Naramon's Shadow Step Is Overpowered

[Shin]

-snip

I've sait all i can say about the topic but you are dead set on Shadowstep being overpowered. It just gives variation and anyone who can survive with that botheration can survive with anything else. I've seen people topping 60 min t4 survival without using a single ability simply because they can.

 

 

Ash was inroduce as a offensive stealth alternative to loki i Don't care personaly about your ash build.

And Volt was introduced as an " Alternate gun play" warframe but he is not. All he's doing is speeding up people and occasionally casting an defensive wall that got nerfed and lost its magic long time ago. Ash is a fast and tanky Offensive frame despite of your belief. He happens to have an ability that Staggers the enemies around and can make the allies stealthed with augment and suddenly he's a stealth frame. He is not. This has been talked over and over and over again with people agreeing on this.

 

And you not caring about my Ash build doesnt make my build irrelevant. The simple fact that you can build him without butchering a single one of his abilities show that he can. 

 

 

On that note  just whack a mob  crit run to downed ally whack another mob crit re stealth bladestorm a few more time or spam blade waves both  will all do the same without haveing to worry about a cast animation like the long one radial blind and smoke screen both have or wasting a mod slot on natural talent.

Except you dont have to do any of it nor he needs a Natural Talent. If you are unable to play without Natural talent to cast your abilities faster maybe you should step your game up instead of deciding on " Yep this cant be done without this ". Shadow step needs a crit and also you need to wait to recover from that slash animation. The frames you count doesnt need another thing. I doubt you ever played with Excalibur to see it for yourself at this point.

 

Excal doesnt need to be stealthed to survive, Ash doesnt need to be stealthed to survive and hell Not even Loki needs to be invisible to survive. 

 

Anyone who has access to bullet jump can survive, anything else just adds variety and ways of dealing with enemies.

 

These are just your baseless assumptions.

[styxonfire]

I've sait all i can say about the topic but you are dead set on Shadowstep being overpowered. It just gives variation and anyone who can survive with that botheration can survive with anything else. I've seen people topping 60 min t4 survival without using a single ability simply because they can.

Then tell me, what frame did they use? What weapons did they use? Did they solo camp in the sewers or were they atleast making an effort to move around?

[Sakatchi]

-I still don't understand-

Lets look at some of the other invisibility effects shall we?

 

Ash has a 8 second smoke bomb, which is an invisibility move, can be boosted to 22 seconds. But this is totally find and not overpowered.

Loki has a 15 second invisibility, which can be boosted to 33 seconds. But who cares? Totally fine.

Ivara has a 12 second aoe cloak arrow, that can hide her whole squad, that can be boosted to 20+ seconds. Nothing wrong here.

 

Huras and shades offer an invisibility that can last for upwards of 120 seconds if the user stays still, and some skills don't even break this invisibility, but that's completely fine.

Then there's Arcane trickerys, that start out at a 2.5% chance to go invisible for 5 seconds, to a 10% chance to go invisible for 20 seconds, that can't be dispelled or nullified. Nothing to see here.

 

But a 10 second cloak, that requires you to be in mele range and crit, with a 3min cool down, that costs hundreds of thousands of focus?

Overpowered beyond words.

 

I mean, who even thought it was a good idea to offer a balance to those that have the apparently large advantage of being invisible by making it accessible to others? No, it needs to remain unbalanced so we can *@##$ about it and make nerf topics.

[Shin]

Then tell me, what frame did they use? What weapons did they use? Did they solo camp in the sewers or were they atleast making an effort to move around?

One of them Used Ember prime in t4 survival. He never used his melee weapon and his secondary was Furis with that augment. Main weapon he used was Hek. It was a 1 hour T4 survival. The other used Ash and his weapon has Ignis with viral procs. I cant remember what Ash one did but Ember was constantly on move. 

 

Frame at this point doesnt matter to be honest. The fact that you can do it without using abilities is a fact

[DarkestAbyss]

How about we actually make Focus useful for veteran players instead of it being just another nigh-useless gimmick to grind?

 

For the last 2 years, I've been living in belief that Focus was supposed to be the ultimate overpower mode for players, instead, it's been designed for newbies.

I agree with that, i remember they said something about similar to like dragon ball Z super sayian, or better yet it would be similar to vindictus dark knight/paladin transformation. You become op once in that mission so you have to choose when to use that opness. and yet you see cc on activation dafuq? wheres my bald frames groing yellow spiky hair YO

[LurkenLurker]

I've sait all i can say about the topic but you are dead set on Shadowstep being overpowered. It just gives variation and anyone who can survive with that botheration can survive with anything else. I've seen people topping 60 min t4 survival without using a single ability simply because they can.

 

 

And Volt was introduced as an " Alternate gun play" warframe but he is not. All he's doing is speeding up people and occasionally casting an defensive wall that got nerfed and lost its magic long time ago. Ash is a fast and tanky Offensive frame despite of your belief. He happens to have an ability that Staggers the enemies around and can make the allies stealthed with augment and suddenly he's a stealth frame. He is not. This has been talked over and over and over again with people agreeing on this.

 

And you not caring about my Ash build doesnt make my build irrelevant. The simple fact that you can build him without butchering a single one of his abilities show that he can. 

 

 

Except you dont have to do any of it nor he needs a Natural Talent. If you are unable to play without Natural talent to cast your abilities faster maybe you should step your game up instead of deciding on " Yep this cant be done without this ". Shadow step needs a crit and also you need to wait to recover from that slash animation. The frames you count doesnt need another thing. I doubt you ever played with Excalibur to see it for yourself at this point.

 

Excal doesnt need to be stealthed to survive, Ash doesnt need to be stealthed to survive and hell Not even Loki needs to be invisible to survive. 

 

Anyone who has access to bullet jump can survive, anything else just adds variety and ways of dealing with enemies.

 

These are just your baseless assumptions.

First off i  do play with  ash excalibur loki ect now link me a vid of any of them going a hour in a t4 surivle without using a single ability and solo because bullet jump aside you still have to both kill mobs as well as trigger life support to do it means you will be on the ground at some point.

[Tatersail]

Great videos, really showcases the strengths of this focus tree

 

I personally think Naramon is fine, Focus is supposed to be "endgame" and it is melee only.

Its nice to see melee get some attention.

 

Its balanced around one mode of play, You can't stop an rez people because you loose the cloak when you stop getting melee crits, you cant use powerful Ranged weapons to kill high health enemies... because again you loose the buff when you stop bashing things.  A few times you loose stealth running about and using life support.

 

Its also sadly noticeable how slow your kill rate is with poor melee :(

 

 

Some people feel 4 energy regen is far more Overpowered and in some ways as somebody who uses lots of caster frames, I agree.

 

 

I think This tree is fine, its supposed to be a strong endgame melee system only available to players who farm focus once they reach 30.

Synergy with Excal EB and melee-centric frames is another issue.

I use shadow step with Excal and its simply wrong.

Other trees should be buffed, currently people see Shadow step or energy as the only real choices.    12% armor is just loo low.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Tatersail

[Shin]

The fact that I can do that with nothing but melee weapon and a Hydroid for 1 hour and essentially be invincible for around 90-95% while im straight up right in their face whacking the crap out of them makes Naramon's Shadow Step in its current state overpowered.

Which is why i said i've said all i can. Because at this point i keep repeating myself. Aside from abilities, Shadow step gives another way to do that. It doesnt make it OP just increases our ways of Dealing with mobs.

 

 

First off i  do play with  ash excalibur loki ect now link me a vid of any of them going a hour in a t4 surivle without using a single ability and solo because bullet jump aside you still have to both kill mobs as well as trigger life support to do it means you will be on the ground at some point.

First off try to type what you are trying to say with some dots and spacings because it started to annoy to a point to ignore what you are typing. Seriously its important.

 

Secondly, You dont sound like you're playing with Ash, Excalibur or loki because you are saying they need Natural Talent. They dont. Anyone playing with those said frames knows they dont, anyone saying they need it is a liar because there exists a ton of other mods that can be used instead of Natural Talent. 

 

NT is only useful on frames like Trin, Mirage and Nekros. No other frame needs NT to do their thing. 

 

Third. I could upload a video of me doing that with any frame you want me to but unfortunately i cant record games with my computer.

 

That being said try doing it yourself. You will find that you can easily pull that out with the right gear. You can use a Tonkor or Tigris, Ignis, Opticor, Quanta Vandal, Torid or basically any weapon that you think will be useful on high waves with you to get rif of huge chunks of enemies in a single go.

[LurkenLurker]

Lets look at some of the other invisibility effects shall we?

 

Ash has a 8 second smoke bomb, which is an invisibility move, can be boosted to 22 seconds. But this is totally find and not overpowered.

Loki has a 15 second invisibility, which can be boosted to 33 seconds. But who cares? Totally fine.

Ivara has a 12 second aoe cloak arrow, that can hide her whole squad, that can be boosted to 20+ seconds. Nothing wrong here.

 

Huras and shades offer an invisibility that can last for upwards of 120 seconds if the user stays still, and some skills don't even break this invisibility, but that's completely fine.

Then there's Arcane trickerys, that start out at a 2.5% chance to go invisible for 5 seconds, to a 10% chance to go invisible for 20 seconds, that can't be dispelled or nullified. Nothing to see here.

 

But a 10 second cloak, that requires you to be in mele range and crit, with a 3min cool down, that costs hundreds of thousands of focus?

Overpowered beyond words.

 

I mean, who even thought it was a good idea to offer a balance to those that have the apparently large advantage of being invisible by making it accessible to others? No, it needs to remain unbalanced so we can *@##$ about it and make nerf topics.

All a persone has to do is use the active skill ONCE ONCE ONCE and the passive witch is shadow step is active for the rest of the mission even while the active is on cd. Now again this passive can be used by all frames. But certain frames can be put on a all new high with this form of easy stealth ash my fave frame is one of them this passive alone complealy kills any duration build ash would mod for in fact i can use every power stregth mod on him and not give two shakes or add other utility. All you have to do is use a high crit melee weapon tbh not even that just have arcane avenger cuase i use the lowly lacera for its insane range combine all this with trickery and you have stealth for days with no drawback. Because shadow steps stealth is not effected by duration and has no set CD to prevent back to back procs.

[styxonfire]

All a persone has to do is use the active skill ONCE ONCE ONCE and the passive witch is shadow step is active for the rest of the mission even while the active is on cd. Now again this passive can be used by all frames. But certain frames can be put on a all new high with this form of easy stealth ash my fave frame is one of them this passive alone complealy kills any duration build ash would mod for in fact i can use every power stregth mod on him and not give two shakes or add other utility. All you have to do is use a high crit melee weapon tbh not even that just have arcane avenger cuase i use the lowly lacera for its insane range combine all this with trickery and you have stealth for days with no drawback. Because shadow steps stealth is not effected by duration and has no set CD to prevent back to back procs.

EXACTLY! 

[LurkenLurker]

Which is why i said i've said all i can. Because at this point i keep repeating myself. Aside from abilities, Shadow step gives another way to do that. It doesnt make it OP just increases our ways of Dealing with mobs.

 

 

First off try to type what you are trying to say with some dots and spacings because it started to annoy to a point to ignore what you are typing. Seriously its important.

 

Secondly, You dont sound like you're playing with Ash, Excalibur or loki because you are saying they need Natural Talent. They dont. Anyone playing with those said frames knows they dont, anyone saying they need it is a liar because there exists a ton of other mods that can be used instead of Natural Talent. 

 

NT is only useful on frames like Trin, Mirage and Nekros. No other frame needs NT to do their thing. 

 

Third. I could upload a video of me doing that with any frame you want me to but unfortunately i cant record games with my computer.

 

That being said try doing it yourself. You will find that you can easily pull that out with the right gear. You can use a Tonkor or Tigris, Ignis, Opticor, Quanta Vandal, Torid or basically any weapon that you think will be useful on high waves with you to get rif of huge chunks of enemies in a single go.

I am using a ps4 controller to type so sorry if the grammar is not pin point. Secondly i never said any of them need NT i just added that thous skills have long cast time and they do i mite add and stopping to cast them in a hectic t4 survival could be fatal but dont get your lil mind wrapped around the NT comment all i was trying to say is that this single passive cuts out the need for you to stop and waste time at all or open your self up to attack by just keeping up your assault. This passive also frees up 3 mod slots on ash he can run full ranks of all power streagth mods with no drawback. All he needs is primed flow and 35% PE and you have ash with as much offensive passive defense as a stealth based loki. Combine that with avenger/trickery 100% status lacera with a berserker build and boom cheesmode made even easier.

Edited December 29, 2015 by LurkenLurker

[Rhaenxys]

I just dont get why anyone would say shadow step makes invisible frames redundant...

 

Shadow step forces you to go melee only if you want to maintain the invisibility, invisibility frames can do whatever they want, AoE weapons like synoid gammacor, tonkor or secura penta are still superior with invisibility than shadow step + abilities.

 

It helps squishy frames to survive but they are forced into melee range if they want that extra survivability and you have the risk of getting damaged by crossfire or any AoE attack, shadow step changes nothing.

[LurkenLurker]

You can also use a orthos with a primed reach mode whack something from a distance if your a cowardly lion.

[LurkenLurker]

Shadow step this passive has only one con and its that you need to first use use your active to turn it on. After that its sooth sailing if you love gunplay slap on a orthos with a primed reach mode and arcane avenger. And hit quick melee boom free godmode

[Enno69]

 

 

Its balanced around one mode of play, You can't stop an rez people because you loose the cloak when you stop getting melee crits, you cant use powerful Ranged weapons to kill high health enemies... because again you loose the buff when you stop bashing things.  A few times you loose stealth running about and using life support.

 

Its also sadly noticeable how slow your kill rate is with poor melee :(

 

This is it, OP. What you have been doing was using a very specific way of running the mission just to prove a point. Realistically, no one is going to spend an hour in survival whacking enemies, and playing normally will prevent you from being constantly invisible.

 

Also, other people were right, we already have several abilities that are borderline OP. Do you want to complain about Exalted blade, Hysteria, Radial disarm, Snow globe, which can, depending on the situation, provide near or total invincibility if used properly ?

Or, if we stay in the theme of cloaking, will you scream about how Ivara's Cloaking arrows are OP, as they are active from the start of the mission, can make every teammate invisible for more than 20 seconds, and without the need for anyone to melee ?

 

But there is another thing to keep in mind that no one here seems to have mentionned : if Shadow Step is too powerful for you, you don't have to use it. Nobody is forcing you to, you are the one setting your own challenge. From this point, what do you care if some teammates wants to make things easier for them with this power, if they enjoy it ? It won't affect you.

[styxonfire]

This is it, OP. What you have been doing was using a very specific way of running the mission just to prove a point. Realistically, no one is going to spend an hour in survival whacking enemies, and playing normally will prevent you from being constantly invisible.

 

Also, other people were right, we already have several abilities that are borderline OP. Do you want to complain about Exalted blade, Hysteria, Radial disarm, Snow globe, which can, depending on the situation, provide near or total invincibility if used properly ?

Or, if we stay in the theme of cloaking, will you scream about how Ivara's Cloaking arrows are OP, as they are active from the start of the mission, can make every teammate invisible for more than 20 seconds, and without the need for anyone to melee ?

 

But there is another thing to keep in mind that no one here seems to have mentionned : if Shadow Step is too powerful for you, you don't have to use it. Nobody is forcing you to, you are the one setting your own challenge. From this point, what do you care if some teammates wants to make things easier for them with this power, if they enjoy it ? It won't affect you.

You know, its starting to get annoying when someone pulls up the "you don't have to use it" card. Wanna know why? Just because I don't have to use it, doesn't mean everybody else won't. I'm pretty sure there is a CRAPTON of Naramon users out there already, abusing the hell out of it in any and every mission they want, thus making the game way easier than it already is.

What's 4 energy per second compared to an ability that you don't have to cast over and over again and makes you completely invisible?

If anything, the last thing I wanna see is a game that making steps on spoon-feeding players at this kind of excess, which gives them the option to be gods and making an already easy end-game content even easier.

[LurkenLurker]

This is it, OP. What you have been doing was using a very specific way of running the mission just to prove a point. Realistically, no one is going to spend an hour in survival whacking enemies, and playing normally will prevent you from being constantly invisible.

 

Also, other people were right, we already have several abilities that are borderline OP. Do you want to complain about Exalted blade, Hysteria, Radial disarm, Snow globe, which can, depending on the situation, provide near or total invincibility if used properly ?

Or, if we stay in the theme of cloaking, will you scream about how Ivara's Cloaking arrows are OP, as they are active from the start of the mission, can make every teammate invisible for more than 20 seconds, and without the need for anyone to melee ?

 

But there is another thing to keep in mind that no one here seems to have mentionned : if Shadow Step is too powerful for you, you don't have to use it. Nobody is forcing you to, you are the one setting your own challenge. From this point, what do you care if some teammates wants to make things easier for them with this power, if they enjoy it ? It won't affect you.

You don't have to break any way you play to use it quicke melee works just fine any way for what this passive dose on crit will just reinforce the press 4 to win design on certain frames take excalibur EB for example blade waves crit frequently just  have a property moded melee weapon and that alone can get him throgh a t4 hour long survival now blade waves also get bonuses from stealth. This passive turns him into a blade wave god the and waves from stealth can still crit and rack up dmg also.

[Qynchou]

this is the mentality problem. THERE'S NO EFFIN INVISIBILITY FRAME! all frames have 4 abilities, just couse other frames can turn invisible throught external means doesn't mean that frames with invisibility got weaker, loki is still stronger becouse he can use other focuses.

But hes not better, the key point to loki is the bonus damage during invisibility which this focus does even better since its pretty much permanent, no energy cost required.

 

Lokis main skill is invisibility and every single frame in the game can have that with no energy cost.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Hydroid's already level 100 viable, provided you play him as the kiting ranged CC his kit was and is clearly intended to be (it's not a bug his 2 has invulnerability and deposits enemies well behind him most of the time). -_-

 

The fact that any old melee weapon with a modicum of crit can let him sit in the fray the fray and effectively be Loki but with different CC and mobility powers is rather concerning, though. Do Scrambas/Combas turn off the invisibility with the right helm the way they do normally Tenno powers (was rather surprising to wander close to one in today's Infested Exterminate sortie and suddenly have all my Ancient Healer shadows die)? I can't view the video, but I'd wager Nullifier fields cancel the invisibility as well. The Grineer will be getting an anti-invisibility unit in the near(-ish) future. I don't think Infested have any particular counter to Tenno powers... though maybe something through Disruptor Ancient has that capability? 

 

[Edit]

 

Regardless, it is the invisibility first that's so strong. Ask any Loki player how much it matters as levels climb. Even with the changes so enemies react to alarming weapons when you're invisible, the danger you're in is pretty negligible, and if you're using a silent weapon, you're only at risk of falling prey to a folly of your own making (don't stand near Scorches in multiplayer).

Edited December 29, 2015 by TheGrimCorsair

[(PSN)IsanjiYoo]

I find 5 second being to less.. And foolish enough though it worked as an aura...

is it op.. yeah.. is it fun.. ohh yeah.

I know people are trying soooo hard to search for balance, the fact is, there is none, not unless we only get one weapon and one frame..

I must say I play this game for fun, and yeah I find being OP in pve situations fun and relaxing... What if I need challenge? I switch my Tonkor out with my Daykui(spelled right?), and troll with that.

10 sec might be too much, but I was more concerned about the long CD on focus ability, and the increasing CD when trying to make them better..

So in the end, I kinda agree with you, but want it to stay cause I find it fun. If you find it OP, then throw away you semi-OCD and go something else.. The "I have to run the meta" mentality or "If it is not the best it is not worth it" mindset, is getting out hand lately.. This is not just Warframe.. not just games.. this is the sad nature of mankind..

[LurkenLurker]

The passive also makes rhino into even more off a face roll frame shadow step iron skin a tonkore and orthos with a primed reach will make sure your in no danger you can also add shade or haruse kubrow for even more ridiculous safeguards. All were trying to say is shadow step makes any frames defense ability not needed

[Hypernaut1]

If anything, they need to nerf how fast people are able to max out their focus trees. Its less than a month and people are getting bored with it an calling for nerfs.

[Guardian_Legion]

the entire bloody point of focus is that it is supposed to be powerful. Not to mention that the grind to max out shadow step is relatively intense. And it only is usable with crit based melee. So what I'm trying to express in as effective way as possible is.... HELL NO

Edited December 29, 2015 by Legionofone

[styxonfire]

Hydroid's already level 100 viable, provided you play him as the kiting ranged CC his kit was and is clearly intended to be (it's not a bug his 2 has invulnerability and deposits enemies well behind him most of the time). -_-

 

The fact that any old melee weapon with a modicum of crit can let him sit in the fray the fray and effectively be Loki but with different CC and mobility powers is rather concerning, though. Do Scrambas/Combas turn off the invisibility with the right helm the way they do normally Tenno powers (was rather surprising to wander close to one in today's Infested Exterminate sortie and suddenly have all my Ancient Healer shadows die)? I can't view the video, but I'd wager Nullifier fields cancel the invisibility as well. The Grineer will be getting an anti-invisibility unit in the near(-ish) future. I don't think Infested have any particular counter to Tenno powers... though maybe something through Disruptor Ancient has that capability? 

 

[Edit]

 

Regardless, it is the invisibility first that's so strong. Ask any Loki player how much it matters as levels climb. Even with the changes so enemies react to alarming weapons when you're invisible, the danger you're in is pretty negligible, and if you're using a silent weapon, you're only at risk of falling prey to a folly of your own making (don't stand near Scorches in multiplayer).

Nullifiers can't take out Shadow Step's invisibility

[styxonfire]

I find 5 second being to less.. And foolish enough though it worked as an aura...

is it op.. yeah.. is it fun.. ohh yeah.

I know people are trying soooo hard to search for balance, the fact is, there is none, not unless we only get one weapon and one frame..

I must say I play this game for fun, and yeah I find being OP in pve situations fun and relaxing... What if I need challenge? I switch my Tonkor out with my Daykui(spelled right?), and troll with that.

10 sec might be too much, but I was more concerned about the long CD on focus ability, and the increasing CD when trying to make them better..

So in the end, I kinda agree with you, but want it to stay cause I find it fun. If you find it OP, then throw away you semi-OCD and go something else.. The "I have to run the meta" mentality or "If it is not the best it is not worth it" mindset, is getting out hand lately.. This is not just Warframe.. not just games.. this is the sad nature of mankind..

Well, its kind of agreed upon that 5-7 seconds should be the max of it. I can agree to that (not sure about 7 since 8 seconds already can turn me into a god)