Corrosive Projection Vs Steel Charge

[(PSN)supersocc11]

When I play high level missions I like to go melee only(atlas, excal, valkyr). I've been using steel charge and it seems to work well, but those heavy units get tough around lvl 80/90.

So my question is: for SOLO play against mainly high grineer and corrupted, would the 25% armor reduction help more than the steel charge melee dmg increase? I know that for tteams that the 4x CP is the go to, but I am talking about solo....Thank you!

[(PSN)jFresh215]

I would just run the steel charge with corrosive damage on a melee with decent status chance. That way you get the best of both worlds. 

[taiiat]

Corrosive Projection is ALWAYS better.

end of story.

 

 

using Steel Charge is a complete downgrade in basically any situation that you can procure.

[S0V3REiGN]

Except when the enemies don't actually have armor.

Edited December 24, 2015 by S0V3REiGN

[Darzk]

Corrosive Projection is ALWAYS better.

end of story.

 

using Steel Charge is a complete downgrade in basically any situation that you can procure.

 

Generally speaking, CP is always better against armor.

 

However against high amounts of armor you may wish to use attacks which ignore armor - namely counter-finishers or Bladestorm - and in that situation SC is the better option. Also when using abilities that strip armor like augmented Sonic Boom, Shruiken, and Link.

[Darzk]

Quick example; With Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike installed, +60% damage from SC works out to an increase of 18.75% damage done. If you don't install SS, SC adds 27.3% damage.

 

A level 90 Corrupted Bombard has 6572 armor, mitigating all but 4.35% of damage done. With CP installed, instead it has only 4600 armor, allowing 6.12% damage to be done. This is a damage increase of 40.7%.

 

It's not quite as extreme against enemies which you have added complementary elements for, but it's still better than SC. For example, if you were to install Radiation damage on your weapon, the Bombard would allow 15.4% of that through, increasing to 20.7% with CP, an increase of 34%.

 

Edit:

Even with lower levels and less armor CP still beats out SC, until you get to really low levels. A level 20 Bombard, for example, still gets a 28% damage increase from CP, but the lesser Grineer units will get more damage from SC. The cutoff is somewhere around 800 armor, where CP surpasses SC (without SS). It's a fairly safe statement to say: "When the armor reduction provides any benefit, it's better than any +damage aura." And that doesn't even begin to get into how CP helps ability damage and your companion's attacks while SC will not. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Darzk

[Acos]

A level 100 Bombard has something like 8,267.86 armor, giving him a damage reduction of 97.5%

If your weapon did 1,000 damage per hit ordinarily, it would be reduced to around 35 damage, and Steel Charge would increase that to 56 damage. 

On the other hand, Corrosive Projection would lower the 8,267.86 armor down to 5,647.502 armor, which is a damage reduction closer to 95% damage reduction. If your weapon did 1,000 damage per hit ordinarily, Corrosive Projection bumps that up to 50 damage. 

From this snapshot of information, it seems like Steel Charge is the way to go, but a couple things you should keep in mind is that Steel Charge is focused entirely on your melee damage only, where as Corrosive Projection affects everything by specifically lowering armor. Unless your entire team is dedicated to melee usage, you'll get more culmative damage from Corrosive Projection as you are increasing the damage of everyone. 

Corrosive Projection is also much more powerful when all Tenno are using it, with 4 Corrosive Projections removing armor entirely and making the Grineer much easier to kill. 

If you are fighting the Corpus or Infested feel free to bring whatever aura you want, but against the Grineer and their ridiculous armor scaling four Corrosive Projections is close to mandatory. 

[Darzk]

If your weapon did 1,000 damage per hit ordinarily, it would be reduced to around 35 damage, and Steel Charge would increase that to 56 damage. 

This is only the case if 1000 damage per hit is attained without using Pressure Point or Spoiled Strike. Remember SC stacks additively with those mods, creating 380% damage instead of 320%, which is not a 60% increase to the whole.

[Autongnosis]

I'm for the CP because despite what you said Darzk the problem is that for a solo run you won't probably get to the point of having enemies that won't die from a single counter finisher. And even then prpbably that extra 18% damage is not going to help you that much.

Particularly with Hysteria and Exalted Blade. Atlas doesn't have access to easy finishers so i'm not entirely sure he can go as high.

Also at that point for that kind of things you're better off slotting something like Radiant Finish or Savage Silence and keeping CP for a general damage boost.

Steel Charge has imho just one merit: you don't need to swap auras for when you're fighting Infested or Corpus.

EDIT: oh, and Ash. For Ash the +60% damage of Steel Charge is much better since:

- it's a pure multiplier since BS does not scale off melee mods

- CP is useless due to Teleport and BS doing Finishers

Edited December 24, 2015 by Autongnosis

[Acos]

This is only the case if 1000 damage per hit is attained without using Pressure Point or Spoiled Strike. Remember SC stacks additively with those mods, creating 380% damage instead of 320%, which is not a 60% increase to the whole.

 

That's a good point to keep in perspective. Essentially: 

1 damage * 3.2 = 3.2 damage 

1 damage * 3.8 = 3.8 damage

3.2 damage * 1.6 = 5.12 damage

The damage bonus to Steel Charge isn't 60% of your final damage, it takes place at the same time as things like Pressure Point or Spoiled Strike. It modifies the base damage, and then your elemental mods are percentages of that damage. My own example might accidently make it look more powerful than it should. 

*As someone who plays Ash extensively, I'd still probably encourage you to stick to Corrosive Projection over Steel Charge, at least while you're on a team. While Steel Charge is good specifically for Bladestorm, Corrosive Projection will make your entire team relevant, meaning that you'll do greater damage together as a cohesive unit rather than having to rely on Bladestorm for all of your damage. Your composition may vary, use your best judgement. 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Acos

[Rydian]

A level 108 Heavy Gunner takes 3.45% damage.
With 1 Corrosive Projection, 4.85% damage.
With 2 Corrosive Projections, 8.19% damage.
With 3 Corrosive Projections, 26.30% damage.
With 4 Corrosive Projections, 100% damage.

 

(Armor scaling be dumb, yo.)

[Darzk]

I think it's safe to say CP is always better than SC when you're on a team, especially a pug, because it's not likely all your teammates will be using melee exclusively. Hell, I think I'd even prefer CP over SC for Infested when in a group (Swarm Mutalist Moa's add significant armor to Infested units).

[taiiat]

However against high amounts of armor you may wish to use attacks which ignore armor - namely counter-finishers or Bladestorm - and in that situation SC is the better option. Also when using abilities that strip armor like augmented Sonic Boom, Shruiken, and Link.

things like Slash Status are based on the... base Damage volume of that amount. while Steel Charge might affect that due to it's type of calculating, i don't off the top of my head know it's exact location of calculating.

 

so it may increase the size of the Slash DoT's from say, Bladestorm - but i have a hard time justifying that because Corrosive Projection is still MILES better for every single second you're not in Bladestorm even if Steel Charge helps the Slash DoT more.

infact - the upfront Damage of Bladestorm is way higher than the Slash DoT - i wouldn't be surprised if Corrosive Projection was still better in practicality of dealing a lot more Damage than the Slash DoT does even in a few seconds of DoT afterward tallied up.

[Autongnosis]

But taiiat Bladestorm's upfront damage is Finisher, it doesn't give rat &#! about armour.

And the Slash ticks 7 tomes for 35% of ase damage totaling at 245% of base damage actually.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Autongnosis

[Darzk]

infact - the upfront Damage of Bladestorm is way higher than the Slash DoT - i wouldn't be surprised if Corrosive Projection was still better in practicality of dealing a lot more Damage than the Slash DoT does even in a few seconds of DoT afterward tallied up.

Bladestorm deals finisher damage (on the upfront and the DoT) so CP has no effect. Meanwhile, SC *does* affect Bladestorm's upfront damage and the DoT, making it much better. And because the other +damage mods do not effect BS, SC adds the full 60% damage. With ~200% power strength, SC is worth an additional +120% Power Strength when calculating Bladestorm damage. It's... considerable.

[Autongnosis]

Bladestorm deals finisher damage (on the upfront and the DoT) so CP has no effect. Meanwhile, SC *does* affect Bladestorm's upfront damage and the DoT, making it much better. And because the other +damage mods do not effect BS, SC adds the full 60% damage. With ~200% power strength, SC is worth an additional +120% Power Strength when calculating Bladestorm damage. It's... considerable.

Also SC on Ash allows you to build at a lower Strenght leaving room for other options like a Rising Storm duration based build.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

Dang it guys. All great info but I'm even more confused. Each post makes sense but it's still not clear to me. I've been running SC and then equipping corrosive on weapon and it works well, but heavies still take a long time to kill. I think that either way it just gets to the point where armor scales just too high for solo players to overcome by themselves (unless you radial blind/finish). I guess I'll just get CP and experiment myself...thanks for the info yall!

[taiiat]

Bladestorm deals finisher damage (on the upfront and the DoT) so CP has no effect.

i'm completely sure it's supposed to be that way - but one of my usual suspects who's usage of Ash rivals my usage of Saryn - is very confident that the upfront was (perhaps unintentionally) changed to Slash Damage at some point.

his case being highly Armored Enemies (yes ofc no Healers or Et Cetera around) taking very, very poor Damage from up front but the DoT working as expected.

 

i do not recall a Changelog stating that being fixed, so i don't have any reason to think it has been.

if it has been, which i would hope so as it was around for a good while, then by all means.

i'd still say Corrosive Projection simply because Corrosive Projection is a lot more useful for every second you're not in Bladestorm. as an Ash that's always in Bladestorm isn't that useful to the Team/Mission.

 

Dang it guys. All great info but I'm even more confused.

even if you still use Corrosive Damage on an Enemy that would have Ferrite Armor, if you removed all of their Armor, you'd still be doing more Damage than if they still had their Armor.

 

out of principle, assume Corrosive Projection is better. the things that Steel Charge would be better for, are very far and few between.

[NocturneOfSolace]

When I play high level missions I like to go melee only(atlas, excal, valkyr). I've been using steel charge and it seems to work well, but those heavy units get tough around lvl 80/90.

So my question is: for SOLO play against mainly high grineer and corrupted, would the 25% armor reduction help more than the steel charge melee dmg increase? I know that for tteams that the 4x CP is the go to, but I am talking about solo....Thank you!

Corrosive isn't all that useful if it's just you, if you have a team full of guy's with it, then yes it trumps steel charge

It is also dependent on other factors, like if you're Valkyr or Ash, Ash definitely can use the boost from Charge, as his bladestorm ignores armor anyways

[(PSN)supersocc11]

Reviving this topic because I'm still not sure what to pick...let's just go with atlas and his landslide skill. When SOLO facing a lvl 100 heavy gunner or bombard, will I do more damage with corrosive projection or steel charge? I have both pressure point and spoiled strike equipped if that makes a difference....thanks!!!

[IceColdHawk]

Reviving this topic because I'm still not sure what to pick...let's just go with atlas and his landslide skill. When SOLO facing a lvl 100 heavy gunner or bombard, will I do more damage with corrosive projection or steel charge? I have both pressure point and spoiled strike equipped if that makes a difference....thanks!!!

Pick steel charge. Unless you're playing with a team full of corrosive projection. And steel charge only because it works so awesome with atlas.

[Autongnosis]

It does.

Corrosive Projection wins by a pretty significant margin.

Consider that once you have Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge is only an increase of total damage of 18.75%. Corrosive Projection (assuming the HG has around 90% DR, it will actually have some more because the 90% cutoff is around lvl 80 but bear with me) is a +25% increase in damage if the target has 3k armour.

[ashrah]

up to lvl 100 u can use what ever u wish but for grineers without cp is very bad idea....

[IceColdHawk]

It does.

Corrosive Projection wins by a pretty significant margin.

Consider that once you have Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge is only an increase of total damage of 18.75%. Corrosive Projection (assuming the HG has around 90% DR, it will actually have some more because the 90% cutoff is around lvl 80 but bear with me) is a +25% increase in damage if the target has 3k armour.

Or that. Well, it doesn't really matter that much. Take whatever you want in random games and take CP when playing with a full CP team.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

It does.

Corrosive Projection wins by a pretty significant margin.

Consider that once you have Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge is only an increase of total damage of 18.75%. Corrosive Projection (assuming the HG has around 90% DR, it will actually have some more because the 90% cutoff is around lvl 80 but bear with me) is a +25% increase in damage if the target has 3k armour.

this applies to just one CP being used correct? So many people can't understand that I'm just asking for solo advice!