I'd Like To Keep Warframe Skins And Abilities Seperate

[AdunSaveMe]

Well they do, but from what I've read (somewhere on the forums) they'd rather have a male-version but with different abilities, like Nezah; from what I've read and seen, he is basically the male-equivalent of Ember in that they share an element: fire.

My point is that this one similarity isn't enough to consider it the male counterpart. A male counterpart, sure, but not the, and certainly not what most of us had in mind when they brought up the concept of alternate-gendered frames with the same theme.

 

But I digest.

[Raiq]

The Second Dream will basically tell you "No, this is not going to happen and this is why."

 

Ever wonder why you had voice chat in game and the Tenno had no voice?

 

I feel the changes only satisfies people like you that make this thread and ruins the immersion for players like me that already figured out how it works because of the codex. I'm afraid you'll have mixed feelings on this one after you learn the truth anyway, I feel the quest has only ruined the immersion for me.

 

I've just been reading the spoiler mega threads, and you are correct, i do have mixed feelings about it. In fact, there are hints in the lore way before the Second Dream, but as the lore made no qualitative difference to the gameplay and immersion issues described in the OP, it sort of felt like developers justifying lack of development in certain areas because "lore reasons", rather than the other way around.

 

Anyway, this thread was started not to demand or expect changes, but to express an opinion. I like Warframe enough to play occasionally, but the OP describes why more and more i'm not actively doing so.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Raiq

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Couple of thoughts:

Firstly, the frames health, shields, armour, speed etc are usually related to their skill set, so that would all have to move along with the powers if they did become swappable.

Secondly, if they did do this it would have to be for solo play only. It would be far to confusing in squads and pvp if any frame could have any skill set.

[s3b4st13n]

My point is that this one similarity isn't enough to consider it the male counterpart. A male counterpart, sure, but not the, and certainly not what most of us had in mind when they brought up the concept of alternate-gendered frames with the same theme.

 

But I digest.

 

Agreed. 

 

I'd much prefer a male/female options. Farm for Nyx Systems (Male)/Nyx Systems (Female), for example. The only problem with that is the lore and description are then off-kilter for what, I think, DE have in mind.  

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

I think it's kind of perverted to put breast on a robot or drone or what ever a warframe is if in fact there is no person inside. Right? Why do that?

[s3b4st13n]

PillarOfWar: Please wrap your comment with spoiler tags. 

The Second Dream spoilers inside.

I think it's kind of perverted to put breast on a robot or drone or what ever a warframe is if in fact there is no person inside. Right? Why do that?

 

Not perverted; simply human nature. We anthropomorphise (give human qualities/attributes to something not human) most -if not all- things in life; cars, ships and even robots.   

 

"In 2007, General Motors ran a commercial featuring an assembly-line robot that loses its job after dropping a screw. The robot doesn’t look human—it’s a mechanical arm and some hydraulics mounted on a metal body with wheel

 

But it definitely felt human, enough that viewers’ concerned and angry response compelled GM to pull a scene of the robot throwing itself off a bridge. It didn’t need a face, two arms, and two legs for people to empathize with its sad robot noises and string of dissatisfying jobs. It just needed to tilt its “head” the right way, and people could impress all sorts of human qualities upon it, just like we do with inanimate objects every day.

 

One of those qualities is gender, and unless given specific cues otherwise, most people faced with a robot tend to default to male. NASA’s robotic astronaut assistant Robonaut, for example, was designed to be gender-neutral. But that’s not how most people perceived it."

 

Attributing gender to something, such as a Warframe, allows us to bond with it and therefore relate to it and sympathise and support it. If it looked just like a Corpus walker, for example, there'd be no connection. If you've played The Second Dream, you'll understand what I mean by this. :)

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Kenboushou

[Otaiken]

This whole discussion again.

 

It boils down to preference for Avatars VS Characters. Warframes are not meant to be your avatar, your avatar is elsewhere, Warframes are characters. Sure, they're not as fleshed out as in for example RPGs but they do have some personality to them.

 

Turning Warframes into avatars would mean removing as much personality from them as possible which I'm starkly against. I'd rather have a cast of characters since that makes things more interesting than having just a single character: me. Playing as me in every game is really boring. I know me, I want to see differenet perspectives and I want to have ot think about how certain mindsets would think about different situations, that is more fun to me.

 

So what you're proposing would take away from my enjoyment and hence I'm against it. It's not a net benefit for everybody as you seem to put it. We have a thing now where avatar people can have their fill.

 

Warframes are already blank slate enough, if anything I would like to them to have more personality not less.

 

I think that the way DE handled this problem is pretty good and smart. There's something for both camps here. But this growing trend of almost fanatic reverence of player choice is concerning. Player choice is good, but you need structure, game that lets players do anything excels in nothing.

Edited December 20, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Evil.Eye]

I've got no problems with the gender thing. I am male; my favorite warframes are Nova and Mirage because of their abilities. That all being said...

 

...I always thought it would be a cool idea to have a Warframe 'skeleton' and skin it however we like. So you can get the 'powers' of one Warframe with the looks of another. The looks would be equippable. I realize this would be a witch to implement and would never happen. Nevertheless, I still thought it'd be cool.

 

TL;DR - having powers and looks separate would be cool, but I love the game as it is now, too.

 

So what? I male, have almost All the Femframes. Why Because i like there Powers and How they look over Most of the GuyFrames.

My emblem is even Nova, My Most Favorite.

 

Exceptions are Nezha, Limbo, and Default Frost. I don't even Have these frame, I dont have any of the GuyFrames as I priotritze the FemFrames. Complaining about Gender is completely is pointless.

Edited December 20, 2015 by UtopioParadoxi

[UrielColtan]

Its not like he gets to choose the gender of the frames after doing the quest or anything, and the quest personally made me hate the secret behind Tenno, so this TC might just find something else to criticize about them after it.

 

Personally, not having both genders for each frame is something I can tolerate, despite also preferring more customization for my custom character(

The one/s I actually play as, not that thing in the basement of my ship

), but it was the original intention of DE in the beginning, to have gender options for all the frames, before deciding that it was too hard or time consuming at the time. I think in the future they will be considering it though, since they've grown staff, tools and techniques. I think reasons like this, is why they are also vetting community help with Steam workshop and are trying to implement model rigging assistance into updates for it, so practically, new gendered models can indeed be created by the community as well.

Though it would be kinda bad if they charge for genders if people decide to do different gender Warframe models, so I don't know how they would handle that.

 

 

Yeah, you should do the Second Dream quest.

 

In total, the logic behind the gender locked frames is that in lore they are built based off an original Tenno as stated in the Excalibur codex. So every frame we use is a portrayal of that original Tenno, not ourselves.

 

 

That's an assumption, and there was no lore reason behind the specific genders, the real reason for singular genders was for behind the scenes technical reasons.

And due to the new retcon, its been suggested that Frames have been surrogates since the beginning. As suggested with the Rhino codex, and Lotus' words in the dialogue trees of the new quest.

The thing in the Warframe was/is not a Tenno, merely a surrogate.

.

Edited December 20, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Alexstraszo]

I think it's kind of perverted to put breast on a robot or drone or what ever a warframe is if in fact there is no person inside. Right? Why do that?

 

Might as well make them a giant blob, right?

[bad4youLT]

trinity prime runing around whit exalted blade ... no , no no no I dont want what .

 

Im used to recognizing frames be theyr looks and not powers , so when I see other players runing specific frame what can aid Il ask it .

Leting to pick looks and powers would mess up my expirience in squads while doing misions.

On top every frame has its theme tide to it .

 

I realy adivice you to do second dream , it will change your opinion on frames , no spoilers here .

[UrielColtan]

Might as well make them a giant blob, right?

 

Basically.

The only appeal to doing that is for the player, on the intial notion of tricking them into beliieving a person is actually wearing it as a suit.

In DE's attempt to explain the logic behind switching Warframes, (which never needed a lore explanation anymore than changing the appearance of your human), they just make things more questionable.

Edited December 20, 2015 by UrielColtan

[bad4youLT]

Basically.

The only appeal to doing that is for the player, on the intial notion of tricking them into beliieving a person is actually wearing it as a suit.

In DE's attempt to explain the logic behind switching Warframes, (which never needed a lore explanation anymore than changing the appearance of your human), they just make things more questionable.

 shshshsh

 

this is steping on line called spoiler

[PublikDomain]

it sort of felt like developers justifying lack of development in certain areas because "lore reasons", rather than the other way around.

They've been hinting at this for quite some time, now. Even Ember Prime's codex give hints, and that's from Nov 2013, over 2 years ago.

 

Edit: Dang, probably should have read the last 2 pages. inb4 lock.

Edited December 20, 2015 by PublikDomain

[Gelkor]

Wait, what? Different Warframe Skins don't change Warframe Powers, they never have.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Thread cleaned up quite a bit. 

Please remain respectful of your fellow Tenno and their opinions. Personally attacking these opinions, creating items of discussion to argue over just to argue over and attack eachother personally, is not constructive, is instead rude, and works to derail the topic from its original intention. 
Please be more mindful in future posts. 

Thank you.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

I am so done with this stupid idea of gender skins for warframes. DE has made this game and its lore in a specific way, they shouldn't change it because you don't like being a guy or a girl. If they were to do that would they have to add gender unspecific skins too to satiate all of the people out there who can't simply enjoy the game the way it is? Who really cares if you're playing as a chick? Or a dude! I'm a guy, and I love playing the female frames (Trinity, Nova, Nyx just to name a few) and I don't give two licks that they're not the same sex as me! If you don't like having genders on the frames, don't play the game.

 

Take this idea to ANY other game. Imagine people complaining so much about having to play as Lara Croft in Tomb Raider? Do we need to have an alternate skin version of her that makes her a guy just because some people are too sensitivity? NO! That's ridiculous!

Edited December 20, 2015 by (XB1)RequiemOfReason

[UrielColtan]

Tomb Raider is not a custom player character game, barely even a RPG. And why did you single out Tomb Raider?

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

Everyone loves customization, I myself can enjoy a game simply for having the option. But warframe is not based around full character customization, it's not an rpg, it's a character action game, which means that warframe is what it is because we play as characters we influence, but do not create. Would I love the ability to have a completely customized and personalized warframe stemming entirely from specific branching and diverse skill trees or varied point systems? Absolutely, completely, but that's not what I like in warframe, nor is it what I want, and I don't personally see that any different than making each frame nothing but a cheap duplicate, always coming in twos that add only half the work put in.

Am I saying it's a bad idea, or even a pointless sentiment, as I've seen posted in these threads dozens upon dozens of times? No, thatddoesn't add anything but venom. I just don't feel it would really add much unless they add a LOT alongside it to make the frames more customizable. Not yet, at least.

[Judgebanks]

Right, but here's a question, why should anyone cater to you?

 

Usually it takes a person dying for fifteen different types of cancer for developers to even consider catering to one specific person and their desires.

[kitsu]

Interesting way to see it, though warframes were never a skin, but considered weapons, even in the lore.

On a concept point, it be nice to have more diversity, but it breaks a few, lore standpoints and diverts resources as well.

Maybe tennogen can cover a gender changed frame, but even then, as a reskin, it will still follow the style and personality of said warframe's energy. So a male mirage would never act like ash, but like a court jester. Or a female loki would not act like saryn, but an agile trickster. Some would even say mirage is the female loki. Like nezha is the male ember.

 

Though based on calling warframes skins, if what you want is an ash that can change powers between all the warframes, and still keep the ash look, that... I'd be against that. It would break everything that warframe is about.

 

Gender changed skinned warframes would be neat, but would probably be sold as a skin, either through DE or tennogen.

Im all for it, but be ready to shell out either plat or steam money if it happens.

 

On second thought, gender changed warframes would mean an entire set of animations for those frames, meaning more costs to produce...

Man its a difficult subject, especially on the time and resources needed to gender change 28 warframes and every future warframe too.

 

As for an actual in game avatar: (Second dream major spoilers)

The operator, or as others call them, the tenno, is the real controler of the warframes. Warframes being nothing more than a weapon the operator can control, like a remote control mech. The second dream and the confirmation of the existance of the tenno operator was to answer the kind of "I want there to be a me" in warframe.

Edited December 21, 2015 by kitsu

[Azlen]

Not gonna go through all the posts, but still want to make this point. They aren't 'skins' they are characters. They ARE what they are. Bastille is Vauban and Hysteria is Valkyr. Speed is Volt and Turbulence is Zephyr. Just because you have a problem looking a certain way doesn't mean they should pander to your needs. Do you complain about every RPG you play? Even though the character IS the character. They have a name, a story, a look, and a style that is completely independent of you and what You want. And they shouldn't be made flexibly different just because you don't like it. This an MMORPG where you create your character and play how you want. It's a game where you figure out what works for you, and you play that. Like that Loki? Stealth it up. Crazy cat lady more your speed? Valkyr welcomes you. Brute force how you roll? Rhino's got your back.

 

But you want to be a special snowflake and make it feel like its' really you? Go play the 2nd dream quest. That's as close as it gets. Elsewise, Welcome to Warframe.

[CapnFusterCluck]

I don't think DE really intends to make such a drastic change; it's not really the direction that they're looking to go for. I don't really mean to rain on your parade, but it's something that's probably never going to get implemented. I guess I'd be okay with the idea if ever got implemented, though I don't have high hopes for it.

[UrielColtan]

Everyone loves customization, I myself can enjoy a game simply for having the option. But warframe is not based around full character customization, it's not an rpg, it's a character action game, which means that warframe is what it is because we play as characters we influence, but do not create. Would I love the ability to have a completely customized and personalized warframe stemming entirely from specific branching and diverse skill trees or varied point systems? Absolutely, completely, but that's not what I like in warframe, nor is it what I want, and I don't personally see that any different than making each frame nothing but a cheap duplicate, always coming in twos that add only half the work put in.

Am I saying it's a bad idea, or even a pointless sentiment, as I've seen posted in these threads dozens upon dozens of times? No, thatddoesn't add anything but venom. I just don't feel it would really add much unless they add a LOT alongside it to make the frames more customizable. Not yet, at least.

 

Customization is a big part of the game,  particularly in regards to expanding it. The game borrows quite a bit from DnD esque RPG character class roles, and aims to put more emphasis on the lore.

The game does not allow your warframes gender to be customized...right now. Just as a lot of things we have did not used to exist. The game just introduced some player character insert to customize with gender, and allowing for dual gender choices of frames was an original plan of the game, they only refrained originally, due to time constraints and not enough man power. Though with how much they have expanded in tools, techniques and staff, this assignment can inevitably be assigned with less effort than when they started.  Not that I'm really in a rush to have this in the game myself, but if people want this then requesting it long enough can inevitably convince them to lay down plans for it in the future, or vet community built models.

This game is built off of crowd sourcing afterall. There have been many things put in that people thought would never happen if you have been following since the early days. I used to be one of the naysayers myself until some changes happened and I realized the influence of community requests here.

I say few things short of reneging on founder items, are completely off the table.

Edited December 21, 2015 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

Right, but here's a question, why should anyone cater to you?

 

Usually it takes a person dying for fifteen different types of cancer for developers to even consider catering to one specific person and their desires.

 

Why should anyone cater to customers?