Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[ShioriShi]

Kinda expected people will complain, yeah she aint the nuke she used to be, and honestly thats good. However she does have some serious issues atm.

A major one is the cost of her skills, as you kinda want to use your skills in combination now this really ups the energy drain you and its very hard to keep up with it (yes I use streamline and energy refills). A second problem is Spore.. I know people wont agree but really... it should be changed to being a AoE. As it is its hard to tag proper target with it in a heated battle... yeah I could take my time and aim.. but I could also take my time and use my Tonkor...

So yeah potential but still in need of some fixing.

[Sannidor]

DE, you don't seem to listen to players feedback for a while. Does criticism block your creativity? 

 

Saryn's rework is bad but how we can judge before having primed version?

 

The core of this issue is all primed frames being straightforward upgrades instead of sidegrades. Even the energy boost from Void spheres makes them little more user friendly when obtaining more primed gear.

 

Sure, Saryn needs more HP but I would be ok with Saryn Prime having less armor but more energy or any trade making standard frame not inferior in ALL ways.

 

Synergy between powers is nice but didn't Limbo teach you to not over-complicate frames?

 

My main beef is another (still) useless first power.

 

1 - Make Saryn blast much larger spores in front of her, sticking to surfaces as well as enemies or friendly units, creating useful traps. Just do it. This SHOULD NOT require enemy in sight. Also, do not make them disappear over time, instead make limited number of spores based on Intensify and other mods power level.

 

2 - Molt should be her "panic button" with Saryn having passive "don't touch me I'm poisonous" effect.

 

3 - Lash is irrelevant, melee is useless and in hands of frame with no iron skin or invisibility it's a joke ability. 

 

4 - Miasma should debuff enemies permanently. All ultimate powers should scale with enemies or affect them in significant way.

 

 

One more thing - augments are cancer. Are new frames powers created together with their augments or is it still voted by idiots from council? Not offending anyone, this should not be a matter of voting, ever.

 

See how many of augments are useful - 5, maybe 6? Another few are insanely situational. 

 

I fear now that PvP is a "thing" new frames are also nerfed for conclave use before they could even shine in PvE.

 

RIP one trick pony useful Saryn    ;____;

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sannidor

[Hitexh]

I miss the old saryn. Minus duration is never been a good choice anymore now.

[DraccoDoom]

Horrid, I tested in simulacrum at normal T4 condition (a Group of>1 H Gunner, 1 Bombard, 3lancers, 2 Crewman, 1 Shield Dron, 1 Crrupted Ancient)

 

So what if I have more energy if I need several combos to take this small group down it takes around 200 energy + melee atacks.

 

The amount or energy and time it takes to pull any decent dmg is way to high. having biger energy pool does not offset the way bigger energy draw, yes I can cast it more but how do I get the energy back ??

 

I would have to use big energy restore every minute when before normal energy drops from enemies were enough. You want us to go high duration but that impossible because that means high energy draw when we have so many powers to cast to make it work using her.

 

Not to mention that the dmg from combo is not anything to sing songs about, the actual viral proc and small cc is WAY more useful then the dmg but I can get similar effect on a CC frame with a Viral weapon on and use way less energy.

 

I'm not gona buy the new skin because as it stands now, Saryn goes to the freezer so why waste plat on something I will not use??

 

My personal opinion for retweak Saryn , a big FAIL.

Edited November 5, 2015 by DraccoDoom

[Volinus7]

Before .... Press 4 to win

Now .....Press 211111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111114 to win

[TheBrsrkr]

DE, you don't seem to listen to players feedback for a while. Does criticism block your creativity?

Saryn's rework is bad but how we can judge before having primed version?

The core of this issue is all primed frames being straightforward upgrades instead of sidegrades. Even the energy boost from Void spheres makes them little more user friendly when obtaining more primed gear.

Sure, Saryn needs more HP but I would be ok with Saryn Prime having less armor but more energy or any trade making standard frame not inferior in ALL ways.

Synergy between powers is nice but didn't Limbo teach you to not over-complicate frames?

My main beef is another (still) useless first power.

1 - Make Saryn blast much larger spores in front of her, sticking to surfaces as well as enemies or friendly units, creating useful traps. Just do it.

2 - Molt should be her "panic button" with Saryn having passive "don't touch me I'm poisonous" effect.

3 - Lash is irrelevant, melee is useless and in hands of frame with no iron skin or invisibility it's a joke ability.

4 - Miasma should debuff enemies permanently. All ultimate powers should scale with enemies or affect them in significant way.

One more thing - augments are cancer. Are new frames powers created together with their augments or is it still voted by idiots from council? Not offending anyone, this should not be a matter of voting, ever.

See how many of augments are useful - 5, maybe 6? Another few are insanely situational.

I fear now that PvP is a "thing" new frames are also nerfed for conclave use before they could even shine in PvE.

RIP one trick pony useful Saryn ;____;

Oh boy, one of these.....

Firstly, this has nothing to do with Saryn Prime, at all. More health isn't going to magically fix all her problems.

Next up I don't see much feedback around here. I see lots of arguments on what is and isn't acceptable but even in THIS thread, the thread created by our liaison with DE, people came here to whine and nothing else. "This rework sucks" why? Against what? How do we fix it? "GG DE I'M DONE saryn is useless frame now" because so much gets done when that happens.

Not every augment in the game was voted on by the DC. About half of them were, and some didn't even win the poll and ended up as augments anyway. Augments were not designed to buff the ability, but to change how you use it.

And thinking that frames are nerfed for PvE when almost none of the frames have identical PvP and PvE stats is quite simply ridiculous.

[coier]

I don't really understand what this rework is trying to achieve. DE needs to stop punishing farming tools or change their game. I believe everyone is missing the point on this change on whether or not nerfing saryn but making her more "fun" is good. Let me explain:

 

Greedy pull mag was making farming and material gathering less tedious? Killed.

Mesa peacemaker is too strong and "braindead" but makes farming extremely effecient? Killed. (combined with the gmag nerf this was a complete overkill)

Now saryn was all that was left that left that could provide some relief to the grind. Killed.

 

I understand the direction they wanna go on. They want some depth and synergy on the frames. Too much "4" spamming, braindead gameplay with no substance is what they want to avoid. The problem though is that this is not how warframe works. You can't pretend that the game has depth and serious gameplay or some sort of insane mechanics. No. Warframe is a grindfest. That's all it is. You can't be thinking what rotations of the abilities I need or what combos there are or any other micro management they want to implement.

 

No the game is all about macro and EFFICIENCY. Efficient farming, quick completion of missions (with as much less energy expended and i dont mean in game energy but real life energy and exhaustion),specific roles for frames. Even in the missions just think about. How often do you actually care about what is happening in the screen? Like when you are grinding the T4 void defence missions do you actually care about what enemies are coming or how u going to fight them and what combos you going to execute? No you care about your energy, what spells to spam, the general position of the mobs(where are most of them etc), if there is a nullifier in the area to take out first etc etc. The game resembles more an MMO rpg rather than an action RPG.

 

These constant changes that DE wants to implement would have been awesome if the game was actually built COMPELTELY different. However when you have a completely braindead grindfest you can't pretend that your game is something else. Either change the whole gameplay mechanics or dont try to implement stuff that have no place in the game in its current stage.

 

And I believe it really is a shame cause warframe features an awesome movement system, as well as an interesting melee combat so in my opinion it would be really fitting to take a more "micro" approach on the gameplay as a whole. However at this stage as I said this is not how the game runs or feels. At even mid tier game not even late, you will find youself being swarmed with enemies and only caring about the overall situation rather than the specifics of the battlefield.

[DraccoDoom]

Most importantly: he is actually fun AND efficient to play now. I think same just happend to Saryn.

I mean come on... Since when toxins insta kill anyone around? Poisons were always about damage over time, not insta nuking the whole squad of enemies!

Did you test here thou? she's not even in the same ball park as Frost, the huge energy consumption that she has now is in no way viable to play and have fun, bring a S#&$ tone of energy restores with you is what Im trying to say.

[RayPerth]

Can we get a rework on the "4CP" aura too? it's too OP and lazy.

[Artekkor]

Can we get a rework on the "4CP" aura too? it's too OP and lazy.

We sure will

[iSmallfry]

So I've  spent some time in the Simulacrum, experimenting with the new Saryn.

Overall, I think the changes are quite interesting.

Though, I'd like to suggest some changes:

 

Make Molt work similar to Frost's globe.Make Molt invulnerable upon casting and make it absorb damage for its HP-pool for a certain amount of time, is what I mean by that.

 

A lvl 70 Heavy Gunner literally kills Molt with 1 shot, making it unable to do its job in high-level content.

 

Make Toxic Lash give you a "spherical" block, enabling you to block damage from all directions.

 

I really like the additional damage reduction on blocking, Toxic Lash gives you.While it does bypass enough damage to keep you alive, 1 shot from the back will still mean death. I mean, engaging into melee combat, chances are you will have enemies all around you.Also, AoE damage (e.g. Bombard rockets) fucks you up, royally.And no, it wouldn't make Saryn pseudo-immortal, at all.You would still cancel your block upon attacking or casting Miasma, making you think twice about when to go into offense.Also, getting knocked down would still mean certain death.Then there's the fact that the "spherical" block would be tied to a buff, you'd have to make sure to keep up at all times.Don't forget Nullifiers,either.

 

Reduce Miasma's base damage and increase its duration by a lot, and i mean A L-O-T.

 

Make it less of a nuke, more of a DoT.

 

Make Miasma consume Viral and Toxin procs (EDIT : or make Miasma scale with the number of spores on an enemy and make Miasma consume said spores) and make it stackable.Also, make it deal some extra damage for every instance of Miasma on an enemy.

 

Being able to stack up countless instances of Miasma as the fight goes on, resulting in a

"more damage the longer the fight"-playstyle does not only make it much more interesting (in my opnion),it also makes it more viable for lategame content,to a degree.Miasma consuming said procs promotes continous combo-ing, instead of 1-3-into infinite 4 spamming.

 

Increase Miasma's damage bonus on enemies with viral/toxin Procs.Alternatively, leave the bonuses as they are and give an additional multiplier on enemies with BOTH procs (EDIT : or make Miasma scale with the number of spores on an enemy and make Miasma consume said spores).

 

The bonuses felt pretty lackluster.Though, I understand DE didn't want the waveclearing capabilities of Miasma to go out of hand.Now, if DE were to change Miasma into a proper DoT, with less damage per tick but much more duration,they could go a little bit crazy with the multipliers ,to reward combo-ing.

Edited November 5, 2015 by iSmallfry

[Lyselle]

While I kinda like the idea of combos and synergies and whatnot, Saryn's rework is a bit too much.

There are all sorts of combos for Saryn, but as one does higher-tier missions, the intensity to stay alive is higher and sometimes I mess up my controls, sometimes I don't even know whether my Spores has successfully casted on my Molt because I needed to run/jump/fly elsewhere and I'll just cast Miasma after that, waste of energy.

 

Of course, this is pretty much based on player skills.

[(PSN)SancticuS]

Now Saryn seems to be very gimmicky to play and less more straight foreward. Yes there is more synergy but why should I cast Spore on several enemies, cast molt, cast spore on my molt, cast toxic lash, hit enemies with my melee to get the most out of procs and then cast miasma to get max out of my potential? When I simply can shot the enemies with my weapon and get rid of them a lot faster than exhausting all my energy and having to use all my 4 abilities to reach some sort of peak with them?

 

Ok lets make it so that you need to scan a enemy, shot him with your secondary, hit him with your melee to do any damage with your primary weapon. Great synergy and also great fun right? Would you all hail that as a great rework?

 

It has been clear since the very first inception 20 oct:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/548579-developer-workshop-saryn-ability-rework/

 

That people were concerned and had a lot of very good input in regards to this "rework". Nothing happened. It was then shown in a even worse state in the most recent Dev stream and you could literally feel the akwards silences and dismay from the panel when they tried to show of her "great rework" as a buff. Still they went even further and nerfed here EHP and passed it onto the global build.

 

Seriously, how can anyone applaud this complete botching of a warframe as something good?

[DraccoDoom]

I killed whole room of enemies by using Spore on one of them. 

If you thing Saryn sucks now learn how to play her. 

More like your gun did, because spore on its own can do jack S#&$. Or are you running on earth or something??

[Auto2D]

I will state the thing I hated most about the old saryn kit was that the 3 forced melee combat if you wanted to use it, and it still does.
So i had an idea, actually overhaul her 3, so that it ties together her other abilities rather than awkwardly forcing her to go into melee

spore stays as is
moult stays as is

Toxic lash:
Rename it back to contagion, it creates a area of effect cloud around saryn (it doesn't move with her), when an enemy enters the cloud they are slowed, allies (and saryn) in the cloud have increased armour (or scaling damage reduction a-la mirage's eclipse), if a spore is cast onto something in the cloud (enemy, moult or the cloud itself), every enemy in the field gets it.

-slow, armour and no.of effected enemies is affected by power strength
-area size is affected by power range
-cloud is toggled (first press turns it on, 2nd press turns it off, 3rd makes a new cloud at saryn's location (with 1st and 3rd costing power and having a cast animation))
-power cast cost is modified by efficiency (obviously) drains power over time (modified by power duration and efficiency as usual)

contagion cloud (the mod) would apply on enemies within the area of effect

Miasma: 1 small change: casting it within range of a moult detonates the moult (as opposed to now, where it detonates the moult regardless)
1 big addition: When it overlaps with the cloud, proc's corrosive, and detonates all spores on all enemies inside, immidiately dealing the viral damage that the spores would have done to them multiplied by the number of spores on them (as in damage = ((spore damage * ticks left) + (spore 2 damage * ticks left)...) * no.of spores on enemy)

no change to miasma damage (okay maybe a little increase, pretty please?)

admittedly this post is probably going to get lost in the now 21+ pages of this thread, that or TL:DR'd, but nonetheless, this would give saryn 1. some team support potential 2. Some, not all (because face it, the damage on spore is pretty piddly to start with) instant damage back 3. an ability which ties together her abilities, while still being decent on it's own.
 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Auto2D

[bubbabenali]

Now Saryn seems to be very gimmicky to play and less more straight foreward. Yes there is more synergy but why should I cast Spore on several enemies, cast molt, cast spore on my molt, cast toxic lash, hit enemies with my melee to get the most out of procs and then cast miasma to get max out of my potential? When I simply can shot the enemies with my weapon and get rid of them a lot faster than exhausting all my energy and having to use all my 4 abilities to reach some sort of peak with them?

Ok lets make it so that you need to scan a enemy, shot him with your secondary, hit him with your melee to do any damage with your primary weapon. Great synergy and also great fun right? Would you all hail that as a great rework?

It has been clear since the very first inception 20 oct:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/548579-developer-workshop-saryn-ability-rework/

That people were concerned and had a lot of very good input in regards to this "rework". Nothing happened. It was then shown in a even worse state in the most recent Dev stream and you could literally feel the akwards silences and dismay from the panel when they tried to show of her "great rework" as a buff. Still they went even further and nerfed here EHP and passed it onto the global build.

Seriously, how can anyone applaud this complete botching of a warframe as something good?

Yeah absolut this.

Can't believe that the same ppl who did this rework where the same who also made Excaliburs Meleewave blade, the awesome Frost renewal and the Valkyr qol change.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

I've been using saryn a bit since this rework and I can clearly say you don't see the potential. I had a group of the ancient death squad from loka show up on T4 and I only had enough for 2 abilities. So I tagged one with spore and used contagion and just dived into the group. Turns out there is humongous synergy now. Every strike re spread spores between all other enemies essentially creating a loop that and the toxin procs were spread so I was doing high damage to them. It was incredibly satisfying.

Edit: also with a rage/regenerating molt, she can have high reserves in her energy while maintaining her health. A wondrous combo.

I'm gona have to try that when it hits consoles(i hated sayrn before)

[Brachion]

This thread is hilarious. I personally LOVE Saryn's rework; she can actually do more now besides mindlessly spam 4 (spamming 4 still works, of course). And yet people are STILL complaining about it. Ain't human psychology wonderful?

Oh, and for all those freaking out about how Saryn's "not viable" anymore (which isn't really true, BTW): that doesn't matter. Warframe is not a game where you're supposed to run between room instantly killing everything. Each Warframe is supposed to have a unique powerset which you use in creative and fun ways. I'm sorry that you demand that Warframes all conform to a highly specific "meta" where you use one or two abilities over and over and nothing else. Because it's not like they have four or anything, right?

[Sevenof9]

As the title says, thank you DE for the rework on Saryn. With this, playing Saryn is much more action packed now.

[CarrotSalad]

I'm puzzled about DE's priorities in general...Edit:" I would've prefered they looked at and worked on archwing. I never saw saryn as needing that much of a rework."

 

But you know.. they made a fun game... Aslong as they dont destroy whats making it fun...

Edited November 6, 2015 by CarrotSalad

[DSpite]

All i gotta say- level 27 grineer leech eximus didn't die from miasma, both duration and no duration builds. Syndicate weapon proc killed it instantly, syndicate procs is what we have left of classic saryn.

 

Takes 1 cast to kill L30 Heavy Gunners, 2 casts almost exactly to kill L40's

One cast kills level 50 normal units (mixed types)

(This was with 184% Power Strength)

 

Her Effective health totals (Vit/SF/AA)

 

Saryn New: 5037

Saryn Old: 5631

Rhino P: 3604

Oberon: 4606

[Valkyr-Umbra]

I feel like Excalibur has lost endgame power, but became much more fun to play since his rework. Saryn is one of two frames I haven't played yet (Saryn and Oberon, they're my secret shames) so I can't comment on her too much, but we already have plenty of really powerful frames, I personally am curious to see what DE does to her.

[BattledOne]

This thread is hilarious. I personally LOVE Saryn's rework; she can actually do more now besides mindlessly spam 4 (spamming 4 still works, of course). And yet people are STILL complaining about it. Ain't human psychology wonderful?

Oh, and for all those freaking out about how Saryn's "not viable" anymore (which isn't really true, BTW): that doesn't matter. Warframe is not a game where you're supposed to run between room instantly killing everything. Each Warframe is supposed to have a unique powerset which you use in creative and fun ways. I'm sorry that you demand that Warframes all conform to a highly specific "meta" where you use one or two abilities over and over and nothing else. Because it's not like they have four or anything, right?

I don't hate the rework, it's pretty good actually, just needs a few adjustments tbh but that's besides the point. I'm more interested in what do you mean by she can do more than mindlessly spam 4? Her nuking power obviously is nerfed (there's really no arguing it tbh, but it was due to the bug to begin with tho) and she doesn't really have anything to offer besides damage at a very high energy cost.

Edited November 5, 2015 by BattledOne

[DraccoDoom]

What clue? There is no clues. All saryns that i saw were using 4 and only 4, i'm not even sure if anybody ever used her 3rd.

I used her, quickly understood that there is no rewarding for pressing any other button than 4 which does not even work good without goddamn over9000 power strength builds and that's it.

The S#&$ was bad, it looked bad, it played bad... it was bad. Even if it was good.

Now it's not good, but at least it's not the S#&$.

I wonder if this makes sense to anyone but me.

Oh how nice, so even ppl that didn't like nuke Saryn don't like her after rework how nice. Good thing that ppl that like Saryn pre rewok like her still.... oh wait...

[Wotca]

After playing a few sessions of Interception with the new Saryn I'd have to say my favorite part of the rework is playing Ember instead.  While I too can see where DE was going it just doesn't work.  While I am doing damage over time the enemy is doing damage to my face.  Trying to get in range to use Toxic Lash on high level Grineer is suicide.  I ended up spamming Miasma to stay alive, ironically.  Admittedly I did like the DPS increase from just spreading spores and hitting miasma but it was too risky of a playstyle to be sustainable for a frame with few defenses.

 

This rework feels like a step backwards.  Not nearly as satisfying as the Frost or Excal reworks.  The new skin is gorgeous though, it's too bad.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Wotca