Rhino's Rework Is Actually Pretty Lackluster.... He Needs To Be Buffed!

[DSpite]

-snip-

 

It is a "duration" ability. Until the "duration" mechanic passes, it can't be recast. That's all was meant in that statement.

 

"Duration: the length of time something continues or exists".

[NN13]

It is a "duration" ability. Until the "duration" mechanic passes, it can't be recast. That's all was meant in that statement.

 

"Duration: the length of time something continues or exists".

 

Quoting your own statement :

 

"Duration: the length of time something continues or exists".

 

This is true. This is exactly what duration is.

 

Unfortunately, "time" does not affect Iron Skin. To say that Iron Skin id a duration ability is utter foolishness. What does affect Iron Skin is strength. For example, the unmodded 1200 IS armor will last the whole mission if enemies are Level 5 but the same won't last 5 seconds if enemies are Level 70.

 

As for those saying that "Hooray! We can get millions of Iron Skin armor from void lasers", there you go, DE removed self damage affecting Iron Skin. This change not only stops you from getting millions of Iron Skin Armor from void lasers, it also stops you from getting 10k Iron Skin Armor from your Kulstur.

 

Still feel that buffing Rhino's Armor will make him OP?

[achromos]

Quoting your own statement :

 

"Duration: the length of time something continues or exists".

 

This is true. This is exactly what duration is.

 

Unfortunately, "time" does not affect Iron Skin. To say that Iron Skin id a duration ability is utter foolishness. What does affect Iron Skin is strength. For example, the unmodded 1200 IS armor will last the whole mission if enemies are Level 5 but the same won't last 5 seconds if enemies are Level 70.

 

As for those saying that "Hooray! We can get millions of Iron Skin armor from void lasers", there you go, DE removed self damage affecting Iron Skin. This change not only stops you from getting millions of Iron Skin Armor from void lasers, it also stops you from getting 10k Iron Skin Armor from your Kulstur.

 

Still feel that buffing Rhino's Armor will make him OP?

 

Buffing him too much? Yes.

 

I haven't abused that iron skin bug and did just fine with enough power strength as far as Iron skin goes.  Solo or in a team it didn't matter.

[NN13]

Buffing him too much? Yes.

 

I haven't abused that iron skin bug and did just fine with enough power strength as far as Iron skin goes.  Solo or in a team it didn't matter.

I never said too much. On the very first page, I suggested Rhino to be given 500 base armor and Rhino Prime 600.

 

I am about 110% sure that this armor buff would not make him OP.

 

The problem with people here is that in a quest to act smart, everyone is comparing his Iron Skin with other abilities. And some "intelligent" people even deny that Rhino is supposed to play a tank role, because they didn't take the time to watch the Rhino Profile video by DE.

 

When people start comparing skills, things complicate. Every warframe has different skillset. Some are better than Iron Skin, some are worse. Some deal heavy damage, some CC.

 

What we are supposed to look into is how well does Rhino survive without Iron Skin. Rhino is NOT supposed to be the tank because of Iron Skin. He is supposed to be the tank because he is a freaking Rhino. As of now, Rhino survives less than a freaking monkey(Wukong). Others who can survive more than Rhino are Valkyr, Atlas, Chroma, Excalibur, Frost.

 

And mind you, I am talking about basic survivability, not about survivability due to any ability.

I am talking about surviving when Iron Skin depletes.

When Hysteria depletes, Valkyr can take a beating and survive to recast Hysteria(given that you do not have few thousand accumulated damage).

When Iron Skin depletes, Rhino dies before he can cast it again.

Unlike OP, this is the reason why I want Rhino to have at least second highest armor, second to Valkyr that is.

 

Edit- And just so I am clear, I am not using 20 Level 50 Battlysts as my test case. I am using 5 Level 60-70 Heavy Gunners and 3 Level 60 Bombards, which is very common these days.

Edited December 18, 2015 by NN13

[Zarozian]

I never said too much. On the very first page, I suggested Rhino to be given 500 base armor and Rhino Prime 600.

 

I am about 110% sure that this armor buff would not make him OP.

 

The problem with people here is that in a quest to act smart, everyone is comparing his Iron Skin with other abilities. And some "intelligent" people even deny that Rhino is supposed to play a tank role, because they didn't take the time to watch the Rhino Profile video by DE.

 

When people start comparing skills, things complicate. Every warframe has different skillset. Some are better than Iron Skin, some are worse. Some deal heavy damage, some CC.

 

What we are supposed to look into is how well does Rhino survive without Iron Skin. Rhino is NOT supposed to be the tank because of Iron Skin. He is supposed to be the tank because he is a freaking Rhino. As of now, Rhino survives less than a freaking monkey(Wukong). Others who can survive more than Rhino are Valkyr, Atlas, Chroma, Excalibur, Frost.

 

And mind you, I am talking about basic survivability, not about survivability due to any ability.

I am talking about surviving when Iron Skin depletes.

When Hysteria depletes, Valkyr can take a beating and survive to recast Hysteria(given that you do not have few thousand accumulated damage).

When Iron Skin depletes, Rhino dies before he can cast it again.

Unlike OP, this is the reason why I want Rhino to have at least second highest armor, second to Valkyr that is.

 

Edit- And just so I am clear, I am not using 20 Level 50 Battlysts as my test case. I am using 5 Level 60-70 Heavy Gunners and 3 Level 60 Bombards, which is very common these days.

700 Armor for Rhino Prime only.

 

We can leave regular Rhino at 190.

[Gurpgork]

700 Armor for Rhino Prime only.

 

We can leave regular Rhino at 190.

That's completely asinine. Never mind the 700 armor itself, that is way, waaaay too big of a difference for a Prime upgrade. A Prime upgrade should be helpful, but it shouldn't be that mind-bogglingly game changing.

[Zarozian]

That's completely asinine. Never mind the 700 armor itself, that is way, waaaay too big of a difference for a Prime upgrade. A Prime upgrade should be helpful, but it shouldn't be that mind-bogglingly game changing.

Tell me how game changing it is for Rhino Prime.

 

You already know how the armor works too right?

[Gurpgork]

Tell me how game changing it is for Rhino Prime.

 

You already know how the armor works too right?

Well, unmodded Rhino has 1,675 HP on Iron Skin. Rhino Prime with 700 armor would get 2,950. That's 80% more powerful than base Rhino's Iron Skin, and that's before Steel Fiber joins the party.

No frame and their Prime should have that huge of a difference with any of their abilities.

[Zarozian]

Well, unmodded Rhino has 1,675 HP on Iron Skin. Rhino Prime with 700 armor would get 2,950. That's 80% more powerful than base Rhino's Iron Skin, and that's before Steel Fiber joins the party.

No frame and their Prime should have that huge of a difference with any of their abilities.

His base Iron Skin HP is 1200, it's just showing what's added with armor.

[Gurpgork]

His base Iron Skin HP is 1200, it's just showing what's added with armor.

And as you can see, the amount that the armor adds becomes pretty substantial, ultimately meaning that people without the Prime would be at a tremendous disadvantage over people who did have it.

I can understand you wanting a little more armor, like putting Rhino on par with Frost. What I don't understand is both why you want Rhino to have the highest armor in the game, along with making such a huge difference between the regular and Prime versions, which is needlessly gimping newer players who don't have access to Prime Warframes.

[GrimAtrament]

i guess were going to have to live with the fact that nothing can save rihno XD

[NN13]

700 Armor for Rhino Prime only.

 

We can leave regular Rhino at 190.

I am sorry to say, but thats not how balancing works.

 

You can not just ask for a buff for only your favorite version of a Warframe. Why just Rhino Prime?

 

We are talking about Rhino as a whole. Or at least, I am.

 

Therefore, if we are asking for a buff, both should be buffed.

 

Also, 700 seems a bit over the top. I asked for 500 and 600, respectively, knowing very well that DE might not buff it to that much, even if DE buff it at all. That's my highest value.

 

But I can assure you, DE won't give Rhino the highest armor in the game. That goes to Valkyr, being the berserker.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I'd say 300-350 armor for regular rhino and ~400-500 to prime version

[Zarozian]

And as you can see, the amount that the armor adds becomes pretty substantial, ultimately meaning that people without the Prime would be at a tremendous disadvantage over people who did have it.

I can understand you wanting a little more armor, like putting Rhino on par with Frost. What I don't understand is both why you want Rhino to have the highest armor in the game, along with making such a huge difference between the regular and Prime versions, which is needlessly gimping newer players who don't have access to Prime Warframes.

 

 

I am sorry to say, but thats not how balancing works.

 

You can not just ask for a buff for only your favorite version of a Warframe. Why just Rhino Prime?

 

We are talking about Rhino as a whole. Or at least, I am.

 

Therefore, if we are asking for a buff, both should be buffed.

 

Also, 700 seems a bit over the top. I asked for 500 and 600, respectively, knowing very well that DE might not buff it to that much, even if DE buff it at all. That's my highest value.

 

But I can assure you, DE won't give Rhino the highest armor in the game. That goes to Valkyr, being the berserker.

Then the heaviest warframe is the heaviest for no reason?

 

A heavy unit does imply one who can take heavy damage as well as dish it out heavy damage, but right now he can't really do either, even with the rework. All that rework did was grant usability back to those who build focusing around Iron Skin and tankiness, AKA Power & Efficiency.

 

And I want to buff the regular Rhino's armor to 275, but people will complain and call Rhino a noob starter frame that doesn't deserve such a buff, yet ironically Excalibur, which can be chosen right at the start, is far more OP than Rhino. Which just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

So if they are going to do that for Excalibur then I do believe the regular Rhinos would deserve at least that much armor.

 

As for why 700? Because Rhino Prime has a use for armor now since it affects his ability.

 

I believe 700 is a generous amount since it will not only toughen up his Iron Skin, but it will also make his HP sturdy for when that Iron Skin breaks, with a maxed Steel Fiber mod, he will last in the darkest pits of endgames. When his Iron Skin breaks and the shield layer softens the brunt of the attack, the instant death damage will hit a rock hard health which will give enough time for Rhino Prime to re-iron skin in that split second.

 

As for why not regular Rhino. I believe all who own a Rhino would eventually need to move to the next best thing if they decided that they like Rhino and get Rhino Prime. That's the only reason, but if you believe regular Rhino deserves some armor buff as well then so be it. We'll give an armor buff to regular Rhino too.

[-N7-Leonhart]

You just don't know how to tap into Rihno's newfound immense power. If you use Ironclad Charge with a proper build, you can get the skin to 40k HP easy every time. Then just use Iron Shrapnel to recast when it gets to 30% or so. No vulnerability moments.

[Agatorion]

Honestly, I will be pretty happy if DE increases Rhino's Armor to 500 and Rhino Prime's to 600.

Being the heaviest and one of the slowest warframe and the supposedly 'tank', I seriously fail to understand how a monkey(Wukong) and a sword warrior(Excalibur) has 225 Armor and Rhino has 190.

Ikr.Supreme tank 275 armor :|

[Agatorion]

Worthy buffs:

-1 ability have stack mechanics

-2 ability have invulnerable period that also has stack mechsnics(stacks from armor and incoming damage for 3 secs)

-4 ability recastable (the only change that makes him viable)

Just want to mention 1 thing.I would like to mod rhino to max duration and Range with a mix of durability(something like steelfiber and vitality), but as we all know that Narrow minded eats Range and it is completely ok that overexted takes Strength(armor will somehow cover that).If max dur and range would be possible on rhino he would a great warframe to CC enemies.

-Fear the nulificators

[Agatorion]

And rhino is already known as "noob frame".

The funny point is that he needs more skills and understanding of a game while being not so strong late, rather than frames like press invis loki, press 4 valkyr, press 4 ash, old sarynd and mesa were the same way.

But the community(not whole, but majority) keep calling Rhino noob frame.

Play rhino and pray for REAL rework of his abilities and good buffs!

[Zarozian]

Ikr.Supreme tank 275 armor :|

 

 

Worthy buffs:

-1 ability have stack mechanics

-2 ability have invulnerable period that also has stack mechsnics(stacks from armor and incoming damage for 3 secs)

-4 ability recastable (the only change that makes him viable)

Just want to mention 1 thing.I would like to mod rhino to max duration and Range with a mix of durability(something like steelfiber and vitality), but as we all know that Narrow minded eats Range and it is completely ok that overexted takes Strength(armor will somehow cover that).If max dur and range would be possible on rhino he would a great warframe to CC enemies.

-Fear the nulificators

 

 

The funny point is that he needs more skills and understanding of a game while being not so strong late, rather than frames like press invis loki, press 4 valkyr, press 4 ash, old sarynd and mesa were the same way.

But the community(not whole, but majority) keep calling Rhino noob frame.

Play rhino and pray for REAL rework of his abilities and good buffs!

I like you~

 

I now consider you an ally of justice~ O 3O

[UltimateGrr]

A few thoughts on Rhino.

 

First off, Rhino has 190 armor and Rhino Prime has 275 while Frost has 300.  My suggestion? At the very least get Rhino up to 275 points, ideally you'd get both to 300 points.  Given Iron Skin scales based on armor, this will give base Rhino a bit of durability, and Rhino Prime a little more.

 

Second, the passive on Rhino is largely useless, requiring more vertical height than several tiles actually have.  Swap it out with something else, like increased attack speeds with heavy melee weapons.  Another possibility is a passive that lets him use a percentage of his armor value to negate damage done to his shields.

 

Lastly, Rhino is the generalist of the group.  He does decent damage, has some CC, and a very good damage buff, but doesn't truly shine in an area, which is fine.  Rhino is the front line fighter, the First In to Frost's Last Out, and I think DE needs to keep that in mind when balancing him going forward.

[Zarozian]

A few thoughts on Rhino.

 

First off, Rhino has 190 armor and Rhino Prime has 275 while Frost has 300.  My suggestion? At the very least get Rhino up to 275 points, ideally you'd get both to 300 points.  Given Iron Skin scales based on armor, this will give base Rhino a bit of durability, and Rhino Prime a little more.

 

Second, the passive on Rhino is largely useless, requiring more vertical height than several tiles actually have.  Swap it out with something else, like increased attack speeds with heavy melee weapons.  Another possibility is a passive that lets him use a percentage of his armor value to negate damage done to his shields.

 

Lastly, Rhino is the generalist of the group.  He does decent damage, has some CC, and a very good damage buff, but doesn't truly shine in an area, which is fine.  Rhino is the front line fighter, the First In to Frost's Last Out, and I think DE needs to keep that in mind when balancing him going forward.

Actually he's the Heavy Unit of the group, like the Bombards, Heavy Gunners, and ETC. Which means he specializes in offense and defense.

 

I've said this many times before, but I really believe they should bump Rhino Prime's Armor to 700 and Rhino's armor to 275. That would fix so many problems.

[hukurokuju5]

his augments should be part of his damn normal skills,.... so lame..  takes up too much mod space for something that should be there in the first place

[dodyouserious]

his augments should be part of his damn normal skills,.... so lame..  takes up too much mod space for something that should be there in the first place

+1

[Monster-T]

his augments should be part of his damn normal skills,.... so lame..  takes up too much mod space for something that should be there in the first place

This! And a bit more armor for him please.

[Zarozian]

This! And a bit more armor for him please.

Yes. 700 Armor~