Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Creamed]

You don't need to do either of those things, though, since the wave damage is so high anyway.  

All you have to do is stand behind a wall and "e" until you get arthritis.

[Synitare]

You don't need to do either of those things, though, since the wave damage is so high anyway.  

 

Yes, but that's sort of what "rewards" means. You don't have to, but it's beneficial if you do. Saryn on the otherhand is the opposite of rewarding.

[Latiac]

Yes, but that's sort of what "rewards" means. You don't have to, but it's beneficial if you do. Saryn on the otherhand is the opposite of rewarding.

 

 

I think this video sums up the Saryn rework. Saryn is not 'fine' and that video shows it.

[Syndrella]

My opinion about this rework is something needed for her to be more useful and of course the rework like many others wasn't really what peoples wanted but don't forget that they mentionned to rework almost all of their weapons/frames/enemies and systems which makes the game more viable for frames while they improving the challenge and skill based gameplay (casuals still want their playstyle),

 

I think that need more time for the reworks wave to see how things changed then test it if viable if not then always have more chances for feedbacks and tweaks.

[Varzy]

Give Miasma a spreading effect like MPrime - it spreads out in a wave of corrosion over time, going from an initial 10 or 15 meters to about 25 meters over several seconds, and lingers a few seconds at that max radius. Any enemies that enter the cloud are affected by the full duration.

 

Buff the damage of Miasma slightly (by about 15-25%), and make it so it checks what procs enemies have - if they have both Viral and Toxic, deal +250% instead of +200%, to reward players who can get both procs running. If they are using Toxic Lash, that play-style should be rewarded.

 

Stun and proc Corrosive on enemies when they are initially affected, then give each damage tick a chance to stun and proc again. This will give it utility even when not perfectly primed for max damage, and make successive Miasmas more effective.

 

As for Toxic Lash, make it a toggle ability! This will cut down on the energy Sayrn will have to spend to set up her combos.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Bruh, you might want to take a look at https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/557106-long-saryn-build-analysis-comparing-old-and-new-miasma-lots-of-math/

 

TL;DR you need to do everything perfect all the time to even get close to old saryn.

 

Bruh, if the only thing you can do is crunch numbers, it might explain why you don't find this rework very fun. Stop focusing on what "was" and refocus on what "is." She still obliterates everything on the normal starchart, which is the only stuff that's supposed to be accounted for in balance. Endless mode scaling is outside the standard scope of the game. 

 

Yes, there are Warframes with higher damage potentials right now. They're probably in line for reworks/touchups too. 

 

Yes, this game is currently about powerfarming and Saryn is no longer as useful for that, but this game isn't supposed to be about powerfarming, so DE is working on changing that. 

 

I'm not saying "Saryn is more powerful." I'm saying Saryn is more fun. Unless, of course, your definition of fun is pressing one button and looking at numbers pop up on a screen. 

[AutumnBramble]

Yes, but that's sort of what "rewards" means. You don't have to, but it's beneficial if you do. Saryn on the otherhand is the opposite of rewarding.

 

Yes, that. Exactly. Synergy is not dependence.

[RHuckebein]

 

If you didn't use minimum duration before then your Miasma was even weaker than current 300% multiplier Miasma.  Venom also didn't have guaranteed procs before the rework, btw, so there's no guarantee that the whole group would be affected by Viral status.  

 

 

Except that I could cast Miasma multiple times if it wasn't enough for a given enemy (mid-late tower and some enemies at the very tail end of draco) because I could freely run max efficiency and when I was using it for damage I was more concerned with damage per second than damage per energy.  And rage/molt kept my energy high enough when I wasn't killing enemies fast enough to keep up on orbs.  Which was pretty simple since I didn't have to rub elbows with things to proc toxic before spreading venom to get multipliers to make my ability 'okay.'

[GhostLacuna]

15m range is standard for the stronger nukes (shared with reckoning and Avalanche,) and Miasma still does so much damage (boosted by both procs, new Miasma is only 10% weaker than old min duration MIasma) that using a max range build is still desirable (especially since it helps Spore and Molt spread more easily.)

 

Fully synergized (300%) Miasma is still the strongest nuke by far (4200 damage,) and is average with other radial nukes (1400 vs 1250 and 1500)  even without any synergy.  Spreading Viral procs is a joke with Spore now so a 200% Miasma (2800 damage) is pretty much guaranteed with almost no setup time (cast Spore once, spores spread constantly and almost passively in most scenarios.)  Using certain weapons, you can also eliminate the need to cast any more ablities after the first Spore, reducing setup time and energy cost even further.  The great thing is that with builds that are good for the other three powers, Miasma will also deal good damage, unless you don't add any power strength.  

 

You can also ignore Miasma and just build range/durability or w/e.  The good part about the rework is that Miasma can still be super powerful now but we actually have to do something to get that power instead of getting it for free with via a programming oversight.

 

It staggers enemies and deals Corrosive damage both immediately and for some seconds thereafter.

 

 

 

Once again why even bring up the absolute base damage of miasma with the dependencies?

 

a single entry level mod like intensify and the two basic duration mods over base deals way more damage then that

 

130% str and 158 dur is 455 base damage for 4,74 sec so a maximized damage of 8626 per cast of Miasma

 

185% str and 103 duration is 647.5 base damage for 3.08 sec  so maximized damage of 7977.2 per cast of miasma

 

FSS I dont even care about Miasma any longer but at least be truthful about how it will actually perform with just basic modding.

 

Spore only benefit from power str in damage per second so its largely irrelevant there

 

Molt gets more damage and more health from power str and here the only useful thing is the increased health since it lasts about 2-3 sec before its destroyed later on.

 

Lash gets increased blocking chance as well as damage modifier from power str

 

Miasma only get more damage per second but due to how duration affects its now its not even worth it if you try to mod for Miasma damage.

 

Ugh all i seen from both the white knights and doomsayers is the simplistic @(*()$ black and white good/bad S#&$ty narrowminded crap of a worldview that plague this damn planet.

 

How many of you Forum posters have actually tested her whole kit out? how many of you have actually tried it for more then 30 minutes of total play time? How many different builds have you tested in actual missions?

 

I hate lash with a passion i still spend well over 2 hours testing it out in different modding combinations to actually see the usefulness of it.

 

I have came back to games after 8 years of reworks and patches and i still where able to adapt to it by actually testing the damn things out, doing research and just plain focusing on what could work instead of feelings.

 

DE can make changes to Saryn as long as they like until they as a Company find that they are satisfied. They can just as well choose to do nothing.

 

Hell i have been through so many reworks and reboots in different games where only the name of the original character remained the same. 

 

This rework has already been tweaked once. I have waited multiple years for reworks before. In context of that waiting for the tweaks on Saryn will be a piss in the sea.

[Varzy]

Give Miasma a spreading effect like MPrime - it spreads out in a wave of corrosion over time, going from an initial 10 or 15 meters to about 25 meters over several seconds, and lingers a few seconds at that max radius. Any enemies that enter the cloud are affected by the full duration.

 

Buff the damage of Miasma slightly (by about 15-25%), and make it so it checks what procs enemies have - if they have both Viral and Toxic, deal +250% instead of +200%, to reward players who can get both procs running. If they are using Toxic Lash, that play-style should be rewarded.

 

Stun and proc Corrosive on enemies when they are initially affected, then give each damage tick a chance to stun and proc again. This will give it utility even when not perfectly primed for max damage, and make successive Miasmas more effective.

 

As for Toxic Lash, make it a toggle ability! This will cut down on the energy Sayrn will have to spend to set up her combos.

 

Sayrn's energy consumption is a bit of a problem with this revision. What if an unpopped Spore gave the player a low amount of energy per second (like 0.5 or 1) to a max of 15 energy per second. Popping a Spore with Toxic Lash active could restore double the energy restore per second, meaning so long as she keeps attacking Sayrn will have a low but valuable buildup of energy that offsets the energy demands of her skills.

 

It'd be great if her base energy could be buffed to 250 to support this, as well.

[Synitare]

Bruh, if the only thing you can do is crunch numbers, it might explain why you don't find this rework very fun. Stop focusing on what "was" and refocus on what "is." She still obliterates everything on the normal starchart, which is the only stuff that's supposed to be accounted for in balance. Endless mode scaling is outside the standard scope of the game. 

 

Yes, there are Warframes with higher damage potentials right now. They're probably in line for reworks/touchups too. 

 

Yes, this game is currently about powerfarming and Saryn is no longer as useful for that, but this game isn't supposed to be about powerfarming, so DE is working on changing that. 

 

I'm not saying "Saryn is more powerful." I'm saying Saryn is more fun. Unless, of course, your definition of fun is pressing one button and looking at numbers pop up on a screen. 

 

The frames that have the higher damage potentials are the ones that have already gotten reworks. Excaliber, Ember, Valkyr, etc.

[SmokinDice]

okay so the changes where almost what I wanted for her..

I was writing topics about Saryn in the past, because DoT classes are always my favorite and I wanted to be Saryn exactly that.. but i think it was implemented kinda poorly..

 

my suggestions would be:

 

-spores should spread of enemys when they die, similar to spores on molt. (I think they already should do that, but it doesn't seem to work that way)

 

-Miasma should deal less damage BUT apply spores to all enemys hit on EACH tick. (giving more reasons to go for duration and giving miasma a lot more usage now as a faster version spore plague spreader skill)

EDIT: Maybe miasma should linger on for its duration, also applying spores to everyone that enters the radius.

 

-and finally, for better CC I think enemys affected by spores of any source should be slowed down like the slow for the new infested moa guys. (giving her a good amout of CC and giving the feeling that she really poisions and cripple the enemys)

 

EDIT2: spores should spread toxin from EVERY toxin proc applied too, not just from skill 3. (#giveacridsomelove)

 

This would make saryn all about them spores really giving her the feeling of spreading the plague!

[RealPandemonium]

okay so the changes where almost what I wanted for her..

I was writing topics about Saryn in the past, because DoT classes are always my favorite and I wanted to be Saryn exactly that.. but i think it was implemented kinda poorly..

 

my suggestions would be:

 

-spores should spread of enemys when they die, similar to spores on molt. (I think they already should do that, but it doesn't seem to work that way)

 

-Miasma should deal less damage BUT apply spores to all enemys hit on EACH tick. (giving more reasons to go for duration and giving miasma a lot more usage now as a faster version spore plague spreader skill)

EDIT: Maybe miasma should linger on for its duration, also applying spores to everyone that enters the radius.

 

-and finally, for better CC I think enemys affected by spores of any source should be slowed down like the slow for the new infested moa guys. (giving her a good amout of CC and giving the feeling that she really poisions and cripple the enemys)

 

EDIT2: spores should spread toxin from EVERY toxin proc applied too, not just from skill 3. (#giveacridsomelove)

 

This would make saryn all about them spores really giving her the feeling of spreading the plague!

Spores already spread all Toxin procs and enemies already spread spores upon death (but not as far as they do normally.)

[CelticMoss]

Talks about how they can kill no armor mobs?

 

Ok i can kill a no armor level 100 butcher with 2-3 shots from my gun.

 

When it comes to armor the combo that take a while to work will be nothing to them and they will gun you down.

 

And here's two videos

 

Testing with armored units

 

 

Testing with no armor units

 

 

As you can see armored units didn't take any real damage

 

And even with the no armored units it took a while for them to die so put one ancient in the mix and they would have lived.

Edited November 7, 2015 by SarahApple

[Kai_Shiba]

Talks about how they can kill no armor mobs?

 

Ok i can kill a no armor level 100 butcher with 2-3 shots from my gun.

 

When it comes to armor the combo that take a while to work will be nothing to them and they will gun you down.

 

And here's two videos

 

Testing with armored units

 

 

Testing with no armor units

 

 

As you can see armored units didn't take any real damage

 

And even with the no armored units it took a while for them to die so put one ancient in the mix and they would have lived.

 

 

This is just with spore and molt

Edited November 7, 2015 by KJRenz

[XxCurtennoxX]

Her damage dealing ability and overall team utility lies in Spores and Toxic Lash.

 

Seriously, go to a group of enemies, get toxic lash ready, cast a spore on someone, and melee them. Toxic lash pops all the spores in a large radius, spreading them to others in the group. Because you hit them with Toxic Lash, they are all now getting toxin procs every second.

 

These procs per second pop MORE spores. As long as enemies keep coming, the Spores can spread for a very long time, and the toxin procs keep building up on enemies that you haven't yet killed.

 

Really, go try it. I've seen Saryn in a whole new light after not trying to use Miasma. The spreading of the viral procs is INSANE, and no one seems to pay much attention to what Spores and Toxic Lash can do.

 

Her major issue with the lack of survivability.

Edited November 7, 2015 by XxCurtennoxX

[vrdwrst]

So I can't instakill level 100 bombards anymore. Because that was such an integral part of the game. Gee, my whole experience is ruined because I can't stay in one level for more than an hour just by pressing one button.

Come one. There's so much more to the game than endgame.

[CelticMoss]

Her damage dealing ability and overall team utility lies in Spores and Toxic Lash.

 

Seriously, go to a group of enemies, get toxic lash ready, cast a spore on someone, and melee them. Toxic lash pops all the spores in a large radius, spreading them to others in the group. Because you hit them with Toxic Lash, they are all now getting toxin procs every second.

 

These procs per second pop MORE spores. As long as enemies keep coming, the Spores can spread for a very long time, and the toxin procs keep building up on enemies that you haven't yet killed.

 

Really, go try it. I've seen Saryn in a whole new light after not trying to use Miasma. The spreading of the viral procs is INSANE, and no one seems to pay much attention to what Spores and Toxic Lash can do.

 

Her major issue with the lack of survivability.

Just spores and lash interesting

[Eminem2420]

So I can't instakill level 100 bombards anymore. Because that was such an integral part of the game. Gee, my whole experience is ruined because I can't stay in one level for more than an hour just by pressing one button.

Come one. There's so much more to the game than endgame.

[XxCurtennoxX]

So I can't instakill level 100 bombards anymore. Because that was such an integral part of the game. Gee, my whole experience is ruined because I can't stay in one level for more than an hour just by pressing one button.

Come one. There's so much more to the game than endgame.

I'm finding Saryn 10000x more fun now im not just pressing 4. I never used her before BECAUSE she was a one-trick pony.

[011100110110000101101101]

My main gripe with the Saryn re-work is the health nerf.

Why nerf the health, DE? Was it really, truly necessary?

[Szaeravar]

One thing I want clarification on is whether or not popping a spore will copy ALL existing toxin procs, or just one instance. If yes, awesome. If not, meh. Miasma's damage scaling still isn't great, and I now use it as a stun to set up the rest of her abilities or clear out fodder. 

From my own testing, I can't say that every toxin proc is carried over. 

[CelticMoss]

So I can't instakill level 100 bombards anymore. Because that was such an integral part of the game. Gee, my whole experience is ruined because I can't stay in one level for more than an hour just by pressing one button.

Come one. There's so much more to the game than endgame.

sigh someone that didn't watch the video again

 

he used 3 skills and didn't do any real damage to anything at level 70.

[XxCurtennoxX]

Just spores and lash interesting

You can't underestimate the synergy between these two abilities. The viral procs spread through waves of enemies like crazy, constantly stacking procs of toxin, too.

[akira_him]

This is just with spore and molt

I want your build, but please repeat in level 70 to make it a fair test to the first video

I'm finding Saryn 10000x more fun now im not just pressing 4. I never used her before BECAUSE she was a one-trick pony.

she is still a one trick pony, spores