IceColdHawk Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) A good player will just pop the bubble and then ram an AoE up through the mobs. A bad player will rage. Which are yu? If yur using a Bow or Sniper, bring a secondary apt at putting down bubbles. Don't even have to destroy it, just shrink it enough so that it doesn't cover the entire mob. The reason Nullifiers exist is to counter Mag. If Nullifiers never existed, not even the Combas can stop her, she will blow out their shields and fry them from a mile away. Nullifers must stay. Funny you say he's there to counter mag. Have seen several mags oneshotting him through his bubble with shield polarize. And when i were drunk what i don't believe, you can still burst the bubble with the good ol' soma prime and then tell mag to press 2. Actually as this guy said: nullifiers should just be weaker to snipers and rarer. Their commonness just shows how little unit diversity the corpus have I got no problem when they wouldn't spawn so often. Now there are players who maybe just don't want to play against lvl 20 nullis which are one shot from anything anyway but go higher and have to rely on cc. The only things quite good against him are equinox and blind mirage when his bubble is down or mag. Everything else is useless. I wouldn't even mind if only the bubble will refresh after like 25 seconds and not 5 seconds to make him less of a god. I find it amusing how people seem to ,,like" nullies here on the forums but probably getting annoyed when they see them on mass in-game. Just leaving it here, we used to equip special weapons to counter him already. Namely synoid simulor, sonicor, ignis, torid, penta or ogris (Did i forget something?). But everything that worked well against him got nerfed to not work against him anymore. This guy is just stupid and broken and unfortunately somehow prefered, don't ask me why. I prefer strong enemies and hard to beat instead of annoying sniping things that can't be properly countered. All the people complaining because they can't spam abilities to clean out rooms with Ash or Mag. This is the reason why they exist, why they decline at a caped rate (spraying won't make it pop faster) is to help counter all the AoE spam. Without those Nullifiers everybody will be playing mag for easy wins. Lel, mag still here for easy wins. Also, not everyone plays ,,4towin", but there are people who play specific frames because of their ABILITIES. Why pick a frame when only weapons are needed? To the thing about combas, they don't block EVERY ability, only a few. Every kind of them got their own resistances. Diversity. I thought you love this? Edited December 21, 2015 by IceColdHawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Lube Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 A good player will just pop the bubble and then ram an AoE up through the mobs. A bad player will rage. Which are yu? If yur using a Bow or Sniper, bring a secondary apt at putting down bubbles. Don't even have to destroy it, just shrink it enough so that it doesn't cover the entire mob. The reason Nullifiers exist is to counter Mag. If Nullifiers never existed, not even the Combas can stop her, she will blow out their shields and fry them from a mile away. Nullifers must stay. That is a terrible reason to keep Nullies. Creating an enemy to counter ONE frame is stupid. If she is as broken as you say then she needs a re-kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelshark Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 All the people complaining because they can't spam abilities to clean out rooms with Ash or Mag. This is the reason why they exist, why they decline at a caped rate (spraying won't make it pop faster) is to help counter all the AoE spam. Without those Nullifiers everybody will be playing mag for easy wins. A good player will just pop the bubble and then ram an AoE up through the mobs. A bad player will rage. Which are yu? If yur using a Bow or Sniper, bring a secondary apt at putting down bubbles. Don't even have to destroy it, just shrink it enough so that it doesn't cover the entire mob. The reason Nullifiers exist is to counter Mag. If Nullifiers never existed, not even the Combas can stop her, she will blow out their shields and fry them from a mile away. Nullifers must stay. Nullifiers are a lazy quick fix to a bigger problem. If ability spam is an issue then a enemy that simply exists to deny them isn't a very good solution. A better solution would've been to re-balance the abilities, frames and enemies so it wouldn't be an issue. Doing that would also be better for the game overall. That being said, re-balancing nearly everything is a lot of work, and would essentially nullify nearly everything that has been released since, in my mind U10, so Warframe is in such a deep hole that re-balancing everything would destroy the game entirely. So yeah, they will need to stay if DE never actually attempts to solve the problem at it's core. Of course, they should of not been needed in the first place. The new Corpus enemies are much better than Nullifiers. Sure they are still a work around of the actual problem, but at least they doing in a more interesting rather than just a globe that just blocks and negates powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Nullifiers are a lazy quick fix to a bigger problem. If ability spam is an issue then a enemy that simply exists to deny them isn't a very good solution. A better solution would've been to re-balance the abilities, frames and enemies so it wouldn't be an issue. Doing that would also be better for the game overall. That being said, re-balancing nearly everything is a lot of work, and would essentially nullify nearly everything that has been released since, in my mind U10, so Warframe is in such a deep hole that re-balancing everything would destroy the game entirely. So yeah, they will need to stay if DE never actually attempts to solve the problem at it's core. Of course, they should of not been needed in the first place. The new Corpus enemies are much better than Nullifiers. Sure they are still a work around of the actual problem, but at least they doing in a more interesting rather than just a globe that just blocks and negates powers. By yur philosophy : Taking damage causes death, having something that denies death is just lazy way to fix a problem with enemy scaling ; nerf Frost Globe. The new Corpus enemies are just radial jamming Eximus. Yu can still knock them out from a mile away. Nullifiers are things that protect anything in their bubble, and to give it a bonus, the Bubble can be popped. Added bonus, nothing stands in the way of the bubbles so yu can easily just pop it and nuke. People who say Nullifiers are lazy way to fix a problem are probably lazy themselves too. If yur too damn lazy to pop the shiny bubble before nuking them, yur either a) No nuking abilities anyway, so didn't bother with it b) afk I have encountered many Nullifiers and none of them gave me any troubles AT ALL All I did was place 3 shots into the bubble to shrink it down, nuke the mobs around the Nullifier, then finish him off. It is easy because it is so cookie cutter, anyone can do it. If yur not even gonna make an effort to try, then don't complain. Mark my words : Remove Nullifiers, and Viver/Ceberus is reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) That is a terrible reason to keep Nullies. Creating an enemy to counter ONE frame is stupid. If she is as broken as you say then she needs a re-kit. Guess what can also massacre on an AoE level? Every other frame with an AoE burst. But let's be real ; Nullies were indeed made for Mag when the whole Viver/Ceberus thing happened. Mag might need a rework, but Nullies still need to exist for other frames that can cause as much AoE damage. Alternate way Nullies can function : They have jamming Auras like Combas, and they lob Nullifying Spheres at us like Bursas. Edited December 21, 2015 by YasaiTsume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelshark Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) By yur philosophy : Taking damage causes death, having something that denies death is just lazy way to fix a problem with enemy scaling ; nerf Frost Globe. The new Corpus enemies are just radial jamming Eximus. Yu can still knock them out from a mile away. Nullifiers are things that protect anything in their bubble, and to give it a bonus, the Bubble can be popped. Added bonus, nothing stands in the way of the bubbles so yu can easily just pop it and nuke. People who say Nullifiers are lazy way to fix a problem are probably lazy themselves too. If yur too damn lazy to pop the shiny bubble before nuking them, yur either a) No nuking abilities anyway, so didn't bother with it b) afk I have encountered many Nullifiers and none of them gave me any troubles AT ALL All I did was place 3 shots into the bubble to shrink it down, nuke the mobs around the Nullifier, then finish him off. It is easy because it is so cookie cutter, anyone can do it. If yur not even gonna make an effort to try, then don't complain. Mark my words : Remove Nullifiers, and Viver/Ceberus is reborn. You missed the point entirely. We would not need nullifiers IF abilities had been well balanced already. They are a work around of the actual problem. If DE had tried to settle the problem of ability spam ages ago by reworking the system, instead of adding to the problem (powercreep) and adding work arounds (nullifiers, comba/scrumba), then neither of these enemies would have been needed in the first place. Edited December 21, 2015 by nickelshark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) You missed the point entirely. We would not need nullifiers IF abilities had been well balanced already. They are a work around of the actual problem. If DE had tried to settle the problem of ability spam ages ago by reworking the system, instead of adding to the problem (powercreep) and adding work arounds (nullifiers, comba/scrumba), then neither of these enemies would have been needed in the first place. Then the game would get stale. These are all good reasons to add enemy diversity. If DE would just make Nullifiers and Combas more "mage like" and fragile, while providing backline support, they are excellent units to keep. DE knows players are used to, and still enjoy, nuking with a press of a button, or stunning an entire room, but they do not just want to gut it, so they divise new units that forces the player to work around them before being able to return to normal gameplay, which is fine. A great example of a supportive unit in games is the Siren from Killing Floor. They are hella annoying, destroys grenades and rockets, basically an anti explosives support unit. Nullies are the same exact thing, they stop players from cleaning house, making them a bigger threat than others, which is all about strategy Edited December 21, 2015 by YasaiTsume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 As a side-rant, Sapping Osprey are absolute garbage as well. Throwing down multiple projectiles with huge AOE that are invulnerable until they land, and once they land they instantly start dealing insane damage even while in mid-air above them. They also take quite a bit of damage to destroy, and then once you destroy one 3 more are placed down anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FATEdPondera Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Scared the heck out of me first time I saw one. Dropped me right out of Loki stealth in a spy mission after the first vault. I regretted not bringing any weapons aside from the bow I was leveling with vault exp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viedra_Lavinova Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Arctic Eximus Nullifer, best idea I ever saw lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Lube Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Then the game would get stale. These are all good reasons to add enemy diversity. If DE would just make Nullifiers and Combas more "mage like" and fragile, while providing backline support, they are excellent units to keep. DE knows players are used to, and still enjoy, nuking with a press of a button, or stunning an entire room, but they do not just want to gut it, so they divise new units that forces the player to work around them before being able to return to normal gameplay, which is fine. A great example of a supportive unit in games is the Siren from Killing Floor. They are hella annoying, destroys grenades and rockets, basically an anti explosives support unit. Nullies are the same exact thing, they stop players from cleaning house, making them a bigger threat than others, which is all about strategy The game would not be stale. It would be a challenging, but balanced co-op experience that requires more than just pressing a couple buttons. Spamming abilities is not the only way to have fun believe it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Okay I am not sure but what weapon can limit you from taking out the bubble? Tonkor? Bow? Torid? Penta? a Sniper? ......We do own secondary still right? and we have melee right? Here is a tip which I gotten a warning for saying it before but I feel like I needed to be say get good at aiming your weapons not aiming straight at them will kill them... I put torid right in the path they will walk or latch it to an enemy that is entering that takes care of the buble as well as the enemy Bow I don't charge it the bubble work on damage gap anyways that it only needs so many hits...like really it has range and no matter the level the enemy is the same range penta aim the grenade at the floor....pretty much it as well as tonkor then set it off Sniper is what I am good at UNLESS your using Lanka I don't see how you can have problem my snipetron vandal takes care of it I used the ballista sniper as well and others alike at most I need to us e6 bullets on my snipetron vandal to take out the bubble and by the time I reload his bubble hasn't recover oh and I am not using any speed mods such as reload of fire speed. the burst weapon have it good Shotgun have it good riffle have it good secondary weapon usually when I use Lanka I have Something like Dex furis modded for crowed control blast procs.....to take out a bubble no problem. Not sure why u would have an issue with the bubble at all sure when bubble overlap with one another and their are many nullifiers yeah I can see it but that is when weapons like torid ogris and penta and tonkor shine. Well bows and sniper will have an issue here. but that them not really limiting you when you have so much more you can still use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swailwort Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 So incredible comments over here. I have already said that Nulifiers are a cheap mechanic and they need to be removed or changed. Ivara is not a 4 to win Frame or a Nuke like Mag, but she needs to pay as well. You can't melee a Nulifiers because you will be dead in 3 seconds. You Can Switch To A Secondary because you are surrounded by enemies and your primary takes years to take down a Nulifiers. The bubble needs to be changed to be like Artic Bubbles, pop able in one shot or removed entirely. There is no other way, despicable nuli defenders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Okay please lets not make the game easier then it already is.In my eyes I see enemy that can disrupt our gameplay and make it so that the usual things don't work as t3 or t4 mission like.because those missions need to be harder so if ur having issues and those mission they are doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snydrex Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The conensus seems to be that regardless of staying or leaving, Nullies need some looking into. Honestly, at this point, I'm inclined to agree when people say something needs to be done with or about them. In my opinion, they have too much tools for one enemy to have. They provide cover, they provide long range and close range support, they debuff, distract, etc. This does make them a reasonable challenge at times, and a threat that takes priority, but it still seems a bit... I dunno, cheap. Like, they couldn't make enemy units coordinate very well, so they just made this guy to cover all the areas at once. Then again, Vivergate was all kinds of nasty. I definitely don't know the entire gist of it, so I won't jump to conclusions here. Regardless, yeah, I think they need a tweak or five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) no I like them I am not sure why people cannot adapt to the situation is It the lack of sentinel....?because those guys help..it make me sad to see an enemy that makes you change the way you fight and that can make you panic and is hard I mean that's a pretty cool enemy..I mean people already nerfed the manic and now those things are a joke. Edited December 21, 2015 by Leavith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lackrose Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Or change nullifier bubble to break / shrink based on damage: A bow / sniper / rocker launcher / grenade launcher would take one or 2 hits to break it. Rifles like Latron / Sybaris would take an inbetween amount, or a few more shots. Automatic guns seems fine as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snydrex Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) no I like them I am not sure why people cannot adapt to the situation is It the lack of sentinel....?because those guys help..it make me sad to see an enemy that makes you change the way you fight and that can make you panic and is hard I mean that's a pretty cool enemy..I mean people already nerfed the manic and now those things are a joke. Sometimes I wish this game had minibosses that encouraged decisive thinking. It would give the game an excuse to throw something like this at you for one of those "Oh, S#&$" moments that you and your hypothetical team would have to focus on if you didn't want to all wipe. I think part of the problem some are having is that the nullifier is a common enemy that seems to lie in the uncanny valley. It's like it wants to be that priority mob, but lacks basic principles that would cause people to react to it. For example, you don't know when or where they'll spawn, their HP is a joke, they don't have any unique warnings or sound cues besides that obnoxious shield, more then one at a time can spawn, you can stealthkill them... etc. The juggernaut comes kind of close to what I had in mind for a "game changer", but falls somewhat short of my expectations. Edited December 21, 2015 by Snydrex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Maybe a way to balance Nullies are to do away with the weird Shrinking thing it has going.It takes damage > it pops that's it. Nothing fancy like shrinking before popping Also, as many have suggested, make it weak to sniper and bow fire, or let Snipers and Bows totally penetrate the bubble and hit the Nullifier inside it. So the only thing that bubble is stopping is small fire arms and rifles, but high calibre snipers and Bows can totally pierce and kill the Nullifier inside. Another way is, borrowing idea from the Engineer from Halo Reach, the Nullifier acts as a shield unit that casts a wide Ability only barrier over all the units under it's protection. All units will be completely vulnerable to everything, yet invulnerable to abilities only. This way, Loki players can still sneak up and take down the Nullifier, while the units under the protection of the Nullifier are still immune to mass nuking.How does this sound? Edited December 21, 2015 by YasaiTsume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Maybe a way to balance Nullies are to do away with the weird Shrinking thing it has going. It takes damage > it pops that's it. Nothing fancy like shrinking before popping Also, as many have suggested, make it weak to sniper and bow fire, or let Snipers and Bows totally penetrate the bubble and hit the Nullifier inside it. So the only thing that bubble is stopping is small fire arms and rifles, but high calibre snipers and Bows can totally pierce and kill the Nullifier inside. When it's not growing up again it doesn't sound too bad Another way is, borrowing idea from the Engineer from Halo Reach, the Nullifier acts as a shield unit that casts a wide Ability only barrier over all the units under it's protection. All units will be completely vulnerable to everything, yet invulnerable to abilities only. This way, Loki players can still sneak up and take down the Nullifier, while the units under the protection of the Nullifier are still immune to mass nuking. How does this sound? Too broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thinkfasthippie2 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 No way! Combas are way worse than nullys lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Blaze- Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I love Arctic Eximus Nullifiers, i see them not often enough! /sarcasm Just reduce the number of Nullifier that spawn to the same time and overall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vali Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 2 words Comba Hyenas gg DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Too broken. Well give and take :v All the Nullifiers are designed for is anti spamming of abilities, if they did something to only counter abilities, it solves the problem right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkamiMilo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 maybe can make their bubbles duration lower so we can kill them faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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