Should Summons/minions Be Independent Of Duration Or No?

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

I ask the title because I feel like it's just odd to make warframes with an ability to call upon help, which is fitted with a health bar, but it only lasts for some amount of time at the same time.

 

Example of Nekros and his shadows. Each shadow has a fixed amount of health (affected by power strength) and depending on what you're fighting against, they will die over the course of time the ability lasts. But if they can die from damage received, why give them a time limit on top of that health limitation?

 

I feel like it doesn't exactly fit, and if they were to be a summon and forget motion, but remove the ability to heal them (not sure if its possible now or not because they die from duration expiration), it won't break anything about Nekros (or Atlas from what I've seen so far from friends and clan members.)

 

Especially when it comes to say survivals and defense because the massive swarm of enemies will beat the non-living hell out of them and force the player to summon more to replace as well.

___________________________-

 

Secondary question: In the current system, why don't the shadow's kills count towards a kill for Nekros to resummon, yet they count for his mission kill count on the results screen?

[Eiswolf999]

Secondary question: In the current system, why don't the shadow's kills count towards a kill for Nekros to resummon, yet they count for his mission kill count on the results screen?

 

That would be so incredibly awesome.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Also, why would you despawn independent shadows from a nullifier? Had a bug yesterday where i was unaffected and it was the best thing EVER.

No, minnions should NOT be affected from duration. They should get the same threatment frost got and be a free recast.

[Zachatoo]

That would promote afking in low-mid tier survivals. You could hack the console, summon your minions, and grab a dinner and a date.

Duration is there for a reason, it's not hard to recast.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

That would promote afking in low-mid tier survivals. You could hack the console, summon your minions, and grab a dinner and a date.

Duration is there for a reason, it's not hard to recast.

It's also not hard for the enemy to kill them as they do pretty quickly over the course of a mission, and as they die, you're still killing to keep your replacement list up.

 

Besides, they aren't healing, and I was thinking that if you recast it while any shadows are still alive it kills the remaining shadows instead of throwing up another batch.

[SmokinDice]

summons dont need duration.

end of story.

 

will it happen? and will the game be more fun eventually through changes like this?

nope.

[Toom1275]

I think this was kind of the same reason that iron skin and snow globe lost their durations, because having both health and a timer was bad for them.

[Sorise]

That would promote afking in low-mid tier survivals. You could hack the console, summon your minions, and grab a dinner and a date.

Duration is there for a reason, it's not hard to recast.

Creates shadows

Goes afk for dinner

Comes back and finds both you and them dead

Lose Lose

:)

[(PSN)Shiney_Piney]

+1 to OP

[Zachatoo]

Creates shadows

Goes afk for dinner

Comes back and finds both you and them dead

Lose Lose

:)

Keep in mind I was also referring to Atlas's rumblers.

Maybe you won't have time for dinner with shadows, but you could easily go 20 minutes in a low-mid tier survival letting rumblers do everything.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Keep in mind I was also referring to Atlas's rumblers.

Maybe you won't have time for dinner with shadows, but you could easily go 20 minutes in a low-mid tier survival letting rumblers do everything.

Its 2 Rumblers vs the increased horde of Grineer/Corpus/Infested since the survival update. And even if you ran them for duration now, you make them move at half speed which makes for very easy targets or strength which makes them last for 30 seconds and cost 155 energy per use.

 

Plus, Atlas isn't played to summon like Nekros is, he's played to either beat up face or tank. Not sit back and let others do the work for him.

 

Besides, health limitation (which like I said they can't get healed if duration is removed) and a timer on top of that are still stupid when put together.

[Kedy]

That would be so incredibly awesome.

 

That would be so incredibly nerfing him!

Right now by killing stuff you choose what kind of ennemies you want to be able to summon.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

That would be so incredibly nerfing him!

Right now by killing stuff you choose what kind of ennemies you want to be able to summon.

Its gonna be common fodder more often than heavy units, and they kill everything anyways, so you're still getting what you want summoned.

[KnightCole]

I think the summons should have their own health bars, but increase power cost to summon them maybe. 

[Sorise]

Keep in mind I was also referring to Atlas's rumblers.

Maybe you won't have time for dinner with shadows, but you could easily go 20 minutes in a low-mid tier survival letting rumblers do everything.

Immortal?

Edited November 9, 2015 by Sorise

[Ajreil]

Yes I want this on Nekros, but for a different reason.

 

A minions build for Nekros is extremely slot starved, especially since I want to run at least two of his amazing augments on any given build. While his abilities can get away with around 80% duration (Terrify is fine with it, and his other abilities don't scale with duration at all, besides Shadows).

 

Letting Shadows now rely on Duration would give him a bit of extra room when modding. Ember got a similar treatment when WoF became a channeling ability, and I'm told it was a huge step towards making her not a headache to mod.

 

Nekros needs everything, and when I use him, two different augments to be both fun and usable in mid-late game. Making him less dependent on duration would make it a lot easier to mod.

[Zachatoo]

Its 2 Rumblers vs the increased horde of Grineer/Corpus/Infested since the survival update. And even if you ran them for duration now, you make them move at half speed which makes for very easy targets or strength which makes them last for 30 seconds and cost 155 energy per use.

Don't have to mod for duration if that limitation is removed. Just mod for strength and range for giant speedy death machines(this is almost funny). 155 energy is nothing for an easy afk win for 20 mins.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Don't have to mod for duration if that limitation is removed. Just mod for strength and range for giant speedy death machines(this is almost funny). 155 energy is nothing for an easy afk win for 20 mins.

Mmhmm. Show me anyone who can leave the game for 20 minutes, still receive rewards, and not die (and therefore the Rumblers as well) when they aren't at their controller for those 20 minutes.

 

Did the remembrance that if you don't move for about 30 or 60 seconds at all labels you as afk and removes your viability for rewards that milestone/wave? But sure, let's just say that people are gonna totally summon and then leave and still expect rewards unless they bring their controller with them (which has an effective signal limit of like...50 ft probably before it disconnects) wherever they're going and keep the left stick pressed to the left or right until they're ready to get back to the game.

 

Oh right, did we also forget that we're being shot at constantly and if that player has a death mark and their assassin/syndicate enemy pops, they won't know about it and will waste a revive/fail the mission as well?

 

But nooo, that's not important, let's just focus on the not rewards Atlas and Nekros will receive by going afk for 20 minutes in a Survival that will spawn Nullifiers, Heavy Gunners, Toxic Ancients/Healers, Juggernauts, Napalms, Scorchers, Comba/Scrambus, Corpus Techs, Sapping Ospreys, BOMBARDS, and Energy Leeches/Parasites. Lets also not forget about the possible Zanuka, Stalker, G3, and Syndicate Death Squad appearances who are MORE than capable of killing you via Dispel + consistent damage and you being a motionless target for their self gratifying AI to sate themselves over when you fall.

 

Yep, going afk cause of 2 summons as Atlas is totally a problem for this game or the non-healable 7-14 summons of Nekros who will die regardless for zero armor and constantly tougher enemies outranking them by the minute.

[Ajreil]

Don't have to mod for duration if that limitation is removed. Just mod for strength and range for giant speedy death machines(this is almost funny). 155 energy is nothing for an easy afk win for 20 mins.

I'm not suggesting that duration be infinite. I'm saying duration should be what it is right now at 100% duration, and duration mods won't change that. Just to give us some more room to mod, because right now he needs everything.

 

Mmhmm. Show me anyone who can leave the game for 20 minutes, still receive rewards, and not die (and therefore the Rumblers as well) when they aren't at their controller for those 20 minutes.

Yep, his minions wouldn't survive very long.

 

Plus you would need to be picking up life support, so you would fail the mission anyway.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Yep, his minions wouldn't survive very long.

 

Plus you would need to be picking up life support, so you would fail the mission anyway.

Thank you. Finally someone with sense against the "afk in survival argument" when 100% lasts less than 2 minutes without capsules.

[Zachatoo]

Mmhmm. Show me anyone who can leave the game for 20 minutes, still receive rewards, and not die (and therefore the Rumblers as well) when they aren't at their controller for those 20 minutes.

Ember. Press 4 and leave the room. Carrier can vacuum energy and life support capsules.

Oh right, did we also forget that we're being shot at constantly and if that player has a death mark and their assassin/syndicate enemy pops, they won't know about it and will waste a revive/fail the mission as well?

It's called positioning yourself correctly. Hide behind a wall at the end of a dead end. Easy.

Honestly, all your concerns can be addressed by simply recasting at the durations end or death of summons, whichever comes first. It's super easy, and cheap with efficiency mods.

[Sorise]

Don't have to mod for duration if that limitation is removed. Just mod for strength and range for giant speedy death machines(this is almost funny). 155 energy is nothing for an easy afk win for 20 mins.

Guns still kill right?

[PsychoticMarik]

Yes I think duration should be removed from summons.

 

Nekros specifically, but the Rumblers should also lose it.

 

However as it pertains to Nekros summons he should have a means of healing them(tho thats for another topic)because he could then be balanced around a minion master playstyle. Which he already has 1 foot in the door(or grave...pun) for right now.

 

What keeps this from being OP is actually rather simple. For Nekros its a mix of giving him a means of actively spending energy to keep them healed up, and the fact that they have a health bar means they can in fact die. If you walk away without attending to them they will eventually be slain, but by remaing active with them you can maintain them. Sounds like a pretty rewarding playstyle no?

 

For Atlas its a little different, but still a non issue. He has 2 Rumblers at max, and they provide very low damage, but decent CC with each hit, and pull some agro. While its true that they can take lots of punishment even without any state changes they will still go down at some point. Lets not forget nullifiers outside the other unit types.

 

We cannot keep these things from being fun and powerful to appease low lvl content. Literally anything is OP in low level content, and even if you could get away with leaving summons active for a few mins without any attention you cant do it forever.

 

These are ultimates after all. Lets not forget about the actual OP powers that exist in this game. Dont tell me our minions cant be fun and powerful while powers like disarm and molecular prime exist. They offer far more for far less effort as it is. Not relying on AI perhaps being the most prominent advantage.

Edited November 10, 2015 by PsychoticMarik

[Ajreil]

-snip-

I agree completely. That sounds like a very rewarding playstyle.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Ember. Press 4 and leave the room. Carrier can vacuum energy and life support capsules.

It's called positioning yourself correctly. Hide behind a wall at the end of a dead end. Easy.

Honestly, all your concerns can be addressed by simply recasting at the durations end or death of summons, whichever comes first. It's super easy, and cheap with efficiency mods.

We aren't talking about Ember however, this is Nekros and Atlas you said would "summon and go to dinner" or something.

 

Also, few things:

 

1. Not everyone wants/adores using Carriers/Sentinels.

2. You can move when you're afk? When did this sorcery come to light??

3. You aren't summoning anything if you're afk when they die, and remember how Nekros has to kill stuff to keep his shadow count up? That's not happening if you're afk while Atlas is getting swarmed by either getting pulled out by Scorpions, hit by Bombards, and Sapping Ospreys flying up to you in your "hidey hole" since 2 rock monsters =/= ever increasing enemies.