Was Saryn Just Reverted?

[Redscyte]

If you played Saryn in the beginning, you knew her greatest ability was not Miasma, but Spore. There was a time where any accurate gun could hit a single Spore on an enemy and chain reaction would cover the entire map. The spores did so much and could continue that it would stack on itself over-and-over on the same enemy doing ridiculous damage. It got so bad when people started to figure this out, DE had to nerf the amount of spores, it spawned, then had to nerf it again by putting a limit on how many an enemy can get. It ever needed a rework due to how the animations of the spores popping destroyed your computers FPS.

 

Having played Saryn since yesterdays , I have noticed that her spores and spread far, VERY far. They DO NOT have a limit (as in how many can actually spawn to enemies), as in I can apply it once, and as long as things are completely nuked that same cast can last the entire wave in a defense. The upgrade to add Viral. this now makes the spores viable going into high levels because higher HP pools are crushed allowing her to last against higher enemies.

 

The combo setup. So far 2 > 1 > 4 is the way to go, but I believe if a Frame needs this much setup to reach its full potential then it should instantly kill the game like Nova did when she was released. It was because everyone was doing this I took another look at the Spores ability.   

 

Right now Im running my Saryn with the following mods:

 

Primed Cont (more duration, more damage/counter transient)

Transient Fort (Damage)

Blind Rage (Damage)

Intensify (Damage)

Stretch/Overextended (Range)

Vitality (Survival)

Rage (Getting power)

 

Im curious if anyone else has notice this and had a similar build or theory?

[TARINunit9]

Oh, I've noticed Spores got a HUGE buff. A group on ODD was trying to trash talk me for running Reworked Saryn, and yet the map was consantly filled with enemies who were Viral proc'd after only five seconds into each wave

[(XBOX)Master4733]

That will be fun to play with the it hits xbox one

[IronWolfKnight]

Oh, I've noticed Spores got a HUGE buff. A group on ODD was trying to trash talk me for running Reworked Saryn, and yet the map was consantly filled with enemies who were Viral proc'd after only five seconds into each wave

 

The only issues that I've noticed is that enemies with any AOE (Bombards, Napalms) can trigger the Spores themselves (I'm talking about Spores on other enemies and themselves not Spores on Molt) and the fact that Spore doesn't inflict a guaranteed Viral proc upon casting on an initial target.

Edited November 5, 2015 by IronWolfKnight

[Kaotyke]

... now that you've pointed it out, yeah... she did get reversed.

[KiteoHatto]

My issue is that before....

-ability to kill behind walls/under floors/above ceiling

You needed range and power to pull it off at the cost of efficiency and duration, but any red dot on the minimap was wiped.

 

Now....

-you can't kill what you can't spore, the damage is just not there for miasma alone.

Now you need:

-duration(for ticks)

-power(for damage of ticks)

-range (to "detonate" things with miasma)

....and

-efficiency(to be able to use 3 skills to pull of 1 combo that still doesn't kill unspored stuff behind walls/under/above)

 

Her skillset just feels forced now and you can't spec her as well anymore. Before, I could go for tanky regen molt build with an expensive "panic button" miasma or purely Miasma focused blitzer for quick multilevel(as in floors) exterminate runs.

 

She just feel like a damage support now instead of nuker.

 

I really hope DE "fixes" some of her skills before her PA comes out.

 

The old Saryn is dead and the new one is different, but mediocre.

 

Since DE is on a crazy spree of adding duration to every frame, maybe we can get some new mods that allow for both duration and power builds without crippling efficiency or range that bad ?

I can live with duration affecting efficiency in some way, just not for frames that require duration and efficiency as well as range and power to play "effectively". That's just not right, sorry.

Edited November 5, 2015 by kiteohatto

[MattM01]

The lesson here like many frames before. If a skill on a frame is too effective DE will nerf it and just like Cop Sucker/Supporters(to be clear I support Officers of The Constitutional Law those who don't follow it are Cops) they will support it anyone who says it's unfair will be yelled at . Yes people are allowed their thoughts on a subject but wow people get so touchy when it comes to criticizing DE's decisions. In the end it's DE's game and they have every right to do what they will with it however on that note it also prevents me from spending any money on the game b/c why spend money to buy plat when if a weapon, frame, etc. works too well it will get the Nerf?

Edited November 5, 2015 by MattM01

[TARINunit9]

My issue is that before....

-ability to kill behind walls/under floors/above ceiling

You needed range and power to pull it off at the cost of efficiency, but any red dot on the minimap was wiped.

 

Now....

-you can't kill what you can't spore, the damage is just not there for miasma alone.

No one can debate that this aspect in and of itself has been nerfed, even Saryn defenders like myself. But you know what? I don't think that's an issue per se

It's also something DE has been very consistent about. Nerfing abilities so that they have reduced effectiveness on enemies out of line of sight is something DE has done before, most famously with Radial Blind

 

Post-rework, Miasma still stuns things out of line of sight, but it probably won't kill them. Miasma without any procs works more or less like Avalanche

[KiteoHatto]

No one can debate that this aspect in and of itself has been nerfed, even Saryn defenders like myself. But you know what? I don't think that's an issue per se

It's also something DE has been very consistent about. Nerfing abilities so that they have reduced effectiveness on enemies out of line of sight is something DE has done before, most famously with Radial Blind

 

Post-rework, Miasma still stuns things out of line of sight, but it probably won't kill them. Miasma without any procs works more or less like Avalanche

Im pretty sure that avalanche at 270% power hits harder than Miasma at 270%....

Edited November 5, 2015 by kiteohatto

[TARINunit9]

Im pretty sure that avalanche at 270% power hits harder than Miasma at 270%....

Technically yes, but it depends on which enemies Avalanche hits

 

If you're only hitting a bunch of heavy units like Bombards and Heavy Gunners, Avalanche will outdamage Miasma by a measly 200 damage out of 4k

 

But if some small fry Butchers and such get caught up in the Avalanche, they deal an extra 1k damage per dead small fry

 

On the other hand, Miasma has that whole Viral proc setup that the devs really want you to use

[Riot_Inducer]

Technically yes, but it depends on which enemies Avalanche hits

 

If you're only hitting a bunch of heavy units like Bombards and Heavy Gunners, Avalanche will outdamage Miasma by a measly 200 damage out of 4k

 

But if some small fry Butchers and such get caught up in the Avalanche, they deal an extra 1k damage per dead small fry

 

On the other hand, Miasma has that whole Viral proc setup that the devs really want you to use

And lets not forget just how potent viral procs are especially when applied en masse like Spore can do. You might not see big damage numbers but literally halving the health of any affected enemy accounts for a hell of a lot of damage you don't have to do with Miasma or weapons. 

[Redscyte]

My issue is that before....

-ability to kill behind walls/under floors/above ceiling

You needed range and power to pull it off at the cost of efficiency and duration, but any red dot on the minimap was wiped.

 

Now....

-you can't kill what you can't spore, the damage is just not there for miasma alone.

Now you need:

-duration(for ticks)

-power(for damage of ticks)

-range (to "detonate" things with miasma)

....and

-efficiency(to be able to use 3 skills to pull of 1 combo that still doesn't kill unspored stuff behind walls/under/above)

 

Her skillset just feels forced now and you can't spec her as well anymore. Before, I could go for tanky regen molt build with an expensive "panic button" miasma or purely Miasma focused blitzer for quick multilevel(as in floors) exterminate runs.

 

She just feel like a damage support now instead of nuker.

 

I really hope DE "fixes" some of her skills before her PA comes out.

 

The old Saryn is dead and the new one is different, but mediocre.

 

Since DE is on a crazy spree of adding duration to every frame, maybe we can get some new mods that allow for both duration and power builds without crippling efficiency or range that bad ?

I can live with duration affecting efficiency in some way, just not for frames that require duration and efficiency as well as range and power to play "effectively". That's just not right, sorry.

 

I Understand what your saying but the Saryn 1.0 had no business in missions early game, in the older days enemies weren't worth anything until they were level 100. So think 100s to our 30s now. She shined when the enemies hd a health pool, because when everyone else' abilities dropped off Saryn's Spores did nasty work and would dominate the damage meters. As of right now I have not been out damaged in Draco running 236% range, 196% power, 78% duration (subject to change), and 55% efficiency. Now with the post patch buff to spores being activated upon death this should be a huge, HUGE buff. 

[KiteoHatto]

And lets not forget just how potent viral procs are especially when applied en masse like Spore can do. You might not see big damage numbers but literally halving the health of any affected enemy accounts for a hell of a lot of damage you don't have to do with Miasma or weapons. 

Then let's not forget that by the time viral procs actually become "useful and meaningful"(not a waste of time and effort) the enemies will kill you really, really quickly and since you can't spore what you can't see it matters little what procs and what doesn't if it doesn't save your life in the end.

[KiteoHatto]

I Understand what your saying but the Saryn 1.0 had no business in missions early game, in the older days enemies weren't worth anything until they were level 100. So think 100s to our 30s now. She shined when the enemies hd a health pool, because when everyone else' abilities dropped off Saryn's Spores did nasty work and would dominate the damage meters. As of right now I have not been out damaged in Draco running 236% range, 196% power, 78% duration (subject to change), and 55% efficiency. Now with the post patch buff to spores being activated upon death this should be a huge, HUGE buff. 

Where are you getting your energy from, EV trinity or Rage ? Or are you eating plates after each combo ?

[Redscyte]

The lesson here like many frames before. If a skill on a frame is too effective DE will nerf it and just like Cop Sucker/Supporters(to be clear I support Officers of The Constitutional Law those who don't follow it are Cops) they will support it anyone who says it's unfair will be yelled at . Yes people are allowed their thoughts on a subject but wow people get so touchy when it comes to criticizing DE's decisions. In the end it's DE's game and they have every right to do what they will with it however on that note it also prevents me from spending any money on the game b/c why spend money to buy plat when if a weapon, frame, etc. works too well it will get the Nerf?

 

You are so correct and i hate it because i know more people are going to pick up this (shame on me for helping that spread) and DE with nerf this move just like before and just like before put Saryn right back into her lil corner of no use frames.

[Redscyte]

Where are you getting your energy from, EV trinity or Rage ? Or are you eating plates after each combo ?

 

Rage, I run Rage on just about every frame that has a large HPool. I Life steal on every melee. Even with the the hit to my duration my Toxic Lash still last 23 seconds. So she has a bit of melee fighter in her now that spores react to melee and on death.

[Riot_Inducer]

Then let's not forget that by the time viral procs actually become "useful and meaningful"(not a waste of time and effort) the enemies will kill you really, really quickly and since you can't spore what you can't see it matters little what procs and what doesn't if it doesn't save your life in the end.

Hey hey good news check the most recent hotfix, spore now spreads on enemy death. So you don't need to rely on special weapons or using Toxic Lash to spread them. Just ran a random mission with them and a single spore cast can perma viral an entire room in under 3 seconds depending on how fast you are killing trash mobs. If you can't handle that then you clearly need to take cover or cast molt and fall back.

[Basilisk1991]

Hey hey good news check the most recent hotfix, spore now spreads on enemy death. So you don't need to rely on special weapons or using Toxic Lash to spread them. Just ran a random mission with them and a single spore cast can perma viral an entire room in under 3 seconds depending on how fast you are killing trash mobs. If you can't handle that then you clearly need to take cover or cast molt and fall back.

 

Really I've managed to go whole missions without having to recast Spore just from getting the proc to leapfrog from room to room, it's awesome!

[Zandre]

Has anyone tested Melee setup with her using the Mire? Viral damage aoe and toxin proc chance plus Crimson Dervish makes the Mire capable of hitting decently and setting up her ult for triple damage. I mean, it's not the dream, but I'm ranked 19, halfway through and haven't leveled the Mire, why not give it a try now?

[Makinar]

Spore and molt  is better than yesterday. much better .

 

Just came out of T2 (solo) survival 55 minutes and i was pleased,needs some minor tweaking.

 

Have read some interesting ideas in the feedback megathread .

Edited November 6, 2015 by Makinar

[Judgebanks]

Not even.

[Gelkor]

Has anyone tested Melee setup with her using the Mire? Viral damage aoe and toxin proc chance plus Crimson Dervish makes the Mire capable of hitting decently and setting up her ult for triple damage. I mean, it's not the dream, but I'm ranked 19, halfway through and haven't leveled the Mire, why not give it a try now?

 

I haven't leveled mire yet, but it's pretty silly with orthos Prime atm, the range and speed, so manny stacking toxin procs, its insane.  I'll start leveling it now.

 

Edit: Oh man I forgot how much I hate crimson dervish.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Gelkor