Why I Dislike The New Quest/tenno Thing (Spoilers)

[Coaa]

Personally i thought it was brilliant. Everything about it (besides a child) was exactly what i thought controlled it. Although, to some extent i thought it would be WE are the ones controlling it (get it haha) not a child. But still, it was awesome and really opened it up.

[Latiac]

Swapping avatars in many games has rarely ever needed any lore explanation behind enemies being mad at us, for any typical, nuanced human being, so that is irrelevant.

 

This is true, it's simply a gameplay mechanic and nothing more doing this. or atleast it used to be...

[--Q--uaint]

5.Even if what that guy said was actually true, i still would not like it. A forced codependent existence is awful to me, and a Warframe might as well be dead to me if its acting like a lost animal looking for its owner and attacking its brethren and Tenno kin.

I prefer noble warrior Warframes with Tenno in them, not slobbering pet Warframes who need their Pokemon Master to go on with life.

I have Kubrow if I want pets.

Tell me, if you can, how a sword IS a warrior. If 'frames are not independently sapient, they are not warriors.

[LeaserResael]

I talk to myself all the time. In fact, I'm one of my favorite people to talk to since I always have the proper context for what's being said.

Yes, that would be right if the operator wasn't shown talking like every other character in the game. If in fact we are meant to be them, DE would've made it so that we only hear our thoughts instead of showing the operators talking.

 

Edited December 7, 2015 by LeaserResael

[Thumper3]

 

It's still quite relevant to point out here that Hunhow should have been able to detect the operator projecting energy to control the 'frame... but he was shocked, confused, and caught off-guard. There's a solid argument here for either side.

 

A better point is if Hunhow is a Sentient, and they are the ones who made and used the Tenno......forget about detecting the link, he should KNOW about the link.  Certainly shouldn't be surprised or caught off guard.

 

And yes, my guess is that the Warframe's are not just empty suits, they are likely some sort of biological android type thing with limited consciousness who can link with Tenno which would explain somewhat actions such as pulling the sword, etc to a degree.  Lots of holes, but something semi plausible on the face like that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I don't "hate" these new elements, but I am also nothing more than indifferent to them.  The silly looking kid in the back of my ship is just another UI access point no different than my Incubator and Foundry. 

 

Overall, not really super immersed with the Ghost in the Shell/Evangelin mash up story.  Would have been better to have found out the Warframes are a type of lifeform either evolved or breed by the Sentient's that enable this transference BUT instead of some remote control link Tenno consciousness actually is inserted into the brains of the Warframes.  This would match up to the intro in the game more, as Tenno could have been stranded in their Warframe's explaining the waking cinematic. 

 

The Tenno should have been left face-less, vague, and mysterious.  Pulling back the veil and showing us Tenno are just emo children using high powered wi-fi to link with Warframes just kinda feels....well....Sci-Fi originals-ish.

[SilentMobius]

It's still quite relevant to point out here that Hunhow should have been able to detect the operator projecting energy to control the 'frame... but he was shocked, confused, and caught off-guard. There's a solid argument here for either side.

 

Where is it indicated that Hunhow has any "void sense" at all? I believe that is simply a fabrication on your part.

 

I think it's more likely that Hunhow was panicked because the Tenno was using the Warframe to channel Void-energy into the Sword, which as a directly connected piece of Hunhow was harming him, hence the sudden retreat. All using abilities we _know_ the Tenno and Warframe have, not requiring any fabrication of intelligence on the part of the Warframe.

[OniDax]

A better point is if Hunhow is a Sentient, and they are the ones who made and used the Tenno......forget about detecting the link, he should KNOW about the link.  Certainly shouldn't be surprised or caught off guard.

 

And yes, my guess is that the Warframe's are not just empty suits, they are likely some sort of biological android type thing with limited consciousness who can link with Tenno which would explain somewhat actions such as pulling the sword, etc to a degree.  Lots of holes, but something semi plausible on the face like that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I don't "hate" these new elements, but I am also nothing more than indifferent to them.  The silly looking kid in the back of my ship is just another UI access point no different than my Incubator and Foundry. 

 

Overall, not really super immersed with the Ghost in the Shell/Evangelin mash up story.  Would have been better to have found out the Warframes are a type of lifeform either evolved or breed by the Sentient's that enable this transference BUT instead of some remote control link Tenno consciousness actually is inserted into the brains of the Warframes.  This would match up to the intro in the game more, as Tenno could have been stranded in their Warframe's explaining the waking cinematic. 

 

The Tenno should have been left face-less, vague, and mysterious.  Pulling back the veil and showing us Tenno are just emo children using high powered wi-fi to link with Warframes just kinda feels....well....Sci-Fi originals-ish.

 

I still don't see how they are emo. You can choose to make them emo, but they really aren't.

[Riot_Inducer]

A better point is if Hunhow is a Sentient, and they are the ones who made and used the Tenno......forget about detecting the link, he should KNOW about the link.  Certainly shouldn't be surprised or caught off guard.

Erm, gotta correct you there, the Tenno were made and used by the Orokin to fight the Sentients specifically because the Tenno could attack the Sentient's Achilles' Heel to void energy.  

[Kaisty]

Found tumblr user.

But seriously, Tenno thought of themselves as of privileged caste, they are used to being arrogant.

Tumblr user? Would you mind explaining this to a person who does not know what on earth you are talking about?

 

As for the Tenno being arrogant, kind of funny that they say things about the other factions being mean or ugly or greedy, when the only response needed would be "Hello kettle, my name is Pot!" The only downside is that we haven't truly had another faction or species that would show up and knock the Tenno down a few pegs and kick dust over our so called honor. Especially if it knows about the whole Operator / Warframe connection and calls us cowards for sending out "toys to fight for us".

[Duraxian]

Agreed with OP

[Pavelord]

Gonna throw an analogy here.

 

Tenno is the cephalon.

the Warframe is the ship.

 

They poly-tenno theory was long refuted and the warframes have alwasy been suits, now we know we were them mentally and not physically. I think people have taken too seriously Hunhows insults about being puppets, in that relationship of puppet and puppeter of course you can see the detach  from the frame, but if you see the operators are expanding their minds to inhabit the warframes, they are not pulling strings on the frame from above but wearing it like a glove.

 

And all the personalities and flavor you gave to your character is the dream the Tenno had, this dream is yours, you're the operator,  and this dreams resurface everytime to equip the frame.

 

 

I think what is inside the warframes, is something like a homunculus, a living body without a mind (or soul), the eyeless things Alad finds when he disect the suits, clearly with some infested tissue, I don't think it has a personality of its own it would be swallowed by the infested hive mind, but why does it refuse them. Because of the Margoolis implant found in the Ominous loading screen and that is why Margoolis mention this line in the quest "this will stop the voices from taking hold".

[StabbyTentacles]

And all the personalities and flavor you gave to your character is the dream the Tenno had, this dream is yours, you're the operator,  and this dreams resurface everytime to equip the frame.

Nicely said. 

 

I'd find it way easier to adopt had 'I' remained masked, and in the background. And not/never had the Whining teenager ever enter my ship. stay in the FPS enter ship. Done. *dusts hands

As far as my spacewizard powers, add them to my warframe.  Done. *dusts hands

[--Q--uaint]

Where is it indicated that Hunhow has any "void sense" at all? I believe that is simply a fabrication on your part.

 

I think it's more likely that Hunhow was panicked because the Tenno was using the Warframe to channel Void-energy into the Sword, which as a directly connected piece of Hunhow was harming him, hence the sudden retreat. All using abilities we _know_ the Tenno and Warframe have, not requiring any fabrication of intelligence on the part of the Warframe.

 

He can sense things in the Void; he knows where the moon and a lot of other things are. Also, even the Grineer have sensors that can detect Void signatures and such.

I cannot imagine a race that adaptable and that technological deciding not to get themselves a piece of that sensing action. (that came out wrong, but you know what I mean :P)

[SilentMobius]

He can sense things in the Void; he knows where the moon and a lot of other things are. Also, even the Grineer have sensors that can detect Void signatures and such.

I cannot imagine a race that adaptable and that technological deciding not to get themselves a piece of that sensing action. (that came out wrong, but you know what I mean :P)

He knows where the moon is when he gets the information from Natah/Lotus because she is still mechanically a Sentient. The reason I think we need extraordinary evidence to suggest that Hunhow has some kind of Void Sense is because Void energy is explicitly stated to be unusually toxic to Sentients.

[--Q--uaint]

He knows where the moon is when he gets the information from Natah/Lotus because she is still mechanically a Sentient. The reason I think we need extraordinary evidence to suggest that Hunhow has some kind of Void Sense is because Void energy is explicitly stated to be unusually toxic to Sentients.

 

...and that toxicity in itself is a justification. If you adjusted the parameters enough, you might not even notice sticking your hand into water. You WOULD notice sticking your hand into hydrochloric acid.

[Date_Terumune]

"Dream, not of who you are, but why you want to be"

 

 

After all. i feel much more bond between my warframe and operator that the game is even better for me.

 

Also DE_Steve said that not everyone may like this change, dont say you were not warned.

 

 

The quest was long coming, there were TONS of hints [mainly ordis that everyone hates god knows why]

 

 

I think of Warframe as Perfect example of RPG [All blah blah about RPG's where you create your own story - those are RPG's played with pen and paper, we talk about RPG played on PC] ...but you still dont know what road you walk

[Shad0wWatcher]

It's lore. The only option is accepting it or not accepting it and forever playing with less immersion. DE is not going to somehow reverse everything that happened in the quest, what's done is done.

I feel the only difference between now Warframe and then Warframe is that, unlike being the Tenno sitting in the chair in reality playing the game, I can finally see myself in game for real (with little difference because I'm still sitting in a chair and controlling a character, heh).

So yes, I personally feel more immersed.

Pretty much this ^.

 

Right now it can be compared to the movie 'Avatar' (not the last airbender), where we take control of our warframes by basically going to sleep and transferring our minds to our warframes, 'dream' as it were. And i'm pretty fine with that. Cause right now i do feel like i'm controlling my frame. Were a person sitting in a chair controlling a character.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Shad0wWatcher

[SilentMobius]

...and that toxicity in itself is a justification. If you adjusted the parameters enough, you might not even notice sticking your hand into water. You WOULD notice sticking your hand into hydrochloric acid.

Which is why we never do that and yet have never evolved the ability to detect hydrochloric acid. In fact we don't have any common ways to distinguish it short of throwing something in there.

The Sentients have huge issues with the Void, they make their tech out of themselves. Can you not see how maybe we need some conformation of this "Void sense" before assuming it exists and then relying on that assumption to attempt to prove another point?

I mean why did he go to all the trouble of tricking us and the Lotus into finding his device if he had a sense that could locate the Tenno/moon without it?

Edited December 8, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Agentcheese]

1- You're not meant to be the Operator. The Warframe's link with them it's not fully explained really, as nobody knows what's inside the frames or why they acted on their own during the quest. So what you're saying is false.

Also the Lotus talking to you from the very beginning didn't stop you from playing, so nothing changed now.

 

2- You can mute both Ordis and the Operator. You don't really need to listen to them if you don't want to.

 

3- We don't exatly know what happens when a Tenno is killed, as we don't know what's inside the frames or why they can act on their own.

Sorry but your fallout example is wrong, in your example you said the character YOU'RE controlling is the one saying those things you don't agree with. I didn't see my Loki talking or saying that the grineers are ugly, I saw the operator saying that. He/she have their thoughts, they are they own characters, like the Lotus, like Salad, like Baro, etc.

If you were the operator, it wouldn't make sense for them to talk to -you- during missions, they are their own beings and you're not them.

4- You could never turn "traitor" when it comes to the Lotus, that didn't change here.

Maybe in the future, but the point is, the operators being here is not changing anything from what the game told us so far.

 

5- A book doesn't allow you to control anything. You're just a passive observer of that world. 

In Warframe you're choosing what frame to use, who to kill and where to go. The only thing that changed now is that we know the operators exists and -we- (as in, the warframes) need to protect them (the same as the Lotus, so nothing really changed).

Think of the operators as an extra source of power for you, -you- can even choose not to use the focus system if you want. So you -can- choose to ignore the operators if you want to. -That- would not be possible if you were meant to be them.

6- Look, I understand people might not like where the story is going, and that's perfectly fine. What I don't agree with is with people saying things that aren't true. We still don't know what the frames are, what's inside them, why they can act on their own, and a lot of other things.

The game is still the same, you just have an extra source of power that you can choose to use, or not.

 

1- If your not supposed to be the operator then who are you supoosed to be? the warfarme?

 

2- your right. you can fully mute everyone and still keep the game sounds. In fact you can fully remove everything got to do with the operator, including the pop ups. I had no idea about this at first but now I know. its a pity i can't do the same with ordis and the lotus yet.

 

3- by getting killed I meant how you revive after you die in a mission. that was what I was counting as getting killed.

 

4- I knew you never could turn traitor. that was just wishful thinking for myself.

 

all I can do is wait and hope, or not hope and not wait either.

 

 

5- I know you can change your warframe and missions but that was never enough choice for me. I wanted more, but I know that's basically asking for the impossible. so im either going to not play the game and not deal with it, or play the game and deal with it.

 

as for the operators I can't think of them as an AA battery. as much as Id like to I can't stopp thinking of them as they are and feel that they are intruding.

 

 as I said before though either ill just quit the game or deal with it.

 

 

6- the game seems the same for you, but to me it has changed... a lot. the feel of it and the knowledge of who you really are changes everything for me.

[LeaserResael]

1- If your not supposed to be the operator then who are you supoosed to be? the warfarme?

 

2- your right. you can fully mute everyone and still keep the game sounds. In fact you can fully remove everything got to do with the operator, including the pop ups. I had no idea about this at first but now I know. its a pity i can't do the same with ordis and the lotus yet.

 

3- by getting killed I meant how you revive after you die in a mission. that was what I was counting as getting killed.

 

4- I knew you never could turn traitor. that was just wishful thinking for myself.

 

all I can do is wait and hope, or not hope and not wait either.

 

 

5- I know you can change your warframe and missions but that was never enough choice for me. I wanted more, but I know that's basically asking for the impossible. so im either going to not play the game and not deal with it, or play the game and deal with it.

 

as for the operators I can't think of them as an AA battery. as much as Id like to I can't stopp thinking of them as they are and feel that they are intruding.

 

 as I said before though either ill just quit the game or deal with it.

 

 

6- the game seems the same for you, but to me it has changed... a lot. the feel of it and the knowledge of who you really are changes everything for me.

I understand that. Yesterday while playing a mission the operator said "We need to fight back" or something along the lines, what's important is that he used "WE", not "I". Meaning he/she and you are not the same person, he is the operator and you're the Warframe.

My points were about how most of the things you pointed out were in the game from the very beginning (Not being able to mute the lotus, not being able to turn "traitor", etc), so in reality this update didn't change that much.

The only difference is that now there's an operator that can give you power, but you (the Warframe) can still decide to use that power or ignore it completely.

[Cpt_Atroxium]

1. Cat is out of the bag. There is no going back.

2. Anyone watching the lore had a good idea this was coming or atleast should not have been surprised by it.

3. I like my operator.

4. There is still a lot we do not know about the Warframes as they seem to be at least partially organic.

[SilentMobius]

I understand that. Yesterday while playing a mission the operator said "We need to fight back" or something along the lines, what's important is that he used "WE", not "I". Meaning he/she and you are not the same person, he is the operator and you're the Warframe.

My points were about how most of the things you pointed out were in the game from the very beginning (Not being able to mute the lotus, not being able to turn "traitor", etc), so in reality this update didn't change that much.

The only difference is that now there's an operator that can give you power, but you (the Warframe) can still decide to use that power or ignore it completely.

 

No, explicitly the player is the Tenno, confirmed a myriad times by the devs. The Tenno lines in question are simply generic so they apply to teams. The Warframe is a Techno-organic golem, not the player.

Edited December 8, 2015 by SilentMobius

[KXZ501]

Huh... must have missed that memo about being Starchild 2.0.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KXZ501

[StabbyTentacles]

Huh... must have missed that memo about being Starchild 2.0.

I laft. ty

[Catacomb]

This is why i'm glad i didn't have any sort of head cannon or "i'm my character" thing.