Dragon Nikana Is The Best Melee Weapon In Pvp

[Odik]

Can i have an answer? Why everyone mad at this guy who slashed some noobs? Its all about ''skill'' which dont even matter in this game? Its not competitive ,its not balanced (remind me a game with donate shop but here you got mods just for playing),so then why?

Why would you play PVP ...? Like you decided to try pvp in this game... Ok .. you made loadout and such . But when you enter the game and then you got crushed by this ''oldschoolveteranplaya'' with tonns of mods which making him OP as hell compared to you. 

[Nazrethim]

There is no skill in melee. Its all about spamming one combo over and over again. Look at that video.

Sure, whatever you say. Point&click, point&click.

 

 

But yes, as Ksaero said, the PvP needs a rebalance again.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Nazrethim

[Phasedragon]

Can i have an answer? Why everyone mad at this guy who slashed some noobs? Its all about ''skill'' which dont even matter in this game? Its not competitive ,its not balanced (remind me a game with donate shop but here you got mods just for playing),so then why?

Why would you play PVP ...? Like you decided to try pvp in this game... Ok .. you made loadout and such . But when you enter the game and then you got crushed by this ''oldschoolveteranplaya'' with tonns of mods which making him OP as hell compared to you. 

Because skill does matter. I can guarantee that. It's not like pve, where your power comes from how many mods you have which comes from your mindless time-sinking against mindless hordes of AI. While there are some weapons which require mods like lie in wait, and generally mods help, they aren't completely required. They're more for utility or preference than anything else. Just cause someone has more mods in pvp doesn't mean he's going to be straight up more powerful or better, just has access to a wider variety. In that case, it is balanced. However there are a few specific cases which pop up now and then which were either unintended or overlooked.

 

As for "why play pvp?", because it's fun. The mobility, the style, everything comes together to be one of the best pvp experiences I've had. I run into issues with lag and choppiness, and of course we're all waiting for the day of dedicated servers, but until then it's still one of the most mobile and dynamic pvp I've ever played, despite it's flaws.

Edited December 31, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[-InV-igo95862]

Sure, whatever you say. Point&click, point&click.

 

Pointing actually takes a lot skill and practice then pressing one button at some tempo.

[Phasedragon]

Melee is just a crutch for players who can't aim. There, I said it. It's meant for cutting down hordes of AI, not any semblance of PVP. It only works against new players who can't move, and getting good scores against those kinds of players is nothing to be proud about. Yes, naz, I'm talking to you. Stop carrying yourself like some pro melee master, you don't come close, you've just never fought real players.

 

That being said, I've looked at some of ksaero's older videos. Quite impressive with braton prime, albeit 4 months old. I'm very excited to fight him, as It's hard to find good players in other regions due to language barriers and lag issues. I can only hope that he doesn't main melee now, and only did that video to mess around. Can't wait for that match of yours, I'm ingame.

Edited December 31, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[_BUSHIDO_]

I think everyone needs to calm down.

Melee is in the game, period.

And talking about pvp, is in the worst spot ever:

You need to be grounded, without the possibility tu use your gun And is only available while channeling so your not going to relay too much on abilities.

Guiding Light is in a good place, of course but is far from being OP.

Jat kitagg hitting People mid air was OP.

Stunlock people with kogake was OP.

If You are out of The range, You are safe. If you have a high dps damage, due to The enemy following a straight line while using that combo, you are going to Kill him.

Il you are in The air you are safe.

Everyone knows how much is a "killingspree party" when you jump in a room full of newbies spamming their Melee.

And be honest, It offers counterplay and is a good weapon , not OP. Only effective in close quarter. Btw, that video... everyone would have stomp the score with every frame or weapon and you Can say this when you see that dude spamming Jat kitagg mindless.

When you play with Pros, melee is the last thing you are going to use to Kill someone

[Nazrethim]

Pointing actually takes a lot skill and practice then pressing one button at some tempo.

We are talking multiple tempos (we have two attack speed mods and those affect the timing like you wouldn't know, specially on fast weapons)

And knowing how to point&click correctly isn't different from learnig how to use combos effectively. For example, you have seen people killing with Guiding Light, oh but you don't know you have to aim and measure the distance properly, and against oponents who spend 90% of their time airborne you need to predict where they will land and aim accordingly.

Also, I'm not gonna argue with whatever logic you come up later, but know that if you say "melee doesn't require skill" or something similar, my only answers will be point&click. That's an apropiate response to ignorance or denial on the part of zealous gunplayers.

[kelthehunter]

melee need skills but dragon nikaga with stance do not need skill at all.

[Nazrethim]

Melee is just a crutch for players who can't aim.  Yes, naz, I'm talking to you. Stop carrying yourself like some pro melee master, you don't come close, you've just never fought real players.

-Melee is an option like a primary or secondary, thus it should be on par with gunplay, that is balance, this is Warframe, not Call of warfare: medal of duty

 

I've never EVER said I was a pro melee master, because I haven't mastered all weapons yet. I'm never proud of killing new players, I actually give them advice and focus on the most challenging players on every match. I have fought with "real players" who could just headshot me from a mile away (not literally) who spent 90% of the time airborne, with me trying to land combos in the split seconds they were on the ground while I tried my best to dodge a million bullets (again, not literally). I'm not the best, but if you think throwing dirt over melee combat because you think gunplay is superior, you are very very far too.

[_BUSHIDO_]

Can we stop saying what is skillful And what is not, please?

Everything in the game should have his dignity; if you are using bow, assault rifle, shotgun, explosive, abilities and melee.

I hope nobody will start to put Salt in the community. I always liked this game for his gameplay and Also for his community. Please, don't ruin this with tons of salt, Name and shaming or other

[Odik]

Because skill does matter. I can guarantee that. It's not like pve, where your power comes from how many mods you have which comes from your mindless time-sinking against mindless hordes of AI. While there are some weapons which require mods like lie in wait, and generally mods help, they aren't completely required. They're more for utility or preference than anything else. Just cause someone has more mods in pvp doesn't mean he's going to be straight up more powerful or better, just has access to a wider variety. In that case, it is balanced. However there are a few specific cases which pop up now and then which were either unintended or overlooked.

 

As for "why play pvp?", because it's fun. The mobility, the style, everything comes together to be one of the best pvp experiences I've had. I run into issues with lag and choppiness, and of course we're all waiting for the day of dedicated servers, but until then it's still one of the most mobile and dynamic pvp I've ever played, despite it's flaws.

LOL , have you ever seen this mods? You completely drunk with your ''skill theory'' and cant see obvious things? Like mods which give you immunity to stagger/stuns for 8 s after being staggered/stunned not making you more powerfull or better comparet to guy who doesnt have it?*facepalm*  And other usefull mods. Cya

[Uzpian]

Can we stop saying what is skillful And what is not, please?

Too bad it can't be stopped sooner or later.

[Phasedragon]

LOL , have you ever seen this mods? You completely drunk with your ''skill theory'' and cant see obvious things? Like mods which give you immunity to stagger/stuns for 8 s after being staggered/stunned not making you more powerfull or better comparet to guy who doesnt have it?*facepalm*  And other usefull mods. Cya

 

This is way offtopic, but yeah, mods make a minor difference unless you're using the specific weapons which rely on them like snipers. Knockdown prevention is utility, and I haven't really seen mine activate even once every 5 matches. The few mods I can see which would make a difference are the elemental bullet jump mods. Against a slow moving target, rime vault can be devastating, but it's not going to be much of any use in a real fight.

[woah_dude]

i remember when i initially saw Nikana users and was wondering why i was dieing in 1 or 2 hits inside the globe with my frost, at first i thought conclave bugged out and made Aura's from main frames transfer or smtn, after some time and playing against them, i came to conclusion they are kind a annoying, especially around corners and the game being a 3rd person shooter makes it possible to see around corners without showing your frame, so maybe tone down it a bit, but melee users are not a problem for me in any of the matches i play. 

 

Also video shows a bunch of noobs on the ground who can't aim for S#&$ it seems and have zero map awareness/usage of powers, so i guess u can make a video like that with pretty much any gun almost :/ 

[(NSW)Evanz111]

Whilst I don't disagree with the power of it, surely one person being proficient with it doesn't make it the best melee weapon?

I'm fairly certain that a newbie couldn't pull this off, so I'm not as worried about it as others seem to be.

[rockscl]

Well I agree that Guiding Light combo (shown in the video) is very powerful but:

- it requires timing;

- it requires aiming;

- you are pretty vulnerable during the first two hits needed to make the dash;

- it's useless against jumping enemies.

That's why there are few players that use it. Most players who use Dragon Nikana just spam Heeding Call (the combo where you just hold block and spam E). It's effective and doesn't require any of the above.

Not to mention other melee weapons like Tipedo or Bo Prime that just can be constantly spammed to kill anyone. So I guess Guiding Light combo is pretty fair considering you need some time and skill to pull it out. But if you manage to do it, no melee fighter can match you.

 

sorry but you are a guilding light fan, you cant see how broken it is, basically every thing you are listing as a cons applies to every other melee weapon and no one has the ability to simply go ahead and oneshot without even thiking what is going on, i have tasted the guilding light spice, purely mindless spamming in the direction of the enemy gave me easy wins in FFA, i switched it to skana in order to have more participation on my melee kills, and the pause combo is not that hard to pull, and doesnt justify oneshoting anything, specially when you can prepare it outside of the fight unlike skana, and more or less every other melee pause combo, its worst than daikyu day 0

[Xaero]

sorry but you are a guilding light fan, you cant see how broken it is, basically every thing you are listing as a cons applies to every other melee weapon and no one has the ability to simply go ahead and oneshot without even thiking what is going on, i have tasted the guilding light spice, purely mindless spamming in the direction of the enemy gave me easy wins in FFA, i switched it to skana in order to have more participation on my melee kills, and the pause combo is not that hard to pull, and doesnt justify oneshoting anything, specially when you can prepare it outside of the fight unlike skana, and more or less every other melee pause combo, its worst than daikyu day 0

With other melee weps you just close the distance and mash E button to kill. Guiding Light requires you to time the third hit which is already more difficult. And in no way I'm against a reasonable nerf. Let's just not forget about a bigger picture.

Stupid mashing and one-hit kill timing are almost on the same level of brokenness. Melee itself comes as an alternative for guns but things turn out it's not. It can easily kill a newbie who walks the ground all the time but has nothing to do with a prepared jumping player. To be a real alternative, melee should gain some aerial advantage yet on the ground it shouldn't be more effective than a gun. I don't have any idea how it should be implemented. Do you?

[rockscl]

every melee weapon needs to close the gap, if you do it with Blind Justice you can aswell spam RMB combo and get any result in a reasonable time, however Iron Phoenix doesnt have anything to mindlessly spam, so mindless mashing will get you TTK around 4-5 seconds, enough to get get killed 2 times even after proccing your stagger, we are talking here about a single Combo that can win over the rest of the melee arsenal without even caring of what is the other guy doing

 

and for those guys that are good at losing the point, this is simply about balance, not about viability, of course anyone who has trained his parkour a reasonable time can dodge and kill a melee player as much as he wants

 

as for what to do with melee: for now DE should care about not allowing more oneshots in guilding light, and giving cc to air melee, give us a mod for "on directional melee: -damage, knockdown"

Edited December 31, 2015 by rockscl

[Nazrethim]

Fail, Iron Phoenix has only 2 combos, the e-spam and the pause and the e-spam is the gap closer itself, and you just need to spam it till you reach target, then put a pause combo to kill. You may fool gunplayers into thinking Blind Justice is the alpha and omega of stances (in fact is the VERY bugged hitbox of Sylva&Aegis/Final Harbinger) butt not the actual melee players who have used it. While it's true the damage was buffed with U18 (DE made some seriously bad choices regarding melee tbh) D Nikana has been doing this since day 1 in Conclave and no one complained, mostly because melee wasn't considered viable, now it is, not only with BJ, but with all weapons. I personally would like melee be reverted back to pre-u18 (stances multipliers, no stagger on hit all that) but leaving the "quickmelee and e-spam deal jack damage" + some changes (grant multipliers to all stances, gap closer to all stances, replaced back+e and forward+e with other combinations, increased melee survivability vs guns both passively and improving blocking and better aerial power). What melee players actually requested, not buggy staggers and a useless charge attacks. Also, removal of slam knockdowns from all quickslams.

 

Also, solution to air melee:

A) aerial combo and uppercut combo (with knockdown)

or

B) 5-6m softargeting autolock (like MM or archmelee) for aerial melee (melee weapon equiped) with knockdown.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Nazrethim

[rockscl]

guilding light is not balanced, period, where comes this hyperbole of alpha and omega of stances

 

and who would use Wings and Beak as a gap closer, even if you managed to do it your TTK would remain around 4-5 seconds unlike Heeding call picturing how spamming a manually gap closed melee applies to Blind Justice too, thus being a general "pro" factor as in "will give some result", just like everything else that was listed as a particular Cons to BJ but actually is a general thing 

 

 

With other melee weps you just close the distance and mash E button to kill. 

 

resume: you can do the same with BJ

Edited December 31, 2015 by rockscl

[Marrt]

I have an Idea for the OP! Try it FIRST, THEN start a thread about it

 

I occasionally meet -Ksaero- in pvp, and he is really skilled and could have performed even better with a braton prime. I just tried guiding light for 2 rounds. it is good, but it is really hard to pull off, it is NOT like Slash Dash - you have to aim. Also, looking at the footage those guys are sitting ducks. So in short, this is why it is NOT op:

 

-needs two attacks while being grounded, makes you vulnerable and you cannot chase targets because of that

-needs to be channeled for dealing enough damage

-needs to be aimed

-needs your melee out 

 

So my challenge: Show a Video where you show how OP it is, otherwise close thread

 

That being said, -Ksaero-, what do you think of the Ogrant Helmet for excalibur?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Marrt

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Sure, whatever you say. Point&click, point&click.

But yes, as Ksaero said, the PvP needs a rebalance again.

If you are mocking the essence of a shooter game, why are you playing as shooter game? Chilvary is a thing

[Nighttide77]

There is no skill in melee. Its all about spamming one combo over and over again. Look at that video.

 

>_> There is skill in melee.  The video just gives an example of something that needs work.  Including the work needed on the skill of the newbies he wrecked.

[Marrt]

Again: Pull it off yourself, then you can argue about OPness.

 

I e.g. say Kestrel is OP, i use it often.

[Xaero]

I have an Idea for the OP! Try it FIRST, THEN start a thread about it

 

I occasionally meet -Ksaero- in pvp, and he is really skilled and could have performed even better with a braton prime. I just tried guiding light for 2 rounds. it is good, but it is really hard to pull off, it is NOT like Slash Dash - you have to aim. Also, looking at the footage those guys are sitting ducks. So in short, this is why it is NOT op:

 

-needs two attacks while being grounded, makes you vulnerable and you cannot chase targets because of that

-needs to be channeled for dealing enough damage

-needs to be aimed

-needs your melee out 

 

So my challenge: Show a Video where you show how OP it is, otherwise close thread

 

That being said, -Ksaero-, what do you think of the Ogrant Helmet for excalibur?

Used it for two days and reverted to Mordred again. Ogrant seems too big to me.