Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Artekkor]

You think?

Have you actually played her....... and tested her dmg? lol.....

For real? Nope. Sold her months ago after rank 30 because did not found her to be fun for me. Or nice-looking...

Now, after rework, i'm actually interested in building her, but i'm afraid to do so because next prime access is most likely to be Saryn, which means all the formas and reactor that i'll put in her will be wasted.

So, i'll wait for Saryn Prime.

This will be a double win for me if she is as bad as you say she is. The devstream demonstartion seemed kinda nice. Not like i was expecting level 50 ancients to die in 2 seconds. They have plenty of health and 25% resist to toxin damage.

In the worst case: there is 3 whole months for her to be buffed before i'll play her.

[--Sensei--]

For real? Nope. Sold her months ago after rank 30 because did not found her to be fun for me. Or nice-looking...

Now, after rework, i'm actually interested in building her, but i'm afraid to do so because next prime access is most likely to be Saryn, which means all the formas and reactor that i'll put in her will be wasted.

So, i'll wait for Saryn Prime.

This will be a double win for me if she is as bad as you say she is. The devstream demonstartion seemed kinda nice. Not like i was expecting level 50 ancients to die in 2 seconds. They have plenty of health and 25% resist to toxin damage.

In the worst case: there is 3 whole months for her to be buffed before i'll play her.

I guess you have pretty low expectations so you dont get disappointed huh.

[Artekkor]

A nerf is anything that lowers something's effectiveness. Saryn is now less effective at quickly killing enemies. That makes this a nerf whether you like it or not.

Saryn is a poison Warframe, as i see it - she's not supposed to murder them all in one second, they must die slowly from poisons.

We have Ogris and Tonkor for such things.

[Sovog]

Hi,

 

Saryn is my favorite and most used frame. After login today I was excited to see there is new skin - I bought it immediately. And was happy to see there will be some positive changes to her abilities.

 

BUT!!!!

 

What happened to her Miasma ability is totally un understandable!!! I tried Void Mobile defense 1 and I cannot kill with miasma Heavy Gunner or Corupted Ancient. It does not make much damage to them on level 13.

(I have same mod set like yesterday).

 

This is totally crazy situation. Similar situation is with other enemies not talking about high level enemies. Either its some kind of error or you have totally buried this frame to ashes.

 

It is total nonsense that the strongest ability of frame is not able to kill level 13 enemy... how can this frame be useful on higher level enemies?

 

I am playing now this game total game time 46D 16H and see how through time changes affect game negatively. If this will continue it might happen I will stop invest my time into playing game which ruins every single enjoyable frames, weapons etc.              

                                                                                                                                          

Hope you will revisit the negative changes you made to Saryn miasma ability!

 

thanks Sovog

[RiouHotaru]

with 184% power strength miasma deal 644 damage per second over x seconds in my case 3.81.  644x3.81= 2453 damage over all ticks. that is absolutely horrible damage. Even after the multipliers from both spore and lash the best damage you can hope for is 2453x2=4907 total damage. 

 

you have 54% less damage then that in your build divided over a much larger timeframe. 

 

That is not oomph  that is just sad.   You kill faster with just pressing E on your melee weapon then that. 

 

Also 600 energy is not a whooping  lot when eatch single combo of your synergy skills is 17.50+35+70= 122.5 energy per cast of a single combo of  spore+lash+miasma

 

spore +lash is still 17.50+35= 52.5 energy 600/52.5= 11.4 times that is the max you can use your combo. 

 

With that low damage you still kill faster with just melee for zero energy cost.  By the time you have spread your dots and waited for them to kill any other frame would have killed the enemies and moved on already. 

 

You also missed tha fact that the range of Molt does not infact increase with range mods its bugged and is stuck at a 10 meter radius.  This is very simple to check in game. 

 

also what content are you playing? starchart is largely irrelevant due to the lowe level of enemies and how slow they scale. Any frame can kill everything in the starchart without issue.

 

Again, you assume I'm ALWAYS shooting for the Spore + Toxic Lash + Miasma.

 

Also, since Spores SPREAD when exploded I'm not recasting it all that often, or continuously.  Yes, I can only do  11.4 times, but I'm gaining energy via pick-ups, or party member Energy Siphons, or even from Rage in-between casts.  Also, since other toxic weapons can explode Spores as well, I can use the Torid, Acrid, Embolist, or the Cerata  All of which means I don't even to cast Toxic Lash unless I feel like running into melee.

 

And I've been doing void.  T4 Intercepts and T3 MDs.

[Nuru]

Well, frames with press 4 to win have to change sooner or later. The unrewarding grind is the real issue. You like new raid? how about some resist arcanes? Now you can play creatively to win the same raid taking 15-20mins longer, or you can optimize the setup.

 

Its good you are aware and focus on what you think is important, but reward is often the primary motivating factor for us to play any particular mission. When you deal with RNG and need to repeat the same thing 50 times, I would want to save time each run. This may mean excluding Saryn, unless people develop a viable build/role for her. I would think a lot of people, getting the gear you want gives a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction.

 

That being said, the rework is not impressive compared to what they have done for other frames. You can chain combos but that's a massive energy drain and it is slow. Rework and nerf is not mutually exclusive I'm afraid. Fun is also subjective, some players I know trade all day to make plat and have fun. Now obviously wf is not a trading game.

[Artekkor]

I guess you have pretty low expectations so you dont get disappointed huh.

Probably that. As long as my frame can get through T4 void mission (not endless) without dying once without quick thinking equiped - i'm fine with it.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Artek94

[Sovog]

with 184% power strength miasma deal 644 damage per second over x seconds in my case 3.81.  644x3.81= 2453 damage over all ticks. that is absolutely horrible damage. Even after the multipliers from both spore and lash the best damage you can hope for is 2453x2=4907 total damage. 

 

you have 54% less damage then that in your build divided over a much larger timeframe. 

 

That is not oomph  that is just sad.   You kill faster with just pressing E on your melee weapon then that. 

 

Also 600 energy is not a whooping  lot when eatch single combo of your synergy skills is 17.50+35+70= 122.5 energy per cast of a single combo of  spore+lash+miasma

 

spore +lash is still 17.50+35= 52.5 energy 600/52.5= 11.4 times that is the max you can use your combo. 

 

With that low damage you still kill faster with just melee for zero energy cost.  By the time you have spread your dots and waited for them to kill any other frame would have killed the enemies and moved on already. 

 

You also missed tha fact that the range of Molt does not infact increase with range mods its bugged and is stuck at a 10 meter radius.  This is very simple to check in game. 

 

also what content are you playing? starchart is largely irrelevant due to the lowe level of enemies and how slow they scale. Any frame can kill everything in the starchart without issue.

Totally agree now miasma is totally useless and you can do more damage with other frames or just using weapons. Hope its a mistake and will be fixed by hotfix!!!

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sovog

[TheFalseEclipse]

Saryn while it lost the ultimate single 4 for the win, it overall dps is improved on combo, a lot due to viral spreading everywhere

[Takaani]

After playing around in the simulcron, I've come to the conclusion that most of the changes need to be made to Spore. The viral proc needs to spread on death of the host, and the range of said spread needs to be doubled, if not tripled. I'm fine with needing to use spore to do any decent damage with miasma, but please make it at least possible to get more than two or three enemies at a time procced in any length of time.

[MadSummoner2]

Hi,

 

Saryn is my favorite and most used frame. After login today I was excited to see there is new skin - I bought it immediately. And was happy to see there will be some positive changes to her abilities.

 

BUT!!!!

 

What happened to her Miasma ability is totally un understandable!!! I tried Void Mobile defense 1 and I cannot kill with miasma Heavy Gunner or Corupted Ancient. It does not make much damage to them on level 13.

(I have same mod set like yesterday).

 

This is totally crazy situation. Similar situation is with other enemies not talking about high level enemies. Either its some kind of error or you have totally buried this frame to ashes.

 

It is total nonsense that the strongest ability of frame is not able to kill level 13 enemy... how can this frame be useful on higher level enemies?

 

I am playing now this game total game time 46D 16H and see how through time changes affect game negatively. If this will continue it might happen I will stop invest my time into playing game which ruins every single enjoyable frames, weapons etc.              

                                                                                                                                          

Hope you will revisit the negative changes you made to Saryn miasma ability!

 

thanks Sovog

Yeah, now Sarina melee-frame.

Now they are with the Mesa will gather dust on the shelf

Edited November 5, 2015 by MadSummoner2

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Saryn is a poison Warframe, as i see it - she's not supposed to murder them all in one second, they must die slowly from poisons.

We have Ogris and Tonkor for such things.

Which is completely irrelevant to whether this is a nerf or not.  And like you just admitted, there us no point in trying to kill them slowly -wasting energy too- when our weapons can out DPS S's skills.

 

 

Probably that. As long as my frame can get through T4 void mission (not endless) without dying once without quick thinking equiped - i'm fine with it.

Then your opnion is completely worthless.  There is no frame that can't do that, and if they buff a frame, as we are asking, the frame would still meet your criteria either way.

Edited November 5, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Sovog]

so let me get this straight....

you nerf the  out of miasma and you're expecting us to support in your endeavor by purchasing the new skin?

that's very funny.

 

thank you for making another frame useless

Yeah i was stupid to purchase skin prior to trying her, now am sad that she seems buried to ashes...

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sovog

[XAlFias]

tried 5-10 different build and combos  ..nothing ... she doesnt have a fraction of her power anymore .... 

 

 

but i gotta give props to DE ..... nerf something to oblivion , even her health, then call it a "Rework" , lmfao ..... 

 

judging by the way how the DEVs ignored the initial reaction by saying "community always hates things like this"  in last week's DEVstream , i'd say .... this was it i guess .... shes done ..... so , it would be pretty unwise to buy her latest skin  i guess , not saying u should not , its ur plat ,, dowhacchaa want .... i just dont wanna throw 165 plats to something ill never use ....from this day onward ....  :'(

[Archwizard]

From what I've seen so far, the complaints about Saryn post-update fall into two major categories:

 

- Miasma is no longer as "Press 4 (and only 4) to Win" nuke viable, and she is thereby harder to min-max because it's no longer as simple as throwing on Transient Fortitude and Fleeting Expertise. 

Players who take issue here completely missed the point that you're not supposed to just be pressing one button (it's called "gameplay" for a reason, so you better get used to it, particularly if you play others that way), and that the increased value of Duration (which affects all of her abilities) significantly alters her energy cost over time, particularly where Toxic Lash is concerned.

"But the effective cost of a cast!" I can already hear them say. Yes, the effective cost of just Miasma is increased, but out of it you get other benefits such as Viral status spread and increased melee damage.

Personally, I'm just relieved that I won't be crowded out in as many leisurely public matches by someone going one-man-army with Miasma spam. (Instead I just need to worry about people with infinite World on Fire and cheaper Radial Javelins...)

 

I will agree that an issue with the Miasma change is that it doesn't confer any scalability to the output of the power, so I suggest a simple addition to address this point:

Miasma ticks each have a 100% chance to proc Corrosive.

The chance could be less than 100% so long as it's reasonably high. Corrosive is one of the only statuses left that can stack its effects, and Miasma's ability to tick multiple times in one cast can compensate.

 

- Saryn's EHP was dropped.

Personally, I didn't catch straightaway that she lost 25 base HP, but the math shows that she loses 15% EHP before mods.

Previous EHP at rank 30: (150*3) * (1+(155/455)) = 603Current EHP at rank 30: (125*3) * (1+(175/475)) = 513 513/603 = ~85%

Admittedly, this one I can understand the complaint about simply due to the failure in communication; Rebecca hyped that her EHP would get buffed and the correction to this was not pointed out until 20 minutes after the update dropped. (Not trying to shoot the messenger here - as Rebecca pointed out, it was last minute tuning.)

 

Less-frequently mentioned, but occasionally touched upon nonetheless, is an issue that has plagued Saryn since around Update 13 (an oversight caused by what would be seen as an unrelated change to general gameplay): 

- Contagion (and its successor Toxic Lash) is absolutely worthless if you're not carrying a melee weapon.

In fact, today's update merely compounded this fact due to the number of benefits heaped purely onto this effect: Increased damage, ability to pop Spores with melee, and increased blocking effectiveness. But if you decide you just want to level your Soma Prime, 3 is a waste of energy - not in the overstated "the value of this ability is low" sense, but in that it literally confers zero benefit to someone without melee. While other Warframes have abilities that strongly urge you to bring a melee weapon to maximize their potential, Toxic Slash is unparalleled in its reliance on your loadout. Other abilities that put focus on melee confer additional benefits upon the caster in the eventuality that they choose not to carry one - Radial Blind and Paralysis are still CC, Warcry has an enemy debuff and allied armor buff, Speed has a movement bonus, etc. - and in several of these cases, the frame can also provide their own applicable weapon as part of their natural abilities.

 

So, I propose a simple solution that will kill the latter two birds with one stone:

Toxic Lash no longer affects Saryn's ability to block with a melee weapon. Instead, Saryn receives mitigation at all times while Toxic Lash is active, regardless of equipped weapon.

Increased mitigation would make up for the drop in EHP (as I'm sure was the intention with the blocking bonus), while a general benefit would make the ability useful in the event that you don't have a melee weapon (as you can already detonate Spores with rifles). The mitigation cap can remain, of course.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Archwizard

[Artekkor]

Which is completely irrelevant to whether this is a nerf or not. And like you just admitted, there us no point in trying to kill them slowly -wasting energy too- when our weapons can out DPS S's skills.

Then your opnion is completely worthless. There is no frame that can't do that, and if they buff a frame, as we are asking, the frame would still meet your criteria either way.

This was always the case. And this is why all damage-based framed are bad at current state of the game's balance. We can mod our weapons for x10 more damage with almost no drawbacks, but powers? x3 at best and with terrible drawbacks.

Or it might just be that powers never supposed to be good at killing in the first place. Bonus damage and ammo saver, not a replacament. What are weapons for then?

Come on, you can insta viral proc an enemy to reduce his health by 50%. Only this already makes Saryn good for something.

All those toxins are for saving ammo or to leave enemy to die.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Artek94

[bubbabenali]

It just hit me like a truck. Not only was Miasma strangely powerfull but her other three abilities where useless as S#&$.

And now that one can't blast through with Miasma anymore but also has to use her trash moves it's obvious she needed a complete rework not a enforced synergy patchwork.

[YasaiTsume]

Saryn's is a buff actually.

People just gotta figure out how to combo the abilities out and make full use of her kit.

Might sound harsh but, lazy people will not enjoy Saryn anymore.

Here is a combo for yu guys to try out : Molt > Spore Molt > Molt again when enemies are near to trigger both boom booms > Miasma > Magic

[Artekkor]

Saryn's is a buff actually.

People just gotta figure out how to combo the abilities out and make full use of her kit.

Might sound harsh but, lazy people will not enjoy Saryn anymore.

Here is a combo for yu guys to try out : Molt > Spore Molt > Molt again when enemies are near to trigger both boom booms > Miasma > Magic

This guy gets it.

I like you.

[The-Matrix]

One of the main problem of Saryn is her survability at close range, it was already quite case before but since her ult was able to deal huge dmg it wasnt tht much emphasized...

But now since DE tends to make her a hybrid caster/melee frame, she is quite terrible. Not enough damage, too many energy consomption and already very squishy vs level 40 void ennemies.

Her armor need to be boosted significally and/or power energy cost decreased. Molt's regen need to heal quicker and not being affected by duration, it's a drawback.

Plus now in her state Saryn need power, efficiency and duration + armor mod+health mod+ rage + molt augment mod to be able to survive decently (and w/o being op) but of course you dont have enough room for that.

 

In short term, Saryn need a lot of attention right now to be effective.

[Oriviagene]

agree,saryn now have a fun(and good) play-style

classic dumb players,still yelling and complain for the changes(cuz no more press 4 to win),make combos?nhaaa too hard we want the easy win(i saw people complain for the "hard" combo you have to do,for a bulletjump,then i suppose make combos with saryn by pressing differents buttons It is out of their reach...."),whatever GJ De now saryn is fun and enjoyable

This

[RiouHotaru]

Where are people getting this idea that Saryn was a 'caster' frame?  She was clearly a mid-range/melee frame.  Her only real 'caster' power is her Ult.

[Koler.]

I just tried full Melee build on her. Even with Toxic Lash and augments, she is useless on enemies above lvl 30. The weapon does all the work while I'm just running around and trying to survive by spamming Regenerative Molt. I even tried adding Rush mod to her to make her faster in combat and yet it's only hurts me more in the end. Also if I want melee frame I will just go full Valkyr. They not even balanced her. They just "nuked" her and she is completely useless now. I would be alright if they only nerfed miasma but made her other abilities stronger. But they were just like "nah let's just ravage her till her own mother won't recognize her"

Edited November 5, 2015 by Koler.

[--Sensei--]

Saryn's is a buff actually.

People just gotta figure out how to combo the abilities out and make full use of her kit.

Might sound harsh but, lazy people will not enjoy Saryn anymore.

Here is a combo for yu guys to try out : Molt > Spore Molt > Molt again when enemies are near to trigger both boom booms > Miasma > Magic

 

so 200 energy spent for nothing, gotcha

[Cookedtoast]

so 200 energy spent for nothing, gotcha

This guy gets it.

I like you.