My Problem With The Concept Of Valkyr Prime

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1) The garismi skin is what Valkyr looked like before being captured.  You don't have to like the design.  But thems the facts.

 

2) The dev's already said her prime would be based off of the garismi skin.

 

3) The dev's have also stated that the torture did not warp her powers or change them.  The primed variant would have the same powers she does now.

 

Lastly there is no plot hole.  A warframe is shaped in the image of the tenno with the abilities.  We as tenno undergo a technique called transference which from most indications shows us melding minds with the warframe.  Everything the see and feel and touch the tenno deals with.  It's my guess that even though we don't own the original suits the memories and experiences are imprinted in the blueprint themselves.  Because the frames did share everything with the Tenno.

 

So when the warframe was tortured the original tenno felt it and likely died from it.  All the corpus did was torture her.  which is responsible for her normal looks we are used to.  and the rage she has.  Her powers are not based upon the rage.

[YasaiTsume]

Valkyr Prime (Original)

> Germsi Valkyr (imperfect Copy of Original)

> Valkyr players get from 5alad (Copy of Corpus Damaged Germsi Valkyr)

 

 

Just my 2 plats. Don't show yur knives at me.

[NinthAria]

I don't think it's as complicated a plot hole as people seem to think. Or even a plot hole at all. Alad V and the Zanuka Project are not the only things in the universe capable of turning someone into a screaming ball of berserk rage. It's entirely possible the original Valkyr (that is to say, Valkyr Prime, and the subsequent Gersemi Valkyr) was a berserker for reasons unrelated to being tormented in a lab. Or maybe she was tormented in a different lab. Or just tormented by something else entirely. Or maybe she wasn't tormented at all, and was just naturally predisposed towards aggression and violence. Given the cut of Gersemi Valkyr's build, I could pretty easily see her just being a great (albeit terrifying) warrior from the Orokin age, prone to shouting battle cries and tearing people apart and all that good stuff.

 

There's a lot of ways it could go down without forming any contradictions, is basically what I'm getting at here.

[arch111]

I have discussed this at leangth MANY times, from her release uptill the Gersemi skin release. Here is what I have to say.

Valkyr Prime.

Primed and bling version of Gersemi, white hopefully.

It is established that Gersemi was before Alads experiment on her. Please Stop making headcanon about this.

Before the experiment there was Gersemi.

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

As for powers. They stay. The visuals, animation and vocals should change to separate it from the rage of Valkyr.

Valkyr Prime should be a fuming meleewarrior, a berserker, a warmaiden, a demon and battleangel.

My thought on why it screams and is changed from torture, Alad tried to control a warframe.

A warframe is by the Lore we have two things.

1) A biomechanical GROWN creature.

2) A vessel for a Tenno-pilot.

Each frame have a stance and capacity to learn, it levels up.

The experiment changed the nature of the warframe host.

The host of Valkyr Prime should therefore be normal and calm by comparison.

[Specific.Zod]

Valkyr Prime (Original)

> Germsi Valkyr (imperfect Copy of Original)

> Valkyr players get from 5alad (Copy of Corpus Damaged Germsi Valkyr)

Just my 2 plats. Don't show yur knives at me.

No. Gemisi Is original. Orokin copy her power into Orokin-made form -> enchanted her overall. Salad 5 wanted to do the same -> he is incompetent -> leave scar on kitty as we know.

[motorfirebox]

There are two types of players; those that like Valkyr's gameplay, and those that don't.

 

...Those that want Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay do so because they don't like regular Valkyr's gameplay.

 

Er, no, that's simply wrong. There are those of us who like Valkyr's gameplay, but also like lore and want Valkyr (or Gersemi) Prime to be different because the lore strongly indicates that they should be different.

[Specific.Zod]

Oh ffs, this topic again? I'm ignoring the lore discussion going on here and focusing on the gameplay related stuff, since it CLEMs me off to no end that some people say Valkyr Prime should have different abilities, so for everyone that suggests it, please read below;

There are two types of players; those that like Valkyr's gameplay, and those that don't.

Those that do like Valkyr's gameplay want Valkyr Prime to have the same gameplay, albeit with slightly buffed stats.

Those that want Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay do so because they don't like regular Valkyr's gameplay.

The people that want Valkyr Prime, want her because they like regular Valkyr's gameplay.

With all that said, why should DE upset the people that want Valkyr Prime, because of the people that either don't want her, or are indifferent?

Apologies if this comes off as passive aggressive, but it's the simplest way to word it. If you wish for Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay compared to regular Valkyr, first ask yourself why you want a Valkyr Prime at all.

we, who love her understand that her power not come from torture by salad 5, but her original is already aggressive, look at Gemini skin, that is already point out she is a predator. Just wonder if they keep the tail or not when introduce prime one.

[(PSN)X1155752X]

Er, no, that's simply wrong. There are those of us who like Valkyr's gameplay, but also like lore and want Valkyr (or Gersemi) Prime to be different because the lore strongly indicates that they should be different.

 

I'm not wrong, you're just taking things too literally, please don't make this into another "Tenno are energy beings 'cus Vor said so" thing, nothing in the lore explicitly states that Valkyr Prime would have a different power set, the only things that people such as yourself have to base your assumptions off are metaphors and headcanon.

 

We as a community have been over this a bazillion times already, and the accepted lore related outcome was "same powers, just fuelled by different emotions", also I stated "I'm ignoring the lore discussion going on here and focusing on the gameplay related stuff", so why the hell are you arguing about lore?

 

Let me leave it at this;

"If you wish for Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay compared to regular Valkyr, first ask yourself why you want a Valkyr Prime at all."

[Specific.Zod]

Er, no, that's simply wrong. There are those of us who like Valkyr's gameplay, but also like lore and want Valkyr (or Gersemi) Prime to be different because the lore strongly indicates that they should be different.

so why you want another called Valkyr with different skill set? So make another new frame has the name 'valkyr' in prime version body to confuse the vay hek out of people I guess? In the lore no point indicates that her power come from tortured, none. Point out to me one.

[motorfirebox]

I'm not wrong

 

Yes, actually, you are wrong about those of us who would like to see Valkyr Prime have different abilities. You said pretty clearly that the only reason someone would want that was because they don't like Valkyr's gameplay. That is not correct. There are other reasons why someone might want to see Valkyr Prime have different abilities. You can ignore lore if you like, but that doesn't change the fact that other people care about it.

 

As I said, I'm interested in Valkyr Prime because I want to see what Valkyr was like before the experimentation. And, as I also said, the lore <i>strongly indicates</i>—not proves, not states explicitly, but strongly indicates—that her abilities might have been different before her torture.

[Specific.Zod]

Yes, actually, you are wrong about those of us who would like to see Valkyr Prime have different abilities. You said pretty clearly that the only reason someone would want that was because they don't like Valkyr's gameplay. That is not correct. There are other reasons why someone might want to see Valkyr Prime have different abilities. You can ignore lore if you like, but that doesn't change the fact that other people care about it.

As I said, I'm interested in Valkyr Prime because I want to see what Valkyr was like before the experimentation. And, as I also said, the lore <i>strongly indicates</i>—not proves, not states explicitly, but strongly indicates—that her abilities might have been different before her torture.

Gemini: before salad V, there was Gemini Valkyr. You don't know that prime version is enhanced version of the original right? If you indicate valkyr prime should be different so why not Gemini valkyr???

[motorfirebox]

If I understand what you're saying, you're asking why the Gersemi skin doesn't bestow different powers on Valkyr. It seems to me that the Gersemi skin is just a skin, not a different frame.

[(PSN)X1155752X]

And, as I also said, the lore <i>strongly indicates</i>—not proves, not states explicitly, but strongly indicates—that her abilities might have been different before her torture.

 

Give me an example.

[Specific.Zod]

If I understand what you're saying, you're asking why the Gersemi skin doesn't bestow different powers on Valkyr. It seems to me that the Gersemi skin is just a skin, not a different frame.

is valkyr prime a skin with bonus stat? Your concept going nowhere, the Gemini skin lore indicates she is the original (in IMHO), or at least before salad 5 capture her. If you trying to make an augment bring sth valid, or input will not be accepted.

P/s: I'm saying or asking nothing, I just point out before salad 5, valkyr power is the same as after salad 6. Evidence supported by DE.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Player.G

[arch111]

This to me looks great as a Prime version.

[Specific.Zod]

This to me looks great as a Prime version.

Nice. Totally love it. The valkyr prime maybe the one I actually pay for by real moneyed.

[Luditte]

i find it really hard to color gersemi skin, black/white works.. most else looks terrible to me, especially the pants

[motorfirebox]

is valkyr prime a skin with bonus stat? Your concept going nowhere, the Gemini skin lore indicates she is the original (in IMHO), or at least before salad 5 capture her. If you trying to make an augment bring sth valid, or input will not be accepted.

P/s: I'm saying or asking nothing, I just point out before salad 5, valkyr power is the same as after salad 6. Evidence supported by DE.

 

Valkyr Prime, assuming it works like other primes, is going to require blueprints, materials, and build times. So no, I wouldn't say Valkyr Prime is a skin with bonus stats.

 

And yes, the lore indicates that Valkyr was originally Gersemi. But Valkyr with the Gersemi skin isn't Gersemi, it's just Valkyr wearing suit that looks like her old self.

[SilentMobius]

Let's be absolutely clear here.

Nowhere is it stated that Valkyr had different powers before Alad V got he's hands on the Warframe. Nowhere!

All of this "lore problems with Valkyr prime" silliness hinges on the player assumption that the pre-corpus valkyr must have had a different power set. Quite simply it is much more likely that Valkyr prime is perfectly fine lore-wise and then player assumption about different powers is simply wrong.

Let's look at what we know.

1. The Gersemmi skin is the visual appearance of Valkyr before the corpus experimentation.

2. The Gersemmi skin is cat themed

3. The Gersemmi skin comes with unique visualisations for hysteria

Conclusion: the pre Corpus Valkyr had Hysteria. Valkyr prime is fine, the players are just wrong... Again

Edited February 1, 2016 by SilentMobius

[Lost_Cartographer]

The Gersemmi skin is just a skin representative of pre-Corpus Valkyr.  Mind the Gersemmi skin has thinner, more robotic arms...

 

 

 

As I see it, prime warframes were never really meant to be a "thing" Tenno could acquire anymore.  I doubt the void just has parts laying around, just as I doubt bosses are actually carrying bits and pieces of various warframes.  Prime status is a trophy, something to work towards.

 

Valkyr Prime won't have any new abilities - that would make the frame anything but Valkyr prime.  Game play will always trump lore in the list of priorities.  Lore is and always will be merely flavor text unless the game is literally built around discovering the lore.  Warframe is not that kind of game.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Littleman88

[Queen_Crimson]

Tbh, all I want in Valkyr Prime is for her to have the body proportions of the normal warframe and not the anorexic Gersemi.

 

I'm also curious if they'll do the approach of making the Prime helmet like an alternate helmet, like Trinity Prime and Ash Prime were like. If not, they'll obviously do Gersemi's helmet, but Bastet Prime would be pretty interesting since most people use Bastet for Gersemi or normal body.

 

Up to DE in like 9 months though.

[Specific.Zod]

Let's be absolutely clear here.

Nowhere is it stated that Valkyr had different powers before Alad V got he's hands on the Warframe. Nowhere!

All of this "lore problems with Valkyr prime" silliness hinges on the player assumption that the pre-corpus valkyr must have had a different power set. Quite simply it is much more likely that Valkyr prime is perfectly fine lore-wise and then player assumption about different powers is simply wrong.

Let's look at what we know.

1. The Gersemmi skin is the visual appearance of Valkyr before the corpus experimentation.

2. The Gersemmi skin is cat themed

3. The Gersemmi skin comes with unique visualisations for hysteria

Conclusion: the pre Corpus Valkyr had Hysteria. Valkyr prime is fine, the players are just wrong... Again

This guy has the right idea.

You should asking for a new frame than try to insert '....' into sth is clear as sky in the night while you looking at it alone in a jungle. Debate done. Btw, you can BUY prime version of frame so who bring prime building up is an '....' <- insert your word.

[Dekallis]

1. Operator and Warframe are linked, Operator gets sensory feedback from the warframe this is shown by the shadows reaction to the cradle. He didn't know, none of them knew. They never had any reason to. He stops because he can't bring himself to finish it once he knows. Lotus and hunhow were the only two still alive who knew what the tenno really were....well...not counting the infested because that's a whole other mess. This is also hinted at in vor's understanding of the tenno when he's talking about the energy. though his understanding is flawed since he neither has a frame and is corrupted so the process isn't quite the same for him as the tenno.  

 

2.Alad points out that what was 'inside' the warframe "didn't make sense" (to him anyway) which is understandable given point one, with the way the frames behave and the awareness of sensory information they seem to have you expect there to be a person inside. However this means that the valkyr alad 'worked' on was also operated via the briefly mentioned link lotus talks about during the second dream, the link isn't explained but it's function is heavily implied.

 

3.It's irrelevant whether valkyrs powers were or werent different before because valkyrs operator would have been the one driven mad by experiencing the torture not the valkyr frame itself. As such the change is a result of a change in the operator not the alterations to the frame.(sidenote:Remember valkyr was rescued which means her operator is still alive and it's original is still out there presumably maiming things with extreme prejudice.)

 

4.Hunhow refers to alad as orokin becuase the orokin were humans. the corpus are just orokin workers who're trying to recreate the greatness they remember.Orokin isn't some mythical race of aliens people really need to figure this out by now. They were a megacorp(most likely) that functioned as a governing body the council of seven is most likely the equivalent of a board of directors. Note there has never been any reference to a individual leader of the orokin they are always referred to as a group of individuals. This also explains pretty much the entirety of Corpus society and how a civilization focused on profit and producing results can simultaneously claim to be emulating the orokin way of life while also having a religious aspect that worships them as the ideal to aspire to. Long story short, the orokin didn't vanish, just the organization that called itself that fell apart,  the people went on to form new allegiances. Humanity stumbled ever onward into the poo storm they're in now. Grineer are just offshoots mutated by genetic manipulation and clone degredation. The corpus themselves are the bulk of what's left of 'humanity'.

 

5.We know from the lore that some of the 'children' were basically feral as in the example in rhino prime's codex entry. Valkyr may have always been feral to begin with a condition only worsened by alad's treatment.

 

 

Soooooooooo it'd be pretty easy for them to put out a explaination for a prime valkyr because it almost explains itself. All the bits are already there to explain it. 

[The_Archdruid]

Except, a Valkyr Prime does not contradict this lore, even with all of her abilities left intact.

The lore reads, "Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing."

 

As most of us are likely aware, the lore is intentionally written in such a way that it can inherit many interpretations. 

In this case, we can interpret 'forged' as a fraudulent reproduction, which would not be unsurprising given Alad V's eventual Zanuka project. Past that. "leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing". She is quite obviously visually scarred, given the Warframe's appearance, angry at her captors would be a given, and adept at killing could attribute to her escape. 

 

While the original Valkyr may have owned the same rage-based abilities, she perhaps didn't own the skill, which "adept at killing" alludes to the gaining of this experience.

An important note is this is the "original Valkyr" in the lore snippet, and not the replicas the Tenno had created after the fact, or the warriors the Orokin had created specifically to fight their battles. My imagination would be that should many blueprints exist to create a replica of a Warframe, i.e. any Prime Warframe, then that Prime Warframe is not the original.

 

I could be wrong, surely, but what I'm trying to make the point for is that the lore can easily be twisted in such a way to make sense, even were it to be rather cheesy.

Primed warframes are the "original warframes" but rather they come from the designs of the original or rather the perfect model of that warframe. So how i see it, is that yes Valkyr prime should not have the exact same ascetic as normal Valkyr because they say that the Corpus are the ones who tortured her, so prime Valkyr can have the same abilities only they function visually different because the prime version wouldn't be a pissed off catwoman. It would a simple change of less screaming with her abilities(except maybe warcry, though i guess she could shout and not scream) and maybe no red haze when she uses hysteria.

[Specific.Zod]

Prime frames is ENHANCED VERSION of original frame. It is NOT ORIGINAL. Read the rhino prime description. Primed version was meant to be used by more powerful tenno than normal, the orokin wanted to make even more powerful frames by enchanting their form with prime body. I saw no thing say that prime version is the original. Salad 5 wanted to replicate that orokin technology -> failed.