Blood Rush And Body Count On Eb, Hysteria, And Wukong's...watchamacalit

[YasaiTsume]

Since Rebecca already stated that it is intended, then we should just let it be.

All the while we already know deep down the reason why these should not be allowed to work on Warframe Ults but we were just waiting for confirmation.

[bubbabenali]

May I ask how?

I looked it up, there's only 2 mods (other than Blood Rush) for melees that up Crit chance, True Steel and True Punishment, combining to give you 100% more Crit Chance, and even then only while channeling.

Hysteria has 50% Crit Chance

50x2=100%

100%=Constant REGULAR Crits(While Channeling), with 0% chance of RED Crit (When your Crit Crits)

the math just doesn't add up

Naramon focus not only makes you invisible but can also enhance your critchance.

[KiloFoxx]

Naramon focus not only makes you invisible but can also enhance your critchance.

That's a pretty shaky reason to not have Blood Rush work on Hysteria, then. as Valk already has a pitiful Energy pool and she would have to mod FOR channeling to get that red crit-ability. she'd be almost unplayable in Hysteria if you actually built for Red Crits. wereas you can bring basically any melee weapon with a 25% or above Crit chance and get red crits WITHOUT worrying about channeling, while doing more damage too. makes Hysteria kinda more useless than it was, and that's never a good thing. makes literally the ONLY thing Hysteria has going for it the Invul, which people are ALREADY salty about.

I don't like it. it makes even less sense to have Hysteria not benefit from these event mods

[shut]

All of the restrictions on exalted weapons is part of the reason that I think you should be able to mod them separately from your melee weapon.

Agreed.

I totally understand why the devs don't want these mods work on weapons, but we definitely shouldn't have our ults weakened this badly when we just want our regular melee weapons to be worth using. Having separate builds for each one would mean that players could use both their melees and their ults effectively in the same mission, and it also means that (by allowing/disallowing certain mods from each) it will be easier for the devs to balance one without impacting the other.

[IggySnow]

They should just put a cap on crit chance then. hysteria + blood rush is one of the like 3(?) melee weapons that can get over 200% crit chance. 

 

Dread can get a 92% chance to red crit with x12 damage multiplier with argon scope. and dread is ranged and has innate punch through.

 

TBH Id rather they just nerf hysteria to like a 75% damage reduction instead of being invincible and be able to use blood rush on it.  

[-dicht.Amducias-]

You do know why blood rush and body count mods do not work with abilities like that right? Because that would become so broken it would be pathetic, seeing as Blood Rush already make noncrit weapons into crit weapons then this should stay the way it is.

Where can dmg get broken when high level enemies can have 600 million health?

[Donnell]

Sad that it wasnt allowed but knew they wouldnt put it in. Similar to the syndicate mods affecting the EB.. delicious but a bit too strong.

[OfficerBeepsky]

and yet body count works with ash's bladestorm

[Gurpgork]

Where can dmg get broken when high level enemies can have 600 million health?

I think it's rather safe to say that less than 1% of the playerbase can realistically expect an enemy to ever have more than one million hitpoints, or even anything close to that. With that in mind, I think it's also rather safe to say that abilities and weapons should never be balanced for content beyond what 90% of the playerbase can realistically expect to encounter, which is approximately sortie levels (80-100). 

 

Damage gets broken when it vastly exceeds what is reasonable for the content that the grand majority of the playerbase can reasonably expect to encounter. Enemies scaling indefinitely is not a challenge to see if you can go forever, it's intended to make sure you can't go forever. Is it the best way to handle that? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that damage abilities can't be overpowered.

[Tesseract7777]

and yet body count works with ash's bladestorm

 

So? Ash also doesn't get even half of the benefits that the others do from melee mods. 

 

The others have melee mods increasing their damage. The only mods that affect Ash are Fury, Berserker (affecting speed of Bladestorm) and Steel Charge affecting damage. Ash doesn't get to benefit from every generic melee mod that's tossed on a weapon like Excal and Valkyr. So I really don't see any real unfairness here to have him work with Body Count, especially when he already has an augment that has synergy between his ult and the melee combo counter. For Ash it makes perfect sense to allow it. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Epsik-kun]

 

infinite stacking multiplicative crit boni sounds rather like a coding issue and less like a reason to screw valk over for no reason?! ... oh und you forgot the 2x base channeling multiplicator on your zoren example, as mentioned kinda unfavorable for a valkyr, what brings them to 300k spin. On frames that are able to lock down a whole field, add support... did you consider the innitial 4x stealth multiplier? That's about 1,2M with your zoren ... true punishment of you're able to compensate the energy (what you usually are), also 40% (worth it?) Were would we be? 1,3-5M? These are all multiplicative right?..wait, where were we going exactly?

On a sidenote, mind sharing your build? Sounds like something i want on my volt. Maybe with ichors? Cleavers? (Same base,higher damage. 1,8-2M? As potential poison damage which ignores shields?)

I see where the protest comes from tho...it would be REAL bad for DE to look too far into this i guess.

Well, they do have diminishing returns. Also, it won't be as sad as this. Channeling multiplier isn't a multiplicative one as it figures - it will have close to zero effect on total damage, however True Punishment will indeed increase the damage noticeably, yet it isn't a good trade off for a potential damage mod. Stealth multipliers do work, but they are implemented somewhere in between all the crit multipliers you get, so you don't get an actual x4 multiplier - Barely x2. 

The build I use right now:

On relatively achievable x3 multiplier post-Naramon, it will deal around 7~9k damage per hit prior to mitigation and around 120k damage on spins.

On x4 it'll be around 15k on normal attacks and 200k~220k on spins.

Inchors and Prisma Cleavers both will be very strong weapons for this build.

 

I also have to add, that actual order of crit chances application is something along the lines:

total_chance = base_chance * (1 + True_Steel_bonus + True_Punishment_bonus)*Naramon_bonus + Maiming_Strike_bonus [+Arcane_Avenger_bonus?]) * (1+Blood_Rush_bonus*Combo_counter)

I'm not sure if Arcane Avenger bonus is affected by Naramon Passive, as I can't test it myself, however on example of Maiming Strike, I don't think it is. Yet, it's surely affected by Blood Rush bonus.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Epsik-kun