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Rhino Changes Feedback [U18 Megathread]

[DE]Danielle

By [DE]Danielle,
in Warframes

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lookindown

lookindown

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well , the changes to make his tankiness better seem to have worked, however , his damage is still miserable, it falls of extremely quickly after level 40. Just played the new level 50 mission solo with a 200% strength rhino, and found myself in need to cast stomp + 2  charges to kill 1 silly level 50 lancer! An easy solution would be to make his charge scale with melee mods, like several frames out there currently do...

Edited by lookindown
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SquidTheSid

SquidTheSid

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Posted

Didn't DE change his charge to scale with melee mods? It seems to do a lot more damage than it did before.

 

But yeah, really solid buff to Rhino. I kinda wish Roar got a second look (maybe a secondary effect to the damage buff) to make it a bit more interesting and I also wish his HP and Shield values were switched, but his kit is really solid as of now. 

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KanesDeath

KanesDeath

Posted
Posted

Heavy Impacy appears to be bugged or working as intended.

 

If i try to do a normal leaping to ground melee strike Heavy Impact wont trigger.

 

If i jump straight up to trigger Heavy Impact on landing the following leaping to ground melee strikes all trigger Heavy Impact. However once i do a normal melee strike and or use rifle/pistol the next leap to ground strike wont trigger Heavy Impact. Meaning i have to force Heavy Impact again as described in the first sentence.

 

Is this working as intended?

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Monster-T

Monster-T

Posted
Posted

Imho the Rhino changes are very underwhelming. I'd thought that it will be a rework - but its not, they have just tweaked 3 skills a bit and those tweaks are not more than band-aids. Dont get me wrong; this tweaks made him more viable BUT gameplay wise he is just as boring and clunky as usual. Compare him to Excal; he's fresh, fun to play and damn versatile, while Rhino is still neither and visually and gameplay wise not up to date. The question is 'why is Excal all in all more fun to play?' because most of his skills have great synergy with each other and they can be used while running, without interrupting it. Rhino got some synergys too - but they are non practical and a bit out of place (imho).

Well... at least Iron Skin is scaling now.

Charge and his Roar still need a real rework.


 

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Gelkor

Gelkor

Posted
Posted

How to do Iron Skin:

 

1. Make more Duration.

2. Bring Kulstar.

3. Cast Iron Skin.

4. Blast yourself.

5. Enjoy!

 

Bonus tip: mod Ironclad Charge, charge at a huge group of enemies, cast Iron Skin.  This is from hitting about 5-7 enemies (hard to calculate, Ironclad Charge also scales with power strength, and the armor multiplier scales with power strength, it's interesting.

 

JB9jKsU.jpg

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Shashu

Shashu

Posted
Posted (edited)

When are you going to change rhinos charge to an ACTUAL CHARGE?

 

Hes a juggernaught frame... so make him do the juggernaught charge... like actually stepping back into a ready sprint animation then into a heavy stomping sprint not giving a care whats in front.....while you can control his charge movement (slow turning however)

 

We dont want a flying headbutt charge.

Edited by Shashu
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TheBrsrkr

TheBrsrkr

Posted
Posted

So, my two plat on the Changes:

Rhino Charge: The recast counter is nice, but heavily situational. Rhino Charge isn't something that lends itself to spamming, because of the mobility it provides. You would just speed past and knock down everything, then there's no reason to do it again because everything is, well, knocked down. Adding to and using the combo counter is an excellent idea, but the combo counter is really too short; that's not just a gripe with Charge, but melee in general. Consider extending it to 5 seconds or making the timer increase for every milestone. I will also gripe about the change from duration to range on Charge distance, but I understand why that happened, so it doesn't bother me too much. THe SYnergy with Rhino Stomp, however, is a strange choice.Rhino Sromp and Charge overlap in that they both seek to achieve one thing on enemies: CC. Rhino Charge really doesn't do that much damage in the first place, and doubling it just seems a bit....arbitrary. I'm not saying it's bad, by any means, it's just that i's not intuitive. After you use Rhino Stomp, your first, second or even thired thought isn't Rhino Charge. It's forced, and a bit meaningless since everyone's CC'd anyway.

 

Iron Skin: Excellent job. I haven't even changed my build yet and I can already tell the difference. Three seconds of absorption seems a bit short, but it works fine as it is, and I suppose it keeps Iron Shrapnel in check. I was hoping for an aggro buff though, a small one, nothing fancy, to really emphasize the "hit me in the face" theme Rhino has going for him. This being said, from the level 80 standpoint that you seem to be going for, it's isn't all that good. Perfectly acceptable everywhere else, sure, but not quite there yet.

 

Rhino Stomp:Recastable Rhino Stomp is....sorta iffy, to tell you the truth. On the one hand, if you run duration, you really don't need more than two stomps to freeze everything you wanted to freeze in the first place, and if you didn't, it was pretty much spammable anyway. On the other, it's got quite a bit of range, and I wouldn't be surprised if it joins the ranks of metafarming because of it. I, for one, am having loads of fun with it to pick up those stragglers, and now I don't have to worry about my timers lying to me because of lag since I can just cast it again. If I have one qualm, it would be that we still can't cast it in the air and then land on the ground to activate it. Collective air curbstomp pls DE.

 

Things that got left out:

Roar: I honestly expected some changess to Roar. Sure, it basically lasts a whole minute now, but that's all it really does. Some sort of synergy with Iron Skin or even Rhino Stomp wouldn't be out of place. Especially Stomp. Imagine Roaring to knock everyone in stasis back like Repel on the Odonata to the edge of Stomp's range. That would be both useful AND epic. Making it recastable when half the duration tacks out wouldn't be out of place either, since it's hard to get everyone grouped up all the time and if you miss someone they have to wait a whole minute until they can get the boost. Piercing Roar is also pretty useless, but that's because of puncture proc being absolute suck, really. It could still use a looking at.

 

Armor Rating: I get why it's lower than most of the other frames' ratings. Chroma's gets cut in half. Valkyr's isn't armor so much as it is a pain threshold being represented by armor. Atlas is possibly part rock. But can we at least make it equal to Frost's? He's wearing a winter coat for Lotus's sake!

 

Rhino Vanilla's Speed: There is no reason anymore for Rhino to have 0.9 sprint speed. It's a relic that no one needs anymore. Rhino Prime's speed can be left sas is though.

 

Passive:

Honestly, that thing is just too small to make a difference, and too situational to use practically. Heavy landings are not something Parkour 2.0 promotes, and Rhino pretty much already lacks in speed since all his abilities (except charge) lock him in place for a bit. Even when it does affect an enemy, it's usually just one or two, and it doesn't do much. Give it something like an 8-10m range and we'll see how that works.

 

Between the changes and the skin, excellent job DE. My Rhino has never been more powerful or more fabulous, and sincerely thanks you even though you did shrink my codpiece.

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(PSN)JCM_Unlimited

(PSN)JCM_Unlimited

Posted
Posted

I honestly Rhino charge should have its on unique mechanic. It's been said before and I'm just reiterating but make it an actual juggernaut, unstoppable, CHARGE. I want a close up view right behind Rhino and sleight tunnel vision of him RUNNING/CHARGING through enemies, able to steer him myself and really see the "gore", and not just sliding past them on Rhino skates. Don't make him invincible just beef up his armor for every enemy that gets ran through/over. It would make him a lot more visceral and aggressive.

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Kerch

Kerch

Posted
Posted

After a couple days of playing with Rhino's changes (not wanting to overreact in either direction), I've compiled my thoughts and posted them below.  This is what I think about each of his abilities.

 

Rhino Charge:  Charge distance scaling with ranged mods is much more intuitive.  You could achieve some pretty hilarious distance/speed charges before, but it didn't seem very practical.

 

Combo meter, damage bonus synergy from Stomp, and blast proc synergy with Iron Skin is a very confusing change to me.  If the idea is for Charge to do enough damage to be a real source of damage (in higher end content), it falls very short of that threshold without melee mod scaling.  My rifle mods increase the sustained dps of my rifles by about 91 times the base weapon dps.  Ninety-one!  A x4 combo Charge, with Stomp synergy and modded for damage, increases the damage of charge by around 16x the base amount (depending on your power strength mods).  They're just not in the same league of damage scaling.

 

If the intent for Charge is instead to be a small source of damage that's primarily a mobility/utility ability, that's fine too.  I just don't know why you bothered changing it to begin with then.

 

Suggestion: Cut base damage of charge to about 1/3 and have it scale with melee damage mods.

 

Iron Skin:  Armor scaling causes this power to be more useful later on in the game, so I'm pretty happy about that.  Unfortunately, Rhino has significantly less armor than the tankier frames in the game, and the armor multiplier is apparently half that of Frost/Atlas' similar abilities, so he's strictly third tier in survivability, behind frames with near/true immortality (Trinity/Valkyr) and frames with extremely high effective health (cold Chroma/Wukong).

 

Ironclad Charge mitigates this issue somewhat, since you can stack a pretty large amount of armor for a big Iron Skin.  Personally, I find this method to be pretty unreliable (and modding for it kills your ability to use some of his other abilities) without the ability to refresh Iron Skin on demand.  I'd really prefer not to have Rhino's EHP tuned around this mod.

 

Suggestion:  Improve base Armor to around Atlas' level, consider allowing Iron Skin to be refreshed on command, and change Ironclad Charge to only multiply the base armor per target hit.

 

Roar:  Unchanged, which is fine.  The ability is decent enough, if a bit boring.  I wish it brought something more unique as a buff.

 

Suggestion:  Have Roar also provide some regeneration or armor or critical hit chance in addition (or in place of) the damage buff already provided.  Maybe increase base duration as well.

 

Rhino Stomp:  Mostly unchanged, outside synergy with Rhino Charge.  Perfectly fine ability before.  Rhino isn't as good a CC frame as most of the better CC options out there (due to lower base duration on stomp), but that's OK.  Those frames generally don't have his level of survivability.  I find that to be a perfectly fine trade-off, though it means he'll likely never be a frame desired in group content.

 

Suggestion: None.

 

Innate Heavy Impact:  One of the bigger disappointments of Rhino's re-work is the innate given to him.  It's strong on flavor, but doesn't really do anything to encourage players to play Rhino in the manner he's supposed to be strong at.  In practice, I've found Heavy Impact to be completely pointless.  Worse, trying to use it is counterproductive for trying to get around and kill things efficiently.  I don't want to be making hard landings, there's just no benefit.

 

Suggestion:  Add/replace with bonus damage/crit chance to Shotguns.  Rhino is supposed to be an in-your-face monster, charging through waves of enemies, stunning them with stomps, and finishing them off from point blank range.  This would encourage players to do just that.

 

Conclusion:  Rhino is definitely better post patch, simply by virtue of Iron Skin gaining armor scaling.  If the goal was to simply make Rhino "pretty OK" and then move along to another frame,  then this is probably fine.  He's not an elite solo frame, or an elite grouping frame.  Instead, he's just "pretty OK" at both.  Personally, I'd like to see him be a bit better than that.

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Gelkor

Gelkor

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting bug I've noticed when playing missions where I'm not the host.  My Iron skin values are basically halved, and my Ironclad Charge is giving VERY small bonuses , like 37% when I would normally get 500+%

 

Also, I too am kinda disappointing Rhino Charge didn't get melee mod scaling. The damage is pointless if it doesn't scale well, so why do we care about comboing it with non-scaling damage?

Edited by Gelkor
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Edgarhighman

Edgarhighman

Posted
Posted (edited)

Heavy impact sound is MAD FK ANNOYING. This is important >.>

 

I now only charge 2 feet instead of through a tile of enemies :'( :sadcry:

 

Palatine iron skin should have been colored by energy color from the getgo, I've talked to dozens of players who share the same "IKR" moment...

 

Updates nice but... poor #1 is gone. Range build is MASS INFERIOR (-60% str, and way less effective than Dur build)

 

Ya'll shoulda let players use BOTH (non-stacking) with higher %'age taking priority for #1's distance. So simple yet... so not implemented. I'm talking about range/dur here. So either would function for #1 distance. I'm not here for "nay-sayers" I'm here to show a point. Poor #1 is dead.

EDIT: I never liked stomp ever. Still dont. Always been a STR/DUR (no range, no efficiency...) roar build.

Edited by Edgarhighman
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vazerd68

vazerd68

Posted
Posted

I didn't like the concept of the iron skin ability to begin with (lazy gameplay = press 4 to win) and it got a buff...

 

charge was a decent CC #1 now it just deals more damage (the amount is too low to try killing anything with it)

 

roar and stomp are still fine

 

the rhino gameplay still feels really boring imo :

-refresh #2 and #3 when they run out

-use stomp when you need some CC

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