Carrier Is The Crock-Pot Of Sentinels. Equip It And Forget It!

[Trentiel]

We all know it's OP. The statistics on sentinel usage show it. But what to do about it.

I've heard a lot of people call for Vacuum to be a universal mod.

But Vacuum is so useful, it'd just become a "mandatory mod." Which is a fair observation.

Because of the way Warframe plays, especially these days. Running and gunning at extreme speeds means that any time spent to stop and pick up items means falling behind the group. Or running out of ammo during hectic survivals.

I would argue that the need to be concerned with item pick-ups is a valid game play obstacle.

The problem is Vacuum is too much of a loophole. It entirely closes off an entire complication of combat, and gives any player using it a massive lead. This is why Carrier is so heavily used. It frees the player to think about other things, because they know they WILL pick up all dropped ammo, energy, health orbs, resource etc.

The nature of Vacuum and Fetch make them outstanding abilities. But the effect that they have on gameplay is too much of a dominant strategy. It removes complexity and obstacles from the game, they don't add to it. It makes many players think "why isn't this just a feature by default?" Maybe... it should be.


The Solution:

 

-Replace Vacuum with 3 mods that specialize in magnetizing particular drops to the player.

-One mod for Mods & Resources, One mod for Ammo & Credits, One mod for Orbs of all stripes.

-Make these three 3 magnet mods universal to all Sentinels & Kubrow, but mutually exclusive to each other.

-Give Carrier the ability to "print extra ammo and orbs"
-Give all Kubrow the ability to carry items in their mouths, and replace Chesa Kubrow's fetch with something else. (I don't know, suggestions anyone?)
 

Alternatives:

-Perhaps the three magnetic mods would be able to pick up any item, at a small range. But specialize in one item type, with a larger range? So it doesn't feel too much like a nerf.

Another Solution:

-Leave Vacuum on Carrier.

-Give Carrier the ability to CARRY a cache of stored ammo and orbs. Dispensing as needed.
-Add the 3 universal magnetic mods, so every other companion has a fighting chance, but don't tread too heavily on Carrier's domain.
-Rework Chesa anyway, all Kubrow should fetch by default. (it's so darn cute when the wild kubrow fetch items) It would be actually effective, with a magnetic mod to scoop up items in their area.

Feedback on my feedback? Is Carrier not actually OP? Are these ideas too far out there? I just want to push this idea out there, so it's known.

[(PSN)Rayne_C_ZA]

This is like the worst "solution" to the problem I've seen yet. 

 

Complicating things does not problems solve.

 

An easy solution would be to simply enlarge the pickup radius on Warframes and everybody will be happy. A greater enlargement is required for Archwings. Wan't an even greater range? Then equip your Carrier which can add to it. 

 

Quick and simple.

 

Why the pickup radius in this game is like 5 inches is beyond me really. Especially considering just how much stuff needs picking up. Imagine playing DMC where you have to go and stand on every orb that drops to pick it up. Won't be quite the same DMC now would it?

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

We all know it's OP. The statistics on sentinel usage show it. But what to do about it.

Meh stats are stats but they don't exactly paint clear pictures.  This doesn't really mean the Carrier is the "best" Sentinel or that he is OP - what it means from (my perspective) is that Carrier the scrubbiest/and most desired by entry level players and it's because they're lazy.

As an MR21 I have virtually no use for a Carrier.  I can pick up resources on my own just fine.  I personally like my Wyrm for CC and Helios for scanning (since you know, that's actually "difficult" to do on my own).  Or a nice well modded Kubrow.  If I'm farming materials then I'll rock Carrier, but never ever any other time.  I would never take Carrier to a mission in which I didn't want the resources.  And since I only ever need to farm for Polymer you can imagine how used he is...

I can even supply my own energy/health/ammo/shields all faster than he can vaccuum stuff up (and with drop pads it goes to the whole team) - so I don't see him as much of a combat advantage.  Anybody who has Large Team X Blueprints is going to be more useful to not just themselves, but the whole team versus a player rocking a Carrier, hands down.

I also play FAST frames and find a severe disadvantage to Carrier is that if I actually want his vaccuum to work properly I often have to slow down or come to a complete stop or else all the loot just hangs on his body and drops to ground when I get too far away from it's pickup source.  I honestly have more worries for my loot playing with a Carrier on than without...  

Carrier is pure utility for helping people stand in one place and farm - and since Warframe is a game that revolves around farming it should come as no surprise that a large majority of players will use him more often.  

It's not a "problem" - he's serving his purpose.  HE doesn't need buffs or nerfs - peopled need to understand that especially in a game with a playerbase this massive - 90% of the people in those stats are one time players, casual players or people who played for a few weeks and quit.  Only the small percentage actually stays with the game to be as high Rank as I am or to play as long as I have and become long-term serious players.  If you looked at stats of only Veteran players it would probably paint a different picture.

Just an example I guess... Volt Prime was the 2nd most used Frame on PS4 last year according to their stats - but we all know that's BS (I haven't seen a volt in a public game in literal months).  What really happened was Volt Prime pack came out and 10,000 noobs bought it and only played it a few times and then never again.  If 3000 scrubs all buy Volt and play him for only an hour, but I play Mesa for 3000 combined hours on my own - then Volt will still be considered "more used" than Mesa just because more people used him, doesn't mean more time has been spent on that frame.  

So he was "most used" by more people in numbers - but not by most people who actually 'matter' or are actually part of the game long term.  You will almost never see vet players running Volts lol.  Volt certainly isn't anything close to OP.  The lesson is that stats are not your friend in video games because most video game players are casual players. 

Stats in video games will almost always reflect the casual playerbase and not the actual hardcore/longterm players and in no way should be weighted in game development decisions.  

Edited January 8, 2016 by (PS4)lagrue

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Still one for the #dogemasterrace, nerfing sentinels in anyway is a sad thing, ranked right up there with nerfing melee when we have the guns for wipe entire rooms in a shot or two. Sentinels pay a steep price for the (limited) power they hold, they die once (twice with mod) and now you might as well have ran the mission without it. "Well if you use trinity/a specific frame to protect the sentinels/don't take damage... they wont just die. Git good!" Except unlike the doges slash procs are a serious threat, you need some way to protect them from harm because there is no way to heal any health loss without using a specific frame. And when compared to the abilities of the doges, Vacuum is the only one the holds up or exceeds the usefulness of the doge counterpart. Sentinels are lost their companions with only one (two counting prime) seriously worthy of using past mastery fodder.

Edited January 8, 2016 by DarcnyssWolfe

[Otenko]

I remember on a Devstream, Glen seemed to not be concerned with the fact that Carrier is the most used Sentinel. He seemed comfortable in allowing players stick with Boltor Prime + Carrier if they're comfortable with that and more "hardcore" players using the other Sentinels and then kind of left it at that.

 

It seems that means Carrier is unlikely to receive a change by making Vacuum universal and all that entails. I can't be sure whether or not that means they don't want to change Carrier or don't know how to change Carrier.

 

 

This is like the worst "solution" to the problem I've seen yet. 

 

Complicating things does not problems solve.

 

An easy solution would be to simply enlarge the pickup radius on Warframes and everybody will be happy. A greater enlargement is required for Archwings. Wan't an even greater range? Then equip your Carrier which can add to it. 

 

Quick and simple.

 

Why the pickup radius in this game is like 5 inches is beyond me really. Especially considering just how much stuff needs picking up. Imagine playing DMC where you have to go and stand on every orb that drops to pick it up. Won't be quite the same DMC now would it?

I personally think pickup range is decent enough in normal missions. You don't have to be in teabagging range to pick stuff up anymore, but you still have to go near it. I can live with that.

 

Although, I think Archwing really really could use expanded pickup distance, especially because Itzal practically has that by default. Finding tiny specks of resources/mods in free-space is exasperating and makes Archwing feel more like a scavenger hunt than a space combat mode, at times.

 

Also, the DMC comparison isn't totally appropriate. In DMC 1 and 3, you really did have to walk over orbs you wanted to pick up. It wasn't as bad in that game because there were fewer enemies you have to fight in a mission in addition to smaller maps, compared to hundreds of enemies in Warframe which in turn means hundreds of drops you have to walk over in giant, sprawling tilesets. They do share similarities though, Red Orbs in those games are more like Argon/Tellurium/Neural Sensors/Neurodes/etc; you pick up Red Orbs because they're valuable and less common, like keeping an eye out for green Resource containers on missions

 

In DMC4, they gave you essentially map-wide auto-pickup. Although, in DMC4 Red Orbs are pretty worthless; after you buy your 6 Blue Orbs and 7 Purple Orbs, they're unnecessary unless you buy tons of consumables. Red Orbs are more like Alloy Plate in that game. You have millions and end up ignoring them, like yellow Resource containers on regular missions because they practically fall from the sky.

 

All of that being said, even though DMC4's auto-pickup would be more appropriate due to how much we have to pick up in this game, I can still live without Carrier range on pickups. But everyone has different preferences.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Otenko

[Trentiel]

I know they've said that Carrier is fine as is.

Seemed kind of dismissive is all. Dominant strategies should be addressed, especially if they hinder players from taking any interest in other features of the game. Other features that represent a potential platinum sink.

Many players look at Kubrow and go "ugh, what a waste of time. They're not as useful as my carrier, and I have to maintain them."

DE ought to be more concerned about a huge % of the playerbase giving a pass on several other sentinels and kubrow.

What are the stats on that. Where does Carrier stand against the next most popular companion? Where does Excal stand against the next most popular Warframe? If it's not much of a difference, then... well I'd be on my way.

[KirukaChan]

I'd love it if Carrier got a replacement for Vacuum, but only because I don't use Vacuum in the first place. I saw it waste Energy Orbs and I was not happy. I still use Carrier occasionally (if I need a Sentinel to defend me at close range only). Ever since I got my hands on Animal Instinct, missing out on loot was no longer a concern.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

The solution is to make the other Sentienels fun and useful and not render them junk, because god forbid my Helios allow me to look through walls, or my shade keep me invisible regardless of line of sight when standing still. Oh and how the game will shatter to thousands of pieces and everyone will leave if my Wyrm when slamming the enemy to the ground pops out extra materials on their deaths or rocket jumps me or does something awesome.

Edited January 8, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Make Vacuum an innate passive ability for all sentinels/ kubrows. Carrier should function as ammo mutator (Change ammo into the type your current weapon needs)/ ammo storage.

 

Why is it such a huge deal? Vacuum is the problem not carrier

[Rivy]

I'd just make resource, credit and mod drops shared by the whole team.

Then players without Carrier would only need to manually pick up ammo, energy and hp, which would let me take Djinn for a walk now that it's been reworked :P

[Trentiel]

Everyone has a different point of view on this. To be honest, I still think item sweeping is too useful to be locked to a Sentinel. But now I don't quite know what the solution is.

Maybe it's more variety and control over Sentinel abilities.

Maybe it's rethinking how drops work entirely.

Maybe everything is fine, return to your homes, nothing to see here.

Glad it's not my job.

[surfingpika]

I have a thought that should make most people happy:

Warframes pick up materials, mods, credits, and blueprints within x range.

Carrier increases the pickup range to y, and also picks up orbs and ammo.

The vaccum precept makes ammo, health, and energy pickups 10-60% more efficient.

 

People get sane pickup rates on the things that they want (and don't affect combat), Carrier is better, but remains best in slot if you want to bring a bullet hose.

[Trentiel]

This is so elegant I love it.

 

I have a thought that should make most people happy:

Warframes pick up materials, mods, credits, and blueprints within x range.

Carrier increases the pickup range to y, and also picks up orbs and ammo.

The vaccum precept makes ammo, health, and energy pickups 10-60% more efficient.

 

People get sane pickup rates on the things that they want (and don't affect combat), Carrier is better, but remains best in slot if you want to bring a bullet hose.

It doesn't replace Carrier's purpose in combat, but also gives it a bit of a buff in the wake of not having a monopoly on sucking up items.

Doesn't add pointless complications, like new mods. Or requiring reworking anything, outside of a slight tweak to Carrier.

[Chipputer]

Honestly Carrier is fine as it is. The only problem I have with it is the amount of people that purposefully get themselves killed to get their Carrier back because God forbid they walk over a few drops for a few minutes.

 

I use Carrier a lot, but I also love my Djinn and my Kubrows. I use them quite a bit. They're actually useful. Carrier just means I can farm a run without having to worry about missing anything that I'm looking for.

[DSpite]

For the record, with all these toggle abilities, Vacuum is a nuisance to me and I'm not using it.

 

If one abilitiy is using energy at constant tick, it seems to pick up Energy as a soon as you use say, 3 points, effectively wasting 22 points of energy, and then it ticks again and it grabs the next orb in range.

 

I now manage my energy level and run over globes manually for fill ups, same thing for ammo etc etc.

It wastes far too much resources, and it's not as if a bright blue glowing orb on the ground is hard to see.

 

The only time I'm putting it on now is for speed opening cabinets on Jupiter, or going in Void just to farm containers behind walls with my max reach whips.