[Spoiler] All Feed Backs On Unairu Abilities & How The Unairu Abilities Are Meant To Be~

[Zarozian]

Oh! It got moved! ;D

 

Thanks! ;D

[CRCGamer]

Whoa.....you guys make it sound like Unairu is the worst one.... o -o......like out of all of them.....

 

Frankly... it is. They dropped the ball on this tree.

 

It doesn't deliver on the power fantasy of the description.

It has some of the absolute worst out of the box immediate usability.

It has the absolute worst passives as a whole out of the entire set.

[blazinvire]

Yeah unfortunately I have to agree Unairu was rather disappointing, picked as my first because I like tanking the hits, and quickly discovered it didn't really do anything...

Worse still when I got Zenurik unlocked, as I discovered it seems to CC about as well as Basilisk Flare without any of the nonsense aiming, and for 25k focus I got a free Energy Siphon, basically.

 

It feels lackluster and thematically wrong, for a Way that's supposed to emulate a mountain splitting the sky, it goes off on a very bizarre tangent.

Why can't we actually emulate a mountain and get an armor aura, or a massive Overheal like a disposable health pool ala Overshields.

[Vargras]

Whoa.....you guys make it sound like Unairu is the worst one.... o -o......like out of all of them.....

Because it is.

 

The trees in the best shape right now are Naramon and Zenurik, by far, and in that order. Naramon has some incredibly strong passives and generally useful ability upgrades, with Zenurik being the same. Madurai is in alright shape too, though not as well as Naramon and Zenurik. Vazarin is lacking in a few departments, and is basically bottom-of-the-barrel alongside Unairu, but can be brought up to par after some relatively simple adjustments.

 

Unairu is totally incomparable, in that none of the other trees are in as bad a shape as it.

[Davoodoo]

Its not unairu, all of focuses are that pathetic.

 

Zenurik is best atm with energy regen. 

 

 

Also idk why you say naramon is great, shadow step stopped working after they hotfixed it and tbh it would be only great thing about it.

15/20/25/30% increased crit chance for melee is nothing, opening to finishers is what radial blind does already without ridiculous cooldown, aoe invis can already be provided by ivara and ash again without ridiculous cooldown, tiny % chance to disarm?? we got loki.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Zarozian]

Alright well shoot.

 

If they're going to scrap the whole thing and rebuild it I'm gonna need 11 new abilities for Unairu~

 

Wanna help me come up with them? o -o

[blazinvire]

I'm always up for brainstorming; thinking is my favourite pastime.

 

But... I'm not sure on what DE's goal for Focus was, besides some sort of use for Affinity after max, and a slice of endgame.

I've got ideas, but I could be aiming in totally the wrong direction.

 

Like Unairu is about the Mountain-Splitting-The-Sky, but we have a chest-laser that petrifies things... I'm not even sure...

 

And not to mention, a lot of Focus abilities seem to be similar to existing Warframe powers, which can be both useful and annoying; do we run in theme and try making a passive that operates similar to Vex Armor, or attempt to build something unique and have the player petrify themselves and slow everything in the area or something equally crazy.

[Zarozian]

I'm always up for brainstorming; thinking is my favourite pastime.

 

But... I'm not sure on what DE's goal for Focus was, besides some sort of use for Affinity after max, and a slice of endgame.

I've got ideas, but I could be aiming in totally the wrong direction.

 

Like Unairu is about the Mountain-Splitting-The-Sky, but we have a chest-laser that petrifies things... I'm not even sure...

 

And not to mention, a lot of Focus abilities seem to be similar to existing Warframe powers, which can be both useful and annoying; do we run in theme and try making a passive that operates similar to Vex Armor, or attempt to build something unique and have the player petrify themselves and slow everything in the area or something equally crazy.

No no no~

 

Unairu's description specifically said it was about enduring enemy aggression and outlasting them! >;O

[blazinvire]

Well it also hinted at 'avoiding combat altogether' for which it inferred CC -which to some degree it does assist in enduring enemy aggression when they have difficulty delivering said aggression.

 

My first suggestion would probably be some sort of Overhealth like Overshields, that using the ability just slaps you with an extra 3k hp, and maybe stuff happens while you've got that extra health.

And my mention of Vex Armor wasn't random; becoming harder to kill the more damage you take seems fairly appropriate -maybe it reduces your movement speed as a trade-off since you're basically becoming a mountain.  But that's like Medusa Skin copying Frost's passive.

If you wanted to make it a little different the buff could be very short, lasting about 1-2 seconds but scales quickly so repeated attacks aren't effective.

[Zarozian]

Well it also hinted at 'avoiding combat altogether' for which it inferred CC -which to some degree it does assist in enduring enemy aggression when they have difficulty delivering said aggression.

 

My first suggestion would probably be some sort of Overhealth like Overshields, that using the ability just slaps you with an extra 3k hp, and maybe stuff happens while you've got that extra health.

And my mention of Vex Armor wasn't random; becoming harder to kill the more damage you take seems fairly appropriate -maybe it reduces your movement speed as a trade-off since you're basically becoming a mountain.  But that's like Medusa Skin copying Frost's passive.

If you wanted to make it a little different the buff could be very short, lasting about 1-2 seconds but scales quickly so repeated attacks aren't effective.

Yeah like a passive increase to hp and shields, and increased regeneration speed for both shields and health, along with a large increase to armor too of course.

 

As well as passive resistance to knockdown gained after activating and some sort of defensive ability like Medusa's touch, only it affects all enemies who shoot at you or melee you and turns them into stone!

 

But what to do about the extra debuffs and turning people into stone as well as damaging them over time and etc?

 

Like they aren't that useless to take them out or change....but at this point there's no other choice unless DE wants to merge some of them together to make room.

[Artekkor]

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that this upgrade resuces the move speed of Warframe, not of the Operator during focus-use?

Because if this is what you are implaying... Holy S#&$.

[Zarozian]

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that this upgrade resuces the move speed of Warframe, not of the Operator during focus-use?

Because if this is what you are implaying... Holy S#&$.

 

I believe it's likely the operator but the ability itself is useless anyways and not worth it at all, so I won't even bother getting it. =/

 

I just hope they fix and improve the focus system soon. I want something fun.....and worth the investment.....

[V4YR4]

I feel like all Focus trees should get a major rework and general buff. Currently too many of them are not at all tailored to end-game frames, weapons and mods. In fact, only Zenurik really caters well to end game builds due to the passive energy regen. The rest is mostly lackluster and a total waste of time, both in getting the focus for it and actually using it in missions. I feel like the Grineer and Corpus are laughing their asses off when they see those little kids floating around for a few seconds.

Edited December 12, 2015 by V4YR4

[Thrymm]

No no no~

 

Unairu's description specifically said it was about enduring enemy aggression and outlasting them! >;O

Which is why I took it, even.  Somewhat ironically, that philosophy is what I play all the time.....as Frost.  Tough, relatively immobile, strong CC.  What better tree than something that actually bolsters what is already my strength!

 

Unairu uses Frosts passive as one of its own, which almost defaults it to not useful for Frost.  The second passive reduces armor with melee attacks.......same as Frosts Avalanche.  The middle is an armor boost, and frankly the only semi useful thing in the tree.  The "main" ability is outright useless, especially if you're already playing this philosophy..........Frost freezes more things solid in five seconds with energy than you could ever hope to with the petrify laser.  Sooo......the frame in the game that is already the defensive mountain that outlasts enemy aggression literally does everything the complimentary tree does, except better.

 

1.  Basilisk Flare needs a monster boost.  I'm thinking something along the lines of a ten second petrify, instant cast burst radial AE.  It retains the original CC intent but actually gives it hope of doing something.  Change the boosts to the ability to a DOT that works while they are petrified(say, 5% of hp), and perhaps a slash DOT again(another 5%, if you're carrying both that's alot of focus and you're taking a looong time to kill them anyway, certain death in that regard isn't terribly overpowered) when they come out of it.

 

2.  Change the armor buff to a numeric amount, and I mean 100/200/300 or so, and interacts with mods.  This makes it a very complimentary tree to the armor frames, and a strong option to bolster weaknesses in low armor frames.  As a percentage it's useless to them, and the percentage is too small anyway.

 

3.  Get rid of the petrify on melee hit.  It's just not all that useful and certainly not investing in.  Replace with a chance to proc shields in some way, or a chance to proc an armor boost when hit.  Say, 5-10-15%, but ALL hits, and a real boost at that, like 150-300-500 armor in each tier for ten to fifteen seconds.  It outlasts, it endures, and it's not offensive, per the tree description.

 

4.  Get rid of the armor reduction on melee hit perk.  If you want melee hit perks, Naramon blows this out of the water.  If we want to continue with defensive, enduring, how about invulnerability for 1/2/3 seconds after landing from a bullet jump and jumps that would proc heavy impact?  It's a period of time that a frame is vulnerable that can find defense useful, and doesn't extend so long as to allow invulnerable attacking.

 

Or a variety of other stuff, those are just defensive ideas that I think might be useful and not necessarily overpowering, and really more in line with what I expected from the tree.

[Artekkor]

I believe it's likely the operator but the ability itself is useless anyways and not worth it at all, so I won't even bother getting it. =/

I just hope they fix and improve the focus system soon. I want something fun.....and worth the investment.....

Well the thing is: i'm actually kinda happy about the skill and upgrades... The ONLY problem i see is insane cooldown. I just bought my first upgrade and it increased 180 seconds to 225 or something. Like... WHAT? Just when my skill will get actually useful i will have to wait 400 seconds to use it with no way of speeding up? This is insane!

In case you're wondering: i already thought through which upgrades i'm gonna get:

1) Explosion in the end

2) Faster stoning, i don't care about MS at this point

3) DOT damage (the one with 2000 per second)

As a Rhino main player i can:

1) Enhance all of this with Roar

2) Stomp my enemies making them easier target for the beam

Super-duper combo that supposed to wreck some faces when i'll finish.

Cooldown is the only problem for me, really. Like, this all is cool and all, but what's the point if i will have a cooldown of 10 minutes. Most missions do not even last that long!

And yes: some abilities like passive armor buff are pretty weak... Considering that they will add even more to the cooldown.

They should hust remove cooldown-increasing thing and buff few upgrades there and there and i will be fine with it.

[CRCGamer]

Alright here is a stab at what I'd think a *good* Unairu would somewhat look like.

 

Primary ability:

Obsidian Hide - For 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 seconds channel the power of the earth attracting enemy attention and returning 150 / 200 / 250 / 300% damage received as Slash damage. Obviously pre-req for all other skills.

Obsidian Hide Mastery - Reduces cooldown by 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 seconds.

 

Passives:

Stone Shape - Grants 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 flat armor and is a pre-req for the other two passives.

Troll's Vitality - Gives an additional 150 flat health and imparts 3 / 5 / 7 / 9 health regeneration a second.

Mighty Blows - Imparts an additional 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% impact damage on melee attacks from total base damage (not what is just innately on the weapon naturally). With a fixed 25% proc chance of stagger on any melee attack.

 

End effect branch:

Mountain's Fury - Stores damage during the duration of Obsidian Hide, on end erupts in cataclysmic fury dealing 50% of all damage stored as piercing damage to all enemies within 5 / 8 / 11 / 14 meters. Pre-req for following skill.

Magma Chamber - Once every 2 seconds upon taking health damage reduce cooldown of Obsidian Hide by 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds.

 

Augmentation branch:

Rain of Stones - For every second an enemy is taking returned damage from Obsidian Hide its armor is shredded by 5 / 7 / 9 / 11%. Pre-req for following skills. (For the numbers aficionados any enemy within the effect for the full 21 seconds would be reduced to ~8% of its normal armor.)

Cloud of Cinders - Any enemies within 20 meters are subject to a 2000 / 3000 / 4000 / 5000 burn damage 35% chance proc every second for the duration of Obsidian Hide.

Hidden in Smoke - All allies within 7 / 10 / 13 / 16 meters are invisible when not attacking for the duration of Obsidian Hide.

Stability of Stone - You and all allies are given 100% knockdown immunity for 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds upon casting Obsidian Hide.

 

There... now I *realize* that reflected damage in this game is fairly weak, but if you look over the tree I built you'll realize that it is mostly just chipping damage that keeps enemy attention while everything else in a filled out tree does the real work. (And shreds the unfortunates smacking you into a finely roasted paste.)

[Zarozian]

Alright here is a stab at what I'd think a *good* Unairu would somewhat look like.

 

Primary ability:

Obsidian Hide - For 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 seconds channel the power of the earth attracting enemy attention and returning 150 / 200 / 250 / 300% damage received as Slash damage. Obviously pre-req for all other skills.

Obsidian Hide Mastery - Reduces cooldown by 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 seconds.

 

Passives:

Stone Shape - Grants 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 flat armor and is a pre-req for the other two passives.

Troll's Vitality - Gives an additional 150 flat health and imparts 3 / 5 / 7 / 9 health regeneration a second.

Mighty Blows - Imparts an additional 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% impact damage on melee attacks from total base damage (not what is just innately on the weapon naturally). With a fixed 25% proc chance of stagger on any melee attack.

 

End effect branch:

Mountain's Fury - Stores damage during the duration of Obsidian Hide, on end erupts in cataclysmic fury dealing 50% of all damage stored as piercing damage to all enemies within 5 / 8 / 11 / 14 meters. Pre-req for following skill.

Magma Chamber - Once every 2 seconds upon taking health damage reduce cooldown of Obsidian Hide by 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds.

 

Augmentation branch:

Rain of Stones - For every second an enemy is taking returned damage from Obsidian Hide its armor is shredded by 5 / 7 / 9 / 11%. Pre-req for following skills. (For the numbers aficionados any enemy within the effect for the full 21 seconds would be reduced to ~8% of its normal armor.)

Cloud of Cinders - Any enemies within 20 meters are subject to a 2000 / 3000 / 4000 / 5000 burn damage 35% chance proc every second for the duration of Obsidian Hide.

Hidden in Smoke - All allies within 7 / 10 / 13 / 16 meters are invisible when not attacking for the duration of Obsidian Hide.

Stability of Stone - You and all allies are given 100% knockdown immunity for 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds upon casting Obsidian Hide.

 

There... now I *realize* that reflected damage in this game is fairly weak, but if you look over the tree I built you'll realize that it is mostly just chipping damage that keeps enemy attention while everything else in a filled out tree does the real work. (And shreds the unfortunates smacking you into a finely roasted paste.)

No this won't do.

We need more defensive, not counter or damaging abilities, it has to fit it's description.

Think additional passive shields, health, and armor increases for the duration of the mission and shield and health regen time reduced and regen speed increased. Stuff like that.

Also remember that Unairu is a mountain breaking the sky, so you should name its abilities accordingly.

[CRCGamer]

No this won't do.

We need more defensive, not counter or damaging abilities, it has to fit it's description.

Think additional passive shields, health, and armor increases for the duration of the mission and shield and health regen time reduced and regen speed increased. Stuff like that.

Also remember that Unairu is a mountain breaking the sky, so you should name its abilities accordingly.

Problem is, I don't think they want to give us a juggernaut mode. Quite simply because the way the system is set up... they have no way of currently letting us use the mode as a complete character swap. Which is what it would take... and given this game is a Horde Mode shooter? Anything without some gallery cleaning gets tossed.

 

The only other way would be to give the tree something to the tune of at least a half dozen passives and auras. At which point the active ability is simply a glorified activation key. And "Stat sticks" are another pet peeve of a lot of developers, because if its not good enough everyone whines... and if its overpowered everyone whines when it gets nerfed.

[Zarozian]

Problem is, I don't think they want to give us a juggernaut mode. Quite simply because the way the system is set up... they have no way of currently letting us use the mode as a complete character swap. Which is what it would take... and given this game is a Horde Mode shooter? Anything without some gallery cleaning gets tossed.

 

The only other way would be to give the tree something to the tune of at least a half dozen passives and auras. At which point the active ability is simply a glorified activation key. And "Stat sticks" are another pet peeve of a lot of developers, because if its not good enough everyone whines... and if its overpowered everyone whines when it gets nerfed.

Well if people wanted some gallery cleaning, they would have gone for Madurai, but any of that is better than what it currently is now, you saw how much people were disgusted with Unairu, they demanded the whole thing to be scrapped. =\

But about being overpowered. How overpowering is it to really play on the defensive rather than focusin g on all out offense?

I also believe people won't complain at all, but rather they are upset right now that the focus system is underwhelming underpowered right now, and nothing like this beast mode or avatar state that they thought of. So please. Don't be afraid to dream of a bigger gun.

[DSpite]

I see myself saying this a lot:

 

Focus is not your new personal "power creep". It is designed to complement what we have and make us more unique.

 

It is not, and should NOT become the new Meta to go an extra hour in Endless. If you seriously think DE will just boost stats by an order of magnitude to make that happen, well, I have news for you.

[Davoodoo]

I see myself saying this a lot:

 

Focus is not your new personal "power creep". It is designed to complement what we have and make us more unique.

 

It is not, and should NOT become the new Meta to go an extra hour in Endless. If you seriously think DE will just boost stats by an order of magnitude to make that happen, well, I have news for you.

Yep goal achieved, only thing worth equipping are certain passives.

Guess why zenurik sells like cupcakes.

All of actives are pretty much worse versions of standard abilities, except for dmg but these are limited by cooldown and only barely more powerful.

 

Then due to cooldown, no matter how strong you make it, you can easily balance it with long cooldown.

It can wipe out whole map, score you 1000 kills, but for next 5 minutes you will have to do without it.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Davoodoo

[motorfirebox]

I've given extensive feedback on Unairu via other venues, but I'll do so here as well, since you'd like proof of it.

 

Thematically, Unairu doesn't fit. At all. It's described in-game as: "They pushed themselves to outlast the enemy, to withstand all aggression without retreat. They believed that if the enemy could not match their endurance, then a battle could be won without having even commenced." Unairu, in its current state, doesn't even begin to sell this fantasy to the player. I kinda get what the point was: Unairu is a mountain so turn guys to stone, but I'm a tank person -- I like to tank in games. I like to be big and beefy and take hits for my buddies, and it sounded like Unairu was right up my alley and would give me what I wanted. Instead, we end up with a tree that seemingly has an identity crisis and focuses on crowd control, despite there being no mention of crowd control in the description. The only durability-increasing passives aren't worth using, as they're so low to the point of uselessness. The only possible exception is the armor increase to allies, but the armor buff is situational as it's a percentage increase and not a static value, and also requires you to hit your ally with the beam, which has pinpoint accuracy and zero forgiveness. The rest of the tree is solely dedicated to extremely situational effects, sub-par increases that are easily replaced by low-leveled mods or pre-existing systems, or to a nigh-useless beam that can't even begin to do its sole job of crowd control all that well.

 

Totally regardless of if I want to tank in the traditional RPG sense, this tree does nothing for me, and it has no value for someone trying to become more durable. It has no value for someone trying to control enemies (that's Zenurik). It can't even hope to sell its fantasy, and fails to live up to its own description. I absolutely feel like Unairu, as we know it, needs to be completely and totally scrapped and reworked from the ground up. Different active effect, different passives, everything. It needs something to set it apart from the other Ways (hi, Zenurik. Again.). It needs to be able to sell its fantasy of the player being able to weather blows. It needs to actually be good and have potential. I don't think tweaking numbers will help. Not at this point, and not after really getting to use it on the public build.

 

I agree with this part completely. As far as fixes, honestly, the starting place for me would be to just plain replace Basilisk Flare with something else. It just doesn't make any sense as a tanking ability, much less the primary ability for a tanking powerset. I'm not sure what I'd replace it with—maybe some kind of ability to build walls or shields?—but the Basilisk Flare just doesn't fit. It needs to go all the way back to the drawing board.

Edited December 12, 2015 by motorfirebox

[Zarozian]

I'm wondering what DE will do about this~

Edited December 12, 2015 by Zarozian

[Zarozian]

Well the thing is: i'm actually kinda happy about the skill and upgrades... The ONLY problem i see is insane cooldown. I just bought my first upgrade and it increased 180 seconds to 225 or something. Like... WHAT? Just when my skill will get actually useful i will have to wait 400 seconds to use it with no way of speeding up? This is insane!

In case you're wondering: i already thought through which upgrades i'm gonna get:

1) Explosion in the end

2) Faster stoning, i don't care about MS at this point

3) DOT damage (the one with 2000 per second)

As a Rhino main player i can:

1) Enhance all of this with Roar

2) Stomp my enemies making them easier target for the beam

Super-duper combo that supposed to wreck some faces when i'll finish.

Cooldown is the only problem for me, really. Like, this all is cool and all, but what's the point if i will have a cooldown of 10 minutes. Most missions do not even last that long!

And yes: some abilities like passive armor buff are pretty weak... Considering that they will add even more to the cooldown.

They should hust remove cooldown-increasing thing and buff few upgrades there and there and i will be fine with it.

Yeah those are the upgrades I'd be fine with keeping, however Unairu severely lacks in the defensive passives and buffs. Stone Shape only grants an additional 12% Armor at max!

 

That's just really screwing us Unairu users over!

[Zarozian]

Have they buffed Unairu yet? ;O