capacity in exchange for a weapon that can kill very fast if you are accurate.

 

I would rather it be friendly to the newbies (since its cheep and easily accessed) and nerf dmg that way it is good and easy to use at the start but the higher the lvl of players the more it falls off, there are other weapons that reward being accurate not exactly sure an auto secondary should be that kind

[atom]

Karak Wraith sustained DPS is higher then regular Karak. If you are planning on firing in long sequences Karak Wraith outperforms Karak.

you can plan that all you want but this would only count for static targets. none of those in PvP

[rockscl]

sustained dps over time is the reason why mk1 furis is used over vastos which completelly destroys furis in the paper, its 80 per shot with a completely balanced IPS, being able to put pressure for an extended time is one of the most valuable assets in furis and the weakness of vasto

Edited November 1, 2015 by rockscl

[Shin]

Karak Wraith sustained DPS is higher then regular Karak. If you are planning on firing in long sequences Karak Wraith outperforms Karak.

Asuming both parties has the same skill level, sustained DPS means nothing. Even if it did, weapon swap mods makes it irrelevant since you can pull out your spray and pray weapon and finish the target easily.

[Lord_Noctus]

@shin

nope its important i can tell from my experience. ive played many different people in search of members for my clan and depending on the playstyle it can be very important to the point where the karak is outperformed by the good old braton prime. switching weapons still need its time and in that time u will have dmg income from opponent.

[Shin]

@shin

nope its important i can tell from my experience. ive played many different people in search of members for my clan and depending on the playstyle it can be very important to the point where the karak is outperformed by the good old braton prime. switching weapons still need its time and in that time u will have dmg income from opponent.

We're talking about Karak and Karak Wraith, i havent compared the both but still my point stands. Asuming both ends are good at what they are doing, karak will outperform Karak Wraith.

 

Edit: I mean i havent compared Braton and Karak

Edited November 1, 2015 by Shin

[Lord_Noctus]

they should be same good. it depends on playstyle thats why its hard to tell.

[Yannik1]

Karak is balanced.Total ammo pool lasts only two-three encounters before you need ammo refill esp. against good opponents.With the Wraith what you lose in burst you gain by staying in the action longer, very important  in Warfrane pvp you have to deal with a number of opponents in quick succession.1v1 is a different case but rare in this game though

[Phasedragon]

Karak is balanced.Total ammo pool lasts only two-three encounters before you need ammo refill esp. against good opponents.With the Wraith what you lose in burst you gain by staying in the action longer, very important  in Warfrane pvp you have to deal with a number of opponents in quick succession.1v1 is a different case but rare in this game though

 

 

Ammo capacity is not a good reason for balance in a pvp mode. For one, there are ammo packs everywhere, super easy to refill. Two, once you kill someone, so what if you're low on ammo? You're not forced to fight, you can just run and get more. In a pve game where ammo economy counts, you might prefer something that's more efficient. However in pvp, ammo doesn't matter unless it's like a oneshot ultracannon or something.

Edited November 2, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[Yannik1]

Ammo capacity is not a good reason for balance in a pvp mode. For one, there are ammo packs everywhere, super easy to refill. Two, once you kill someone, so what if you're low on ammo? You're not forced to fight, you can just run and get more. In a pve game where ammo economy counts, you might prefer something that's more efficient. However in pvp, ammo doesn't matter unless it's like a oneshot ultracannon or something.

Ammo capacity does matter because when there are a few ppl using Karaks everyone is hunting for ammo lol.If it didnt matter there would not be a need for ammo refills and apparently it is used for balancing in this game since the highest burst DPS guns need continuous refills which like I said means wasted time...btw I rarely use the gun for this reason alone

Edited November 2, 2015 by Yannik1

[Phasedragon]

Ammo capacity does matter because when there are a few ppl using Karaks everyone is hunting for ammo lol.If it didnt matter there would not be a need for ammo refills and apparently it is used for balancing in this game since the highest burst DPS guns need continuous refills which like I said means wasted time...btw I rarely use the gun for this reason alone

 

That's just not the case. There are just so many ammo packs that you don't even have to know where they all are to get them. They respawn so fast that unless you're tailing someone and they picked it up just then, it'll be there. I play so often that I know where most are, but even on maps I'm not as sure about, I can still find ammo very easily. That is, of course, not to mention that if you die, you respawn with full ammo.

[Yannik1]

Lets agree to disagree lol.Do you remember when mag size mods increased total ammo pool?They nerfed that for some reason..

[rockscl]

ammo and magazine matters because it gives constant pressure and thus supression, and that is why mk1 furis is used as a primary weapon instead of vasto, i doubt any one can bring any decent argument against this

Edited November 2, 2015 by rockscl

[Shin]

ammo and magazine matters because it gives constant pressure and thus supression, and that is why mk1 furis is used as a primary weapon instead of vasto, i doubt any one can bring any decent argument against this

Wrong. Take Dex Furis and MK1 Furis for example. If both were to spraying at each other, MK1 Furis would murder instantly supression means nothing in the face of immediate death.

 

I cant really talk for Vasto Prime but Akvasto's are pretty broken when people use macros. I've seen pretty abnormal shooting speeds or maybe im seeing things.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

Wrong. Take Dex Furis and MK1 Furis for example. If both were to spraying at each other, MK1 Furis would murder instantly supression means nothing in the face of immediate death.

I cant really talk for Vasto Prime but Akvasto's are pretty broken when people use macros. I've seen pretty abnormal shooting speeds or maybe im seeing things.

I've seen ak lato's fire as fast as a soma on Xbox one, some people are legit others arnt