Why Are The Coolest Warframes The Weakest?

[(PSN)T_h_e_m7]

But loki isnt JUST for stealth ;.;

Oh, I know. Distraction and nullification. But I use him for stealth. Thats where it comes from.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Hydroid is cool, shame there are far better options than him out there. I'd change everything but his wave and kraken abilities if I could.

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

I have to admit before I started this game, I had a look over all the different Warframes, tried to gauge which one I'd find most interesting and cool, and I was really happily surprised by the diversity!

 

I mean you had Ash the super assassin, you had Limbo who just sounded insane with his banishing ability and so on, oh and Hydroid sounded the boolest! Turning into water? Kraken? It all sounded awesome..

 

Yet lo and behold, I play the game, I do some research and it turns out lol, the Warframes with the LEAST interesting abilities are the most powerful? :/ (Talking Loki here, especially Loki you will not believe how much I hated his abilities/looks when I saw him first, so boring and simple to me and yet he is like a solo god in many ways, ugh)

 

But yeah meanwhile, all I can find on Hydroid and Limbo is people telling me NOT to use them and Ash...well Ash everyone just blatantly hates.

 

Did you just call Ash weak? Just wanted to make sure before I S#&$ myself laughing.

[FelisImpurrator]

What specifically about Teleport is buggy? And how is Smokebomb ineffective? Smokebomb costs 15 less energy to cast, lasts roughly 11 seconds less (than invisibility), and comes with a radial stagger. All in all that sounds pretty effective to me.

Well, that's assuming you have a very, very good duration build on Smokebomb. New players are unlikely to have that. Solid duration also means low range or lots of compensation, so you'll be juggling stats a fair bit. Remember how awful that thing is unranked? That base doesn't go all that far.

 

Teleport has that nasty habit of teleporting you backward, facing away from the now pissed-off heavy about to shoot you in the back of the head.

 

And then Shuriken... it's great for armor stripping, but the homing is atrocious and the bleed is so slow you've probably just given up and shot the enemy.

 

Poor bugger needs work. And Bladestorm needs to die in a fire.

[Kai_Shiba]

Well, that's assuming you have a very, very good duration build on Smokebomb. New players are unlikely to have that. Solid duration also means low range or lots of compensation, so you'll be juggling stats a fair bit. Remember how awful that thing is unranked? That base doesn't go all that far.

 

Teleport has that nasty habit of teleporting you backward, facing away from the now pissed-off heavy about to shoot you in the back of the head.

 

And then Shuriken... it's great for armor stripping, but the homing is atrocious and the bleed is so slow you've probably just given up and shot the enemy.

 

Poor bugger needs work. And Bladestorm needs to die in a fire.

 

Well DE are having plans to change him. Especially his Bladestorm

[(PSN)COGSPARTAN117]

Limbo is very powerful, and useful in the right hands. As for other frames being able to do everything he can do, but better... I don't remember there being any other frame that can make teammates virtually invincible while they use their abilities, AND regenerate their energy, even while using toggled abilities.

 

Yes, Ash is hated by many for no valid reason, or because there's just something about him they don't like, but you know what? Let the haters hate on. Also, Loki is so overrated imo.

 

Well, that's assuming you have a very, very good duration build on Smokebomb. New players are unlikely to have that. Solid duration also means low range or lots of compensation, so you'll be juggling stats a fair bit. Remember how awful that thing is unranked? That base doesn't go all that far.

 

Teleport has that nasty habit of teleporting you backward, facing away from the now pissed-off heavy about to shoot you in the back of the head.

 

And then Shuriken... it's great for armor stripping, but the homing is atrocious and the bleed is so slow you've probably just given up and shot the enemy.

 

Poor bugger needs work. And Bladestorm needs to die in a fire.

^Ash hater right here. :D

 

No, you don't need max duration to have good invisibility, especially with Arcane Trickery which Ash can trigger more easily than any other frame in the game, plus with the Naramon skill combined, Ash has more effective invisibility than Loki. New players are unlikely to have the mods for a good duration build for Loki's Invisibility, either.

 

Teleport works just fine for me.

 

That's what Shuriken is for... Strip the high level enemy of their armor, then finish them quickly with your weapon. Of course the damage is gonna fall off. It's still very useful for a #1 ability.

 

Bladestorm is one of the best abilities in the game, it doesn't need to go anywhere.

 

If anything Ash could use a few small QoL tweaks, but definitely NOT a rework.

[paragasu]

Ash...well Ash everyone just blatantly hates.

To OP:

The only reason why people hate Ash is that he is OP but not noob friendly...the other reason that I can think of is due to the fact that Ash being so OP in the last dark sector conflict....

 

So...yeah some people hate Ash...but it is not because he is weak

 

To Ash hater:

You don't play Ash as Loki....you don't place duration mod to make on invisibility via Ash smoke bomb last longer...that just plain hilarious

Edited January 2, 2016 by paragasu

[FelisImpurrator]

^Ash hater right here. :D

All right, I'll admit to just a little. But that's mostly because max range Bladestorms always drop in to ruin my fun. 444444- oh, you wanted kills? Nope, animation lock.

 

But, well, I'm also a person who tried to like Ash. Potatoed him twice and all. Monkeyed with builds trying to figure out what was fun. And it just didn't work out half as well as Ivara is.

 

Note that Arcane Trickery is not part of the warframe. Naramon is not part of the warframe. New players have 0% chance of having these built up unless they wallet warrior up some Trickeries with plat. So, those are totally irrelevant. If Smokebomb can't stand on its own, it needs help. I never said I built max duration either - just that it needs a bit higher than average to not be a few-second-wonder energy eater. And no, it doesn't need to be Invisibility. It just doesn't do quite enough for its cost.

 

If you've never had a teleport turn you around, or just fail to open up finishers, you're a very lucky player indeed. I get a very expensive way to get shot in the back about half the time.

 

Shuriken - you're talking about an augment. The base ability itself is effectively just an augment boat, if that's the best thing you can say about it.

 

Bladestorm? Bladestorm is quite possibly one of the worst designed abilities in the game. You press 4 to win, on autopilot. It literally turns off your controls and bots kills for you - and also locks them out for everyone else. That, and if you hit ONE tanky enemy, you're forced to watch as Screensaver Man flails around trying to stab that one immortal ancient in the face for several seconds, while the entire team can't actually do anything to said immortal ancient while it's in the animation... and it's still buffing everything else.

 

Unless you have Smoke Shadow, Ash is horrifically selfish even by "soloframe" standards (I mean, Ivara can handle revives and CC, Valkyr can Warcry...) and straight up prevents people from playing the game with the most popular build. I've seen good Ash players who don't mash 4 constantly and make use of what they have, but I've also seen amazing Oberons and Limbos and Hydroids.

To Ash hater:

You don't play Ash as Loki....you don't place duration mod to make on invisibility via Ash smoke bomb last longer...that just plain hilarious

Oh, is that my nickname for you guys now? Fun stuff. Now, do tell me how Ash is supposed to be built. Max range strength efficiency bladestorm all day? I ran smokeport+seeking when I still played him.

[Moghul]

Limbo can be quite powerful but he doesn't feel like a Warframe in any way and his powers are the exact same thing with different targets (me, you, everyone, and a damage buff). He needs a re-design. Not a rework just a straight up... pretty much replacement.

 

Hydroid does indeed need a rework. His powers are pretty lackluster and the one power that could be good is hit and miss since the tentacles seem to spawn in a weird algorithm where enemies still seem to be able to shoot at you for a few seconds.

 

Ash is one of the most powerful frames out there... but he's boring. His power set is pretty good but he doesn't really have CC so he compensates with an ultimate that goes straight for health and scales fairly OK... but is boring. Play him if you like him but Blade Storm gives people motion sickness.

 

As for Loki; don't talk S#&$ about Loki. He might be, in your eyes, this almighty beast (and that's true) but you do have to be fairly attentive. I've had high level enemies just shoot randomly in my general direction and that's enough to kill you.

 

There are plenty of cool concept frames out there and I'm sure you can replace those first 3 in your heart.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Well, that's assuming you have a very, very good duration build on Smokebomb. New players are unlikely to have that. Solid duration also means low range or lots of compensation, so you'll be juggling stats a fair bit. Remember how awful that thing is unranked? That base doesn't go all that far.

 

Teleport has that nasty habit of teleporting you backward, facing away from the now pissed-off heavy about to shoot you in the back of the head.

 

And then Shuriken... it's great for armor stripping, but the homing is atrocious and the bleed is so slow you've probably just given up and shot the enemy.

 

Poor bugger needs work. And Bladestorm needs to die in a fire.

 

The base duration is more than enough and the new players are guaranteed to have that once they've reached the level (whatever that may be) that smokebomb reaches its max (full base) effects. No, solid duration requires nothing more than leaving the ability at base. The only way you're going to end up with low range is if you use narrowminded, which is completely unnecessary. It isn't awful so no I don't remember.

 

Does it? I've never actually experienced this glitch. As far as I'm aware the enemy is staggered when you teleport to them so even if this glitch does occur you have more than enough time to turn around.

 

I never said Shuriken was good just as very few people say switch teleport is good.

 

Why does Bladestorm need to die? It is incredibly good.

[Arenzo4]

The base duration is more than enough and the new players are guaranteed to have that once they've reached the level (whatever that may be) that smokebomb reaches its max (full base) effects. No, solid duration requires nothing more than leaving the ability at base. The only way you're going to end up with low range is if you use narrowminded, which is completely unnecessary. It isn't awful so no I don't remember.

 

Does it? I've never actually experienced this glitch. As far as I'm aware the enemy is staggered when you teleport to them so even if this glitch does occur you have more than enough time to turn around.

 

I never said Shuriken was good just as very few people say switch teleport is good.

 

Why does Bladestorm need to die? It is incredibly good.

i love ash, hes my most used frame, but im pretty sure it needs to die for one of 2 reasons

1:people hate damage 4's that clear entire maps, i dont really mind that tho

2:My reason, it needs to stop being a cutscene

[Cubewano]

what you find as cool and not cool is entirely your own opinion, so generalized statements like this are entirely inaccurate and not worth sharing. i'm sorry if the frames you find interesting personally aren't playing up to par, but if that's the issue then it is better to take to the feedback forums and make recommendations as to how to bring them up to par instead of just baiting people, which is all you will manage with this discussion.

 

i would also like to note that two of the frames you mentioned are by no means "weak", ash is one of the greatest dps frames in the game at  the moment (though the results are quite bland as to do this you end up in this endless action film sequence) and actually quite interesting to play with a teleport melee build. And limbo while very selective with his pros is no less useful, he is incredibly useful at handling priority targets and void bubble in excellent for defensive situations, not to mention how excellent being able to banish teammates can be in certain farming strategies if that's your flavor of pie. hydroid is not as fortunate, but then he excels at providing loot so perhaps that's the trade-off.

[leoxastaroth]

what you find as cool and not cool is entirely your own opinion, so generalized statements like this are entirely inaccurate and not worth sharing. i'm sorry if the frames you find interesting personally aren't playing up to par, but if that's the issue then it is better to take to the feedback forums and make recommendations as to how to bring them up to par instead of just baiting people, which is all you will manage with this discussion.

 

i would also like to note that two of the frames you mentioned are by no means "weak", ash is one of the greatest dps frames in the game at  the moment (though the results are quite bland as to do this you end up in this endless action film sequence) and actually quite interesting to play with a teleport melee build. And limbo while very selective with his pros is no less useful, he is incredibly useful at handling priority targets and void bubble in excellent for defensive situations, not to mention how excellent being able to banish teammates can be in certain farming strategies if that's your flavor of pie. hydroid is not as fortunate, but then he excels at providing loot so perhaps that's the trade-off.

 

That is some nice selective reading you have there friend, considering I never said Ash is weak in any way I just said that people hated him. I also like how you entirely glossed over the fact I specifically used the words "in my opinion" in order to instead try and make me out to be a troll trying to bait people.

[Dr_Dac]

weakness is relative i only assess a warframe is weak if he is so generalized that he fails to find a niche for himself.

 

(talking to you Nezha)

 

Limbo is a god in Corpus Spy(what are laser grids)

Hydroid is used for Ress farming

 

nearly every frame has a use it may be very niche and rarely needed but useable.

[Cubewano]

That is some nice selective reading you have there friend, considering I never said Ash is weak in any way I just said that people hated him. I also like how you entirely glossed over the fact I specifically used the words "in my opinion" in order to instead try and make me out to be a troll trying to bait people.

Hardly selective, your title alone delivers the message that you believe any of the frames you have deemed "cool" are weak, in quite a literal fashion, and the post following it goes on to deliver the same message by claiming the "least interesting" frames are the most powerful, which also denotes that you believe your preferred/interesting frames to be weak. If you thoughts were otherwise you should have worded it better. I would also recommending knowing your own words in the first place before trying to correct someone else on them, you don't use the phrase "in my opinion" once in your original post.

[SoIaris]

If anyone here has played league of legends before they'll understand what I mean by this, Limbo has the Bard dilemma.

 

Limbo's skills are great and he can be an absolute god when in a game with others who know how to play with him, but pugs and low skill players don't know how to play as or with him correctly. Ash is amazing, I have no clue what you meant by that in your post. And Hydroid is useful, but very situationally useful, maybe he needs a rework along with limbo.

 

When I say Limbo needs a rework, I don't mean it as he isn't powerful enough right now, I mean it as his 3 ability should be a passive, it's just kinda dumb.

[Dr_Dac]

If i had to rework Limbo it would read out like this

 

passive: Phased Limbo and Teammates in a 30 meter radius enter a phased status reducing recieved damage by 25% and gaining

0.5 energy per second.

 

Ability 1: Banish targeting a Teammate or Enemy, Limbo sends the target into the Rift. If no target is elected Limbo banishes himself.

Rift passive: increased damage taken by Enemy by 200%, Allys regenerate 4 Energy per second. Enemys get knocked down when entering.

 

Ability 2: Fields of Chaos, Limbo shunts an entire region into the Rift any Ally or Enemy that enter recieve the respective Rift passive.

In the Center of the field a crystal spawns, getting close and pressing X will remove the Fields of Chaos. There can be up to 3 instances

of Fields of Chaos active at a time. Casting another Field will remove the oldest currently active one.

 

Ability 3: Empower Limbo Empowers the Crystals giving them a shield and turning them into turrets gaining Benefits from his equipped Primary

Mods (like Ivara) an empowered Crystal is a valid target for Enemies and can be destroyed, deactivating the field.

 

Abilitiy 4: Phantom of the Rift. Limbo sucks in Rift Energy going into Semi energtic form, gaining reduced incoming damage, and stats.

(basically Rift Avatar form, he can only move in Fields of Chaos and cannot leave them) This is a toggled ability.

[X5934-078FR1]

Limbo has quite a few specialized applications. Infested survival, ODS 40 minutes, no problem. Interception is another one he is quite good at.

If Limbo is not played right he can be one of the most annoying frames in the game, and that is why most avoid him.

 

Hydroid is beast. A Hydroid with pilfering swarm is amazing for farming, even farming life support or power cores for excavation. Quite good at defense missions as well. You see someone camping that door in orokin defense, no problem, spam those tentacles right in his face.

 

The way to use Ash without hate is, don't use his fourth until the team desperately needs it. They will be relieved instead of being annoyed. Don't make the range too large or you will just be stealing everyone's kills, they will have wasted effort and/or ammo.

 

Honestly, no frame is really as annoying as people not being aware of their team mates.

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Unranked Smoke Bomb lasts less than a second - leveling Ash is kind of a pain. Max rank is... halfway decent, but don't you run into energy issues on frequent recast? At least, if it's being used for melee damage and CC, and not just as a pure means of getting out of the way, it usually needs to be cast more than once every so often. Unless you run with EV Trinity or something.

 

I've experienced teleport turn-around several times as client AND host. The stagger isn't long enough to still execute a finisher; by the time you turn around, the enemy has recovered enough to only receive a normal melee attack. And of course, it alerts enemies, so it's really terrible for stealth.

 

I've already said exactly why Bladestorm needs to be torn out and replaced. It's not that it's weak. It's that it's the most boring ability in the game. Press 4 to Screensaver, and probably give people motion sickness. And of course on superheavy (like sortie 3) enemies... it'll leave you stabbing an immortal ancient's tentacle face for ten seconds like a fool, animation-locking it into invincibility like the kubrow grapple, while that ancient is still making everyone else tanky.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

Ash and Limbo were both EASILY superior to Loki(Loki master race yet he couldn't compare to Limbo pre nerf AT ALL. Limbo solo'd LoR, Loki needs an entire team. Pre nerf, of course),Ash still is if you use him right, but the people on the forums had Limbo nerfed almost as soon as he was released and Ash's Nerf/"rework" is in the works right now. Now limbo is just for extermination and that takes forever because of all the long casts. Cant carry anything, cant pick up anything, you cant even stand on panels or hack from the void, yet its all ok for Hysteria(Valkyr).

 

All the best frames have been lowered because of people who main Loki, Nova, Frost and Valkyr. They only take in the majority of people on the forums input and thats it. The REAL majority(people who play the game but don't use the forums) don't get heard so the games focused around mentioned frames. People refuse to do LoR without said frames at all, which is Logical given the fact that it takes 10 mins for Mesa, Ash or Saryn to kill 1 100+ enemy. Apparently scaling in to endgame is a problem, all scaling for dps stops around 50, excluding Valkyr, for obvious reasons.

 

As for Hydroid, idk i rarely use him. I do know he was nerfed twice. What was nerfed, i have no idea.

Edited January 4, 2016 by (PS4)whoistimjones

[NoirMortiOwl]

If i had to rework Limbo it would read out like this

 

passive: Phased Limbo and Teammates in a 30 meter radius enter a phased status reducing recieved damage by 25% and gaining

0.5 energy per second.

 

Ability 1: Banish targeting a Teammate or Enemy, Limbo sends the target into the Rift. If no target is elected Limbo banishes himself.

Rift passive: increased damage taken by Enemy by 200%, Allys regenerate 4 Energy per second. Enemys get knocked down when entering.

 

Ability 2: Fields of Chaos, Limbo shunts an entire region into the Rift any Ally or Enemy that enter recieve the respective Rift passive.

In the Center of the field a crystal spawns, getting close and pressing X will remove the Fields of Chaos. There can be up to 3 instances

of Fields of Chaos active at a time. Casting another Field will remove the oldest currently active one.

 

Ability 3: Empower Limbo Empowers the Crystals giving them a shield and turning them into turrets gaining Benefits from his equipped Primary

Mods (like Ivara) an empowered Crystal is a valid target for Enemies and can be destroyed, deactivating the field.

 

Abilitiy 4: Phantom of the Rift. Limbo sucks in Rift Energy going into Semi energtic form, gaining reduced incoming damage, and stats.

(basically Rift Avatar form, he can only move in Fields of Chaos and cannot leave them) This is a toggled ainvulnerability

Except limbo is squishy as hell. If it weren't for the total invulnerability, limbo would die to a breeze.

All Limbo really needs is the ability to pick things up whi?e in the void, make his 3 a passive (really why is that there?), and he would be good. The biggest complaint i hear a lot is not being able to get pick ups while cata is running. Also, if you could get energy orbs while rift walking, you could very easily be able to spam his 1 ability whi!e in the rift and never run out of energy.

[SquirmyBurrito]

i love ash, hes my most used frame, but im pretty sure it needs to die for one of 2 reasons

1:people hate damage 4's that clear entire maps, i dont really mind that tho

2:My reason, it needs to stop being a cutscene

I disagree with both of those. Some people disliking something is not a good enough reason to get rid of something that not only functions, but functions well.

Hasn't it already been sped up a great deal with the addition of clones?

 

Unranked Smoke Bomb lasts less than a second - leveling Ash is kind of a pain. Max rank is... halfway decent, but don't you run into energy issues on frequent recast? At least, if it's being used for melee damage and CC, and not just as a pure means of getting out of the way, it usually needs to be cast more than once every so often. Unless you run with EV Trinity or something.

I've experienced teleport turn-around several times as client AND host. The stagger isn't long enough to still execute a finisher; by the time you turn around, the enemy has recovered enough to only receive a normal melee attack. And of course, it alerts enemies, so it's really terrible for stealth.

I've already said exactly why Bladestorm needs to be torn out and replaced. It's not that it's weak. It's that it's the most boring ability in the game. Press 4 to Screensaver, and probably give people motion sickness. And of course on superheavy (like sortie 3) enemies... it'll leave you stabbing an immortal ancient's tentacle face for ten seconds like a fool, animation-locking it into invincibility like the kubrow grapple, while that ancient is still making everyone else tanky.

Unranked Smoke Screen lasts 2 seconds, but still features its radial stagger. Leveling Ash is easier than leveling Loki as Ash, unlike Loki, has damage dealing abilities. If you're running into energy issues with Ash, you'd be having the same issue with every other frame that isn't Trinity/Limbo.

The stagger lasts more than long enough unless you're taking your sweet time. Paired with the 'melee tracks target' option and you don't even have to turn your camera around to attack the target. You're exaggerating the details. It not functioning well for stealth is not a con if its purpose isn't stealth. Teleport's primary function against enemies is single target melee assassinations. It opens them up to finishers, and if you can't manage to get the finisher off the damage dealt to it will still receive the stealth damage multiplier.

Smokescreen is far from the most boring ability in the game. That title goes to one of the following: Undertow, Absorb, Sound Quake, or Desecrate. Undertow because you press it and proceed to do very little. Absorb because you press it and wait for enemies to attack you/detonate a Penta grenade under yourself. Sound Quake because you press it and stagger everyone within the AoE. Unless you're on low level missions you aren't killing anything and once you run out of energy/stop using your ability very little has changed unless you had teammates/companions who were killing the staggered enemies. Desecrate makes the list because it is horribly repetitive, its function dominates and skews player perception of the frame in a negative way (loot bot) and on your own you accomplish very little as far as changing the scope of the battlefield goes. Loki's switch teleport was incredibly close to making the list but its synergy with decoy allowed it to squeak by.

For Bladestorm you press 4 (while aiming at an enemy) and you proceed to kill virtually everything within its AoE up to a target limit. If you reduce the range enough you can get its AoE down to 8.5 meters which, if you kill surrounding fodder, allows you to execute a concentrated strike on any particularly strong enemy. This tactic paired with Bladestorm's augment should allow you to kill enemies found in sorties pretty easily while also being able to maintain smoke screen for added safety and damage.

Here is a video that I just recorded, the audio may be a bit wonky because of how I have my volume set up but that's irrelevant.

It should be finished uploading in ~5 minutes. No idea how long it will take to finish processing though. All done processing.

Edited January 4, 2016 by SquirmyBurrito

[Xgomme]

Someone should make a tuto on how to play Limbo x) He's so good... ViP killer, invicible if well played, mini EV, can defend a cryopod... etc

 

And Hydroid is not useless, he's fun to play and with loot augment mod and a specific build he gains a second utility.

 

+ Akkad, Eris. You go there to gain your first 10 levels for your warframe. Before behing a waste on Draco x)

Edited January 4, 2016 by Xgomme

[VoidNomade]

1#: This are the problems... X,Y

2#: Dude he can do Z

1#: This still doesn´t fix X,Y

2#: .. but he looks cool weeeiiiiiiii

1#: .......

 

It´s always the same :)

[SquirmyBurrito]

Someone should make a tuto on how to play Limbo x) He's so good... ViP killer, invicible if well played, mini EV, can defend a cryopod... etc

 

And Hydroid is not useless, he's fun to play and with loot augment mod and a specific build he gains a second utility.

 

+ Akkad, Eris. You go there to gain your first 10 levels for your warframe. Before behing a waste on Draco x)

 

There are already a ton a frames that can act as a 'VIP killer', he isn't unique in this, he is invulnerable but not invincible. More like secondary energy siphon, Frost defends the cryopod better.

 

Hydroid is nigh-useless. The loot augment turns a lackluster ult into a slightly less lackluster ult.