Why Are The Coolest Warframes The Weakest?

[PrVonTuckIII]

What rubbish is this? Frost? Weak? Incompatible phrasing. King of Defence/Interception/Mobile Defence. Coolest frame as someone else said. 

 

And my fav :)

[SquirmyBurrito]

What rubbish is this? Frost? Weak? Incompatible phrasing. King of Defence/Interception/Mobile Defence. Coolest frame as someone else said. 

 

And my fav :)

 

Did you actually read the OP? He/She never called frost weak.

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

I don't get why people hate Ash ... He's awesome !!!

Loki is the master race lol

I've found over time that each warframe is very useful in there own ways ,

I can't stand limbo !

It's not that hes a bad frame ... He's just not my play style,

And that's the great thing about this game, you play how you want too , there's no wrong way

It's all in the players style

[Xgomme]

There are already a ton a frames that can act as a 'VIP killer', he isn't unique in this, he is invulnerable but not invincible. More like secondary energy siphon, Frost defends the cryopod better.

 

Hydroid is nigh-useless. The loot augment turns a lackluster ult into a slightly less lackluster ult.

 

Lots of similar spells are not equivalent. The whole Limbo set is fine imo, it combine things that are on other frames, he's an exotic frame. The one you'll put in to change the boring meta of a classic Frost/Nova/Trinity/DPS team. Equinox shine because nuke while day form... But the night form is imo exotic too. A set of spells almost from other frames, but with a different balancing.

 

Limbo can be what mentionned, but with the (imo) HUGE advantage to have his rift... Energy is free for him, he can hide himself in the rift almost all the time. For example with Frost, if an ennemy brake the bubble, and Frost is with 0 energy left... He's naked. 

But the same case won't happen with a safe Limbo player who cast Cataclysm on the pod while himself in the rift. If the cataclysm duration is over, limbo has enough energy to recast it cause he was in the rift, and he's safe without it cause HE's in the rift... So he just have to walk and recast it on the pod... 

 

And it's just an example of a situation on a defense mission based Limbo.

 

For Hydroid I'm ok he needs some tweaks, but he's not that bad. Another exotic frame imo, he can do lot of things. But they're maybe not as logical as exploding the map with a nuke x)

 

(sorry if my english is sometimes weird :P )

 

EDIT : Just thought of something, I have to try Limbo with Zenurik focus... With the energy/s passive, you can really boost the rift energy gain, and your build can change based on this !

Edited January 4, 2016 by Xgomme

[zergla]

I don't remember Frost being weak.

After all, he is the coolest warframe

I'm not sure whether to boo or laugh at that pun.

Edited January 4, 2016 by zergla

[Arenzo4]

I disagree with both of those. Some people disliking something is not a good enough reason to get rid of something that not only functions, but functions well.

Hasn't it already been sped up a great deal with the addition of clones?

 

 

Im curious, if they kept the functionality the same, you hit the button, you and some clones start jumping around the map killing things. but made it so you could actually do things while the ability is going on, like have more control over what you teleport to and kill? or other added bonuses. Would you rather keep it a cutscene?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Lots of similar spells are not equivalent. The whole Limbo set is fine imo, it combine things that are on other frames, he's an exotic frame. The one you'll put in to change the boring meta of a classic Frost/Nova/Trinity/DPS team. Equinox shine because nuke while day form... But the night form is imo exotic too. A set of spells almost from other frames, but with a different balancing.

 

Limbo can be what mentionned, but with the (imo) HUGE advantage to have his rift... Energy is free for him, he can hide himself in the rift almost all the time. For example with Frost, if an ennemy brake the bubble, and Frost is with 0 energy left... He's naked. 

But the same case won't happen with a safe Limbo player who cast Cataclysm on the pod while himself in the rift. If the cataclysm duration is over, limbo has enough energy to recast it cause he was in the rift, and he's safe without it cause HE's in the rift... So he just have to walk and recast it on the pod... 

 

And it's just an example of a situation on a defense mission based Limbo.

 

For Hydroid I'm ok he needs some tweaks, but he's not that bad. Another exotic frame imo, he can do lot of things. But they're maybe not as logical as exploding the map with a nuke x)

 

(sorry if my english is sometimes weird :P )

 

EDIT : Just thought of something, I have to try Limbo with Zenurik focus... With the energy/s passive, you can really boost the rift energy gain, and your build can change based on this !

 

Banish's functionality could have been bundled into rift walk (press while aiming at a target to cast on them, hold and it is cast on you instead). His third skill is a pretty meh damage buff and needs a rework as well. His ult isn't all that bad but desperately needs some quality of life changes (these would remove most of his trolling capabilities). Adding Limbo to your team in place of a frost doesn't make the grind less boring, it just makes it more of a hassle. Exotic doesn't mean good or worthwhile. Durian is often considered exotic and it still smells like &#!.

 

As I said, the rift's passive energy gain is comparable to a secondary energy siphon and can be replaced with energy restores or a EV Trinity. You're comparing two different frames in different scenarios in an attempt to make Limbo look better. A frost with zero energy is still a relative tank. A Limbo with no energy is dead. A careful limbo will never run out of energy, and a careful frost will never run out of energy. Be consistent with your comparisons.

Casting cataclysm on the pod means anytime enemies enter the bubble the teammates have to also enter the bubble (or be banished) in order to damage those enemies (barring ability damage). It also means that teammates who choose to stay near the pod cannot damage enemies outside the bubble unless that trick with volt's shield still works and there is a volt on the team or they use their abilities to inflict damage. Enemies that enter the bubble are not slowed or damaged as far as I know and can easily damage the pod or your team.

A frost with chilling globe can protect their teammates, the pod, and themselves while still allowing everyone to shoot out of the globe. Paired with the augment and enemies that enter the globe get frozen. Even without the augment enemies that are in the area when snow globe is cast are frozen and pushed out, if the hit something they take finisher damage. Enemies that enter after its creation are slowed.

 

Hydroid is like incredibly lackluster to the point of being bad. All his abilities do some variation of the same thing, AoE CC.

 

Im curious, if they kept the functionality the same, you hit the button, you and some clones start jumping around the map killing things. but made it so you could actually do things while the ability is going on, like have more control over what you teleport to and kill? or other added bonuses. Would you rather keep it a cutscene?

 

Most likely yes. Otherwise the overall execution length of the ability would be increased and I wouldn't be able to use it to kill that one enemy who I can't find (one enemy is stuck outside the map, get a relative idea of where it is and then lead another enemy over. Press 4 while aiming at it and hope the other enemy falls within your AoE).

[VoidNomade]

Limbo decides which enemies to fight. Against the will of his allies. And that´s his problem.

 

Make the allies able to switch planes like they want.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

I have to admit before I started this game, I had a look over all the different Warframes, tried to gauge which one I'd find most interesting and cool, and I was really happily surprised by the diversity!

 

I mean you had Ash the super assassin, you had Limbo who just sounded insane with his banishing ability and so on, oh and Hydroid sounded the boolest! Turning into water? Kraken? It all sounded awesome..

 

Yet lo and behold, I play the game, I do some research and it turns out lol, the Warframes with the LEAST interesting abilities are the most powerful? :/ (Talking Loki here, especially Loki you will not believe how much I hated his abilities/looks when I saw him first, so boring and simple to me and yet he is like a solo god in many ways, ugh)

 

But yeah meanwhile, all I can find on Hydroid and Limbo is people telling me NOT to use them and Ash...well Ash everyone just blatantly hates.

yes loki is op and very much abused and trolls other players (limbo is in here also)

 

 

many warframes are powerful it just takes time and proper mods to bring out the potential

 

though there are frames that are ..... in need of DE love and rework 

 

banshee.....came to mind first 

[SquirmyBurrito]

yes loki is op and very much abused and trolls other players (limbo is in here also)

 

 

many warframes are powerful it just takes time and proper mods to bring out the potential

 

though there are frames that are ..... in need of DE love and rework 

 

banshee.....came to mind first 

 

Banshee is actually fairly strong.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Banshee is actually fairly strong.

fairly strong yes

 

but the overall power synergy and suitability of her power tends to hit faster then most frames. 

 

unless im playing with shy's savage banshee ie im spamming 3 and 1 with augments , its very easy for her to go down if your not a sneaky type 

[(PSN)PapprikaDust]

been using loik/loki prime as starting frame

 and now some people think he's OP

 

-_______-

Edited January 4, 2016 by (PS4)PapprikaDust

[SquirmyBurrito]

been using loik/loki prime as starting frame

 and now some people think he's OP

 

-_______-

 

To be fair, he is incredibly powerful. But I disagree with calling him OP as that implies he is stronger than he should be.

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Two seconds? I remember it being less than one. Maybe it changed at some point, because Smokebomb is nowhere near as bad as I remember it being now. Fine, that's one in his favor.

 

Also, who says the purpose of Teleport isn't stealth? Ash is the "ninja frame". His theme is stealth killing, like a fictional ninja. But Teleport is like rushing up to an enemy and waving your sword in their face, aggroing everyone else while hopefully punching out one enemy. Also, I'm not "exaggerating", merely recounting my experience with the ability.

 

Oh, and: I never said Smokebomb was the most boring. I said Bladestorm was the most boring. Because it is literally the definition of Press 4 to Win. It's almost certainly the poster child for that phrase: You press 4 and things die - while preventing others from getting any kills in edgewise. No effort. No risk. Just press 4, and the game turns into a cutscene where you A) win or B) spend several seconds stabbing one enemy in the face because it just won't die. You recognize that Undertow, Absorb, Sound Quake, and Desecrate are awful, but fail to realize that Bladestorm is equally so? I don't understand what the point of the entire last part of your post was - I understand perfectly how the ability functions. That doesn't change how it's about as interactive as your average macro. It reduces most Ashes' gameplay to 44444444444444. How is that good design? Tell me.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Two seconds? I remember it being less than one. Maybe it changed at some point, because Smokebomb is nowhere near as bad as I remember it being now. Fine, that's one in his favor.

 

Also, who says the purpose of Teleport isn't stealth? Ash is the "ninja frame". His theme is stealth killing, like a fictional ninja. But Teleport is like rushing up to an enemy and waving your sword in their face, aggroing everyone else while hopefully punching out one enemy. Also, I'm not "exaggerating", merely recounting my experience with the ability.

 

Oh, and: I never said Smokebomb was the most boring. I said Bladestorm was the most boring. Because it is literally the definition of Press 4 to Win. It's almost certainly the poster child for that phrase: You press 4 and things die - while preventing others from getting any kills in edgewise. No effort. No risk. Just press 4, and the game turns into a cutscene where you A) win or B) spend several seconds stabbing one enemy in the face because it just won't die. You recognize that Undertow, Absorb, Sound Quake, and Desecrate are awful, but fail to realize that Bladestorm is equally so? I don't understand what the point of the entire last part of your post was - I understand perfectly how the ability functions. That doesn't change how it's about as interactive as your average macro. It reduces most Ashes' gameplay to 44444444444444. How is that good design? Tell me.

 

I don't think it was ever that terrible.

 

Teleport alerts the enemy, who in their right mind would think its purpose was stealth? Teleport is nothing like waving your sword in their face. It is more like a single target, one-off, version of bladestorm but with your input and melee weapon required. 

 

Clearly a mistype. The definition of press 4 to win is flawed and only ever exists in low-mid level missions where a single 4 press can, potentially, win you the game. Bladestorm does not prevent others from getting kills. It requires aim, effort ranking the frame and the mods used to make it worth bringing to higher level missions, it requires that you keep yourself stocked with energy, and it can result in you getting killed when you finish and find yourself vulnerable again (shouldn't happen, but it CAN happen). If you're playing at a level where bladestorming a single enemy isn't putting it down, you either need to rethink your team comp or stop relying on bladestorm for damage. As I demonstrated in the video, it can take down the level enemies you typically find in sorties. Your average non-bannable macro is a rapid fire macro and I fail to see what's wrong with that as it just saves you the extra clicks. Bladestorm being spammable when energy cost is no longer a factor in no way makes the initial ability bad game design. Your argument ultimately boils down to "I can spam it, many of us CHOOSE to spam it, therefore it is bad/boring game design". I could choose to spend most of my gameplay pressing spacebar. How is that good design? Tell me.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

The fact that Teleport alerts the enemy IS its issue. That's... exactly what I've been saying. What's the point of very loudly stabbing one enemy in the back? Either you weren't detected, in which case you'd want to stay that way, or you've been detected, in which case killing one enemy really isn't going to do so much to help you. For the latter case there's... smokebomb and its stealth damage bonus+stagger.

 

TL;SR, but I still don't see anything that justifies having an ability that puts the game on autorun. Don't tell me what my argument "boils down to"; the fact remains that Bladestorm is "point, press 4, stop playing the game for several seconds as enemies die without further input" and you have said absolutely nothing to justify that. Aim? Minimal. Target one enemy, wipe everything around that enemy. Effort ranking the frame and getting mods, and having to have energy? Those statements apply to literally every warframe and ability in existence, so all you're saying is "It's an ability". It resembles the kind of macro that autofarms mobs more than it does a rapid-fire button for semi-auto weapons.

 

If you don't think "press 4 to win" exists outside of low level missions, you really don't understand what the term means. Also, the mention of spacebar is a completely irrelevant false equivalency. So, in short, your defense of Bladestorm has posed nothing of substance.

[SquirmyBurrito]

The fact that Teleport alerts the enemy IS its issue. That's... exactly what I've been saying. What's the point of very loudly stabbing one enemy in the back? Either you weren't detected, in which case you'd want to stay that way, or you've been detected, in which case killing one enemy really isn't going to do so much to help you. For the latter case there's... smokebomb and its stealth damage bonus+stagger.

 

TL;SR, but I still don't see anything that justifies having an ability that puts the game on autorun. Don't tell me what my argument "boils down to"; the fact remains that Bladestorm is "point, press 4, stop playing the game for several seconds as enemies die without further input" and you have said absolutely nothing to justify that. Aim? Minimal. Target one enemy, wipe everything around that enemy. Effort ranking the frame and getting mods, and having to have energy? Those statements apply to literally every warframe and ability in existence, so all you're saying is "It's an ability". It resembles the kind of macro that autofarms mobs more than it does a rapid-fire button for semi-auto weapons.

 

If you don't think "press 4 to win" exists outside of low level missions, you really don't understand what the term means. Also, the mention of spacebar is a completely irrelevant false equivalency. So, in short, your defense of Bladestorm has posed nothing of substance.

 

The only way that is an issue is if you assume it shouldn't. Just like Shuriken doing damage is an issue if you assume it shouldn't. Also, why are you assuming that teleport is intended to be stealthy? I mean, Smoke Screen is the only ability Ash has that DOESN'T alert enemies. If an enemy survives Shuriken, it is alerted. If an enemy survives Bladestorm, it is alerted. If you weren't detected, and wish to stay that way, why teleport to them/bladestorm them/shuriken them? 

"in which case killing one enemy really isn't going to do so much to help you. " --Actually, it can. Teleport to toughest enemy, kill it with a finisher, and then proceed to kill the rest of them. Maybe even pop smoke screen if you want to radial stagger the rest of the group.

 

What does "TL;SR" stand for? Here is your justification, it kills, it does so well, it meshes well with the game, and it doesn't break anything (most of the time). In fact, the only difference between Bladestorm and an ability like Radial Javelin is bladestorm's animation lasts longer. Why shouldn't I point out how your argument can be simplified without changing the meaning? I've said plenty, it isn't my fault that you've chosen to blow it off. Having to aim at an enemy to initiate it is the same amount of effort that goes into shooting an enemy. In fact, bladestorm requires MORE effort than shooting the Ogris/Tonkor/Torid as you actually have to aim with bladestorm. The fact that they apply to every other warframe is irrelevant, that is still effort. No, it doesn't. The only difference between pressing 4 over and over again and pressing LMB over and over again is the key being repeatedly pressed.

 

No, I perfectly understands what it means. I just refuse to apply it to every case where a warframe's ult can be used to kill a group of enemies. You people choosing to misuse the phrase (like many others misuse the term phrase "pay to win") has no bearing on its meaning. If that is the conclusion you've come to after reading my post in full you need to go back to school, work on your reading comprehension, and then come back and give my post another read.

[Shad0wWatcher]

Idk about you man but the frames you say every1 hates are frames i see plenty of times and are plenty powerful to support the team.

Hell i main Ash and i never hear people tell me not to use him or that they hate him if it's invisibility the team needs then invisibility they shall receive from me. Sure he needs some tweaks but thats the case with nearly every frame in the game.

 

To each his own, Hydroid does his job quite nicely, though i don't have him but he's a good frame that just needs some tweaks. The same goes for Limbo.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

The irony's so thick I can hear Faeries choking to death.

 

There you go, "simplifying" my post into something with a completely different meaning - you must be some sort of alchemist, to boil something down into a different substance altogether - and then you tell me I should go check my reading comprehension?

 

Ah well. No point trying to reason with that kind of attitude, I suppose. Have fun with that - bye!

[Gruzelda]

Limbo is the best for non-endless/exterminate missions, rift walk and breeze through without getting hit. Combined with my Huras Kubrow, I can literally just walk into any spy vault without setting off alarms.

[(XBOX)SPQR Harbinger]

Everyone has their favorites for various reasons, but in general there don't seem to be any real weak frames. All of them have their uses. Some are very difficult to play properly, and some are very easy. It really just boils down to how you use them, and where. For example: Soloing a defense with a non defense frame will make that frame appear weak, while playing a defense with a defensive frame will make it appear strong. It is all about knowing the strengths and weaknesses of a frame, then properly applying them.

 

Don't be hasty to rule out a frame just because it appears weak. I encourage you to try them all. You might find that your favorite ones surprise you!

[Dairaion]

topic name is misleading, rhino is the strongest and the coolest.

[SquirmyBurrito]

snip

Concession accepted.

 

Limbo is the best for non-endless/exterminate missions, rift walk and breeze through without getting hit. Combined with my Huras Kubrow, I can literally just walk into any spy vault without setting off alarms.

 

 

Correction: Limbo is best for spy missions. He is not the best for sabotage, mobile defense, etc. He really only shines bright when stuck in spy missions (especially with a source of invisibility).

Edited January 6, 2016 by SquirmyBurrito

[NoirMortiOwl]

Concession accepted.

 

Well he is actually hilarious with Valkyr and Frost on defense. Combine Frosts Shield and Limbos Cata to have near perfect defense and a pissed off Valkyr to kill anything that gets close

 

Correction: Limbo is best for spy missions. He is not the best for sabotage, mobile defense, etc. He really only shines bright when stuck in spy missions (especially with a source of invisibility).

[RavenGuard]

Every frame has their own playstyle. Like to manipulate? Go for Nyx! Metric ****-tons o' damage? Nova will be good for you! Interrupting enemies with your flamboyant poses/interrupting abilities? Nezha will be your guy! Punch? Rhino it is! Stealth more your speed? Loki will be perfect? More punch? Atlas! Burn everything? Ember!

Loads if different playstyles. Minus a few staples, its the little things that matter. Your ability to retreat/disappear into another plane of existence/disappear entirely may save you from dying while your friends disappear entirely too! But they disappear in a bad way. They ded.

 

This.