Let’S Put An End To The Carrier Prime Master Race

[GhostFeng]

                We’ve all seen it. You pause the game mid mission, check your squad, and see “Carrier Prime” across the board. Sure, you see a cool kubrow every now and then (come on, it’s a kubrow. Everyone is willing to forgo Carrier’s massive usefulness every now and then to sport their expensive kubrow armor or fresh-out-of-the-incubator gold, bulky lotus) but we all know that you are quickly going to miss having half the loot in the room immediately come to you when dropped. The change made to Chesas in the last hotfix is a welcome improvement, but the Chesa is still no Carrier.

 

                Now we could all get in a sentinel vs. kubrow debate (plenty of them exist across every Warframe forum) or start talking about buffs to all of the other sentinels to get them at least somewhat close to Carrier in terms of usefulness, but what I don’t understand is that the devs have made it very clear that their highest priority is the player experience and part of that is giving us all of the customization options we could ever want to enhance our own personal experience with the game. When a frame becomes overpowered and overused, it gets the nerf hammer. Period. This game is all about every piece of equipment getting its time in the spotlight and its chance to be someone’s favorite and most-used.  So why are we all stuck using Carrier Prime?

 

                My suggested fix for this problem is as simple as it gets, and gives us an entirely new level of customization to the sentinel system. Make every sentinel ability mod universal and usable by any sentinel. I honestly don’t see why this isn’t already part of the game. Now instead of having to choose between the most useful sentinel in the game and my favorite sentinel, (not going to name names or point out the uselessness of my favorite dragon-y sentinel) I could turn my favorite sentinel into the most useful one by throwing a Vacuum mod on the sentinel of my choice. We are not forced to simply use the Sweeper Prime on the Carrier Prime because that is what it came with. We are fortunate enough to have the choice of our favorite sentinel weapon and use it on any sentinel. So why am I still forced to use Carrier if I want the Vacuum ability on my sentinel?

 

                A friend of mine brought up a good problem with this idea. If Vacuum can just be used on any sentinel, then “Carrier” is no longer “Carrier” because any sentinel can become “Carrier”. This is very easily fixed. Just double the cost of all of the sentinel ability mods, and when they are used on their original sentinel, the cost is halved only for that sentinel. So for example, let’s say I want to put a Vacuum mod on my favorite sentinel. It would cost 14 mod space fully-ranked to place the mod on that sentinel (7 mod space cost in a Precept polarity slot). However, if I still want to use the original Carrier with its original Vacuum mod, it would cost the original 7 mod space fully-ranked (4 in the polarity slot). This also makes sense because if we found a way to take one sentinel’s ability and retrofit it into another, it would take more resources to make that ability work in a different sentinel, but at least we would have the freedom to make it work.

 

                In summary, in a game designed at its core to be all about the player experience and player choice, why are we all still stuck using Carrier Prime for the most useful sentinel experience? We should have the freedom to choose our favorite sentinel and make it our most useful sentinel experience. We are an advanced race of space ninjas yet we haven’t learned how to install the ability of one sentinel on another? Seems like we aren’t as advanced as we thought, Tenno. Let’s put an end to the Carrier Prime master race and have the freedom to choose our favorite sentinel and give it our favorite abilities.

 

Edit: The idea above was simply a working idea on a way to solve the Carrier master race problem in Warframe. However, some players have come up with a better way to solve the problem. Currently, I believe Pizzarugi's idea below is the best thus far:

 

 

I made this suggestion on another thread:

1. Make vacuum usable on all sentinels.
2. Give carrier the ability to "store" excess items you pick up, up to 100 of anything you collect. If you have full energy, using an ability will cause the carrier to drop an energy orb on you. If you reload 55 bullets into your soma prime, your carrier will drop 55 rifle bullets on you.

It is called carrier, so this new ability fits its name.

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by GhostFeng

[Xiusa]

Then that sort of defeats the purpose of having multiple sentinels anyway. Even with halving the cost on the "original" sentinel. Perhaps we can just make the other sentinels better than they are now people would consider them more than Carrier/Prime. I hardly use sentinels anyway because they're not good for damage and why bother with Carrier when I can walk over and do it myself.

[IceColdHawk]

We should have the freedom to choose our favorite sentinel and make it our most useful sentinel experience. 

You have the freedom. You're literally forcing yourself to pick the carrier ^^.

 

 

We are an advanced race of space ninjas yet we haven’t learned how to install the ability of one sentinel on another? 

For the same reason why you can't teach a dog how to fly.

[Misgenesis]

Its easy, you take a moment to think about the ability and realize its useless when you can pick stuff up yourself.

 

Really, ive yet to see a good argument for it. And no, convenience is not one of them.

[Lokime]

Meh. True is carrier will be used always, because we're lazy af. 

[[DE]Grzegorz]

   Make every sentinel ability mod universal and usable by any sentinel.

Stopped reading here just to write this response.

 

You know what that achieves? Everyone runs floating ballsack Prime with Diriga's attack precept if they care about the minuscule difference sentinel weapon makes.

 

Why? Because ballsack prime is simply the toughest mofo players have access to, only competing with Kubrows.

[GhostFeng]

Its easy, you take a moment to think about the ability and realize its useless when you can pick stuff up yourself.

 

Really, ive yet to see a good argument for it. And no, convenience is not one of them.

 

This v

Meh. True is carrier will be used always, because we're lazy af. 

 

I shouldn't have to mention all of the situations I've been in with different warframes, different builds, etc. where a key point of usefulness was having Carrier vacuum in all of the nearby health, energy, etc. that had been dropped so that all I had to worry about was the level 100 bombard right in front of me that I was going to need that health / energy in order to survive against. Not to mention how lazy we all know that we are and it's just simply easier to not have to go pick it up myself, much less more time-efficient. Also, good luck getting all that loot at the end of an intercept without Carrier. You missed the Crimson Dervish that dropped 5m over there? Woops.

Edited February 6, 2016 by GhostFeng

[GhostFeng]

There is no point to this, this would only make different sentinels useless, you would only have one, what would even be point in sentinels if mods would determen everything? Yes this would be goodbye to carrier master race, but then it would also be hello to vacuum master race.  Double cost is nothing you just forma it 1 more time and you are good to go. This whole thing just has no point. This is same as if you would be able to switch abilities between frames as you like, its only on bigger scale. Everyone would still be using vacuum, sentinels would become only skins for companions (with most players then using wyrm prime or carrier prime because of better stats). It would be way better to just buff all other sentinels abilities.

 

Carrier Prime master race = Vacuum master race. We already have this problem. At least my suggestion allows players to use which ever sentinel they want whether they all use Vacuum or not. That is the point. Freedom of choice. Having different sentinels that are useless is exactly the problem now and exactly why there is a Carrier Prime master race. Forma-ing 1 more time to solve the problem? Is that a bad thing? You've discovered a new way to make things work and now you have to apply an extra forma and re-level it to see it become viable? Sounds good to me.

[IceColdHawk]

Carrier Prime master race = Vacuum master race. We already have this problem. At least my suggestion allows players to use which ever sentinel they want whether they all use Vacuum or not. That is the point. Freedom of choice. Having different sentinels that are useless is exactly the problem now and exactly why there is a Carrier Prime master race. Forma-ing 1 more time to solve the problem? Is that a bad thing? You've discovered a new way to make things work and now you have to apply an extra forma and re-level it to see it become viable? Sounds good to me.

So, every sentinel can use every sentinel precept? So what does them make unique? Exactly nothing other than the shooting range, and that's the problem.

[Specific.Zod]

Simple and ez. Remove/remake/rename carrier into new sentinel, add vacuum ability to every sentinel.

[K0bra]

I have a way better idea. (But im honest i dont see any problem with the Carrier )

Lets do it this way all Warframes have implemented Vaccum and Carrier gets another ability.This would solve all "problems" (i dont see them) and people would switch between their kubrows and sentinels more often.

[Sygnano]

Its easy, you take a moment to think about the ability and realize its useless when you can pick stuff up yourself.

 

Really, ive yet to see a good argument for it. And no, convenience is not one of them.

 

except that convenience IS a good argument for it. Here's a quick schema i've done :

 

 

Multiply that by 300, and tell me how Vacuum is not better. It's not like your kubrow or any other Companions will be better anyway. So yes, convenience IS a good argument for it.

[Stormdragon]

So, if I understood, op wants to turn sentinels into skins with stats and kill variety, which might still making players use carrier prime (the tankiest sentinel afaik) with scanning, crowd dispersion, vacuum and any useful precepts without giving a reason to get out from carrier prime skin.

[Inmemoratus]

People being lazy is not a problem with the game's design.

[MythBringer]

Carrier vacuum ability just needs to become a passive ability on all companions! This way vacuum mod and its NEED is removed.

Carrier is revised/reviewed and gains another ability, for example "x %" more loot chance, or higher drop rate....

[GhostFeng]

I have a way better idea. (But im honest i dont see any problem with the Carrier )

Lets do it this way all Warframes have implemented Vaccum and Carrier gets another ability.This would solve all "problems" (i dont see them) and people would switch between their kubrows and sentinels more often.

 

Carrier vacuum ability just needs to become a passive ability on all companions! This way vacuum mod and its NEED is removed.

Carrier is revised/reviewed and gains another ability, for example "x %" more loot chance, or higher drop rate....

 

These ideas are a perfect fix to the problem. Everything has the Vacuum ability and all other sentinels and kubrows become immediately more useful. Fixes and buffs would still be necessary but at least the Carrier Prime master race would be a thing of the past.

 

 

So, if I understood, op wants to turn sentinels into skins with stats and kill variety, which might still making players use carrier prime (the tankiest sentinel afaik) with scanning, crowd dispersion, vacuum and any useful precepts without giving a reason to get out from carrier prime skin.

 

The first part of your statement is true. Sentinels would become "bodies" with different stats and we chose their abilities. Some people might keep their sentinels as they are because the stats and mods work best together. Some people might choose to mix and match as they please because we would now have the freedom to do so. I forgot to mention that a potential limitation to the system could be "one ability mod per sentinel" if using multiple ones per sentinel was deemed op or something. But honestly, as these guys have said, it might be easier just to give all companions innate vacuum. Then all other companions now benefit from an immediate boost in usefulness.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Who is lazy? I pick stuff up, I used carrier, didn't notice any reason to keep, and kept on going. I see why it's so hard to run over something in a video game, are you tiring you fingers out moving the character? I'm not saying he needs to be nerfed or removed, just don't understand the hype.

[(PSN)DeathDro]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned carriers usefulness when loot falls to an unreachable spot on the map or is behind a wall. This and straight up convenience are why I always use carrier. Though, Wyrm is much more useful for combat. I think the innate vacuum is a great idea. I seems kind of silly that a ninja from the future has to pick stuff up by hand especially when they know it'll be something they'll have to do a lot. That schema Sygnano put up, while hilarious, I think is a good reflection of how silly it is for a ninja to be running around picking stuff up especially when they have an important mission to finish. 

[CronosZX]

Let people be lazy all they want.

 

Meanwhile I love my DethCube shooting lazors everywhere.

 

Is it the most useful? No...well, damage wise, probably. It also stuns them for quite a while and anything can equip sweeper prime.

 

Why do I chose it over a Kubrow? Guardian thats it.

 

Also, I can't stand the way Ballsack and Ballsack prime looks. I love the way the murder cube looks.

I have to admit  that despite everything, for being Prime it has better stats. Give me a cube prime already.

 

 

Also the fact that carrier tends to pickup things when I dont want to.

 

Playing with your penta? Let me pick that rare sniper ammo when you have 29 out of 30 total ammo.

 

Playing Valkyr? Let me pick that energy when you have 297 out of 300.

Edited February 6, 2016 by CronosZX

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Making Vacuum a passive of all the sentinels and giving Carrier a new precept is the only true way to lessen the utility/convenience and the "master race" thing. 

[DSpite]

except that convenience IS a good argument for it. Here's a quick schema i've done :

 

 

Multiply that by 300, and tell me how Vacuum is not better. It's not like your kubrow or any other Companions will be better anyway. So yes, convenience IS a good argument for it.

 

In the first picture, you did not WASTE 150 Energy while running through the tile with a toggled ability, that's why.

 

And for your information, the pickup radius without vacuum is about 5-6 meters, which is quite large. If those Mods image radius were to scale, you would have picked them up regardless.

 

If I'm running Exalted Blade and I'm shooting stuff, I don't want to waste 24 Energy every tick simply because an Orb is within Vacuum range and gets pulled in instantly, I want to wait until I use 30 Energy and THEN run over it and get the full amount.

 

Vacuum is a crutch for starter players, it's training wheels. Once you get used to the game, you can play more efficiently without it.

Edited February 6, 2016 by DSpite

[[DE]Grzegorz]

The pickup range of Vacuum is exactly 10m, pickup radius for players is less than a meter.

 

It's not a crutch, nor training wheels.

 

It's a convenient necessity and a lifesaver in a game so focused on hoarding loot.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Mofixil

[Dedjal]

Carrier lets me do what I do best, kill stuff.

And the vacuum ability is actually not the only reason why I like the carrier, it is also its short attack range. It deals with immidiate threats and lets me handle long range combat.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Don't forget it can pick up stuff through floors and walls.

[Inmemoratus]

The pickup range of Vacuum is exactly 10m, pickup radius for players is less than a meter.

 

It's not a crutch, nor training wheels.

 

It's a convenient necessity and a lifesaver in a game so focused on hoarding loot.

 

No. It's not a necessity. I regularly play without a carrier and so do other people I know.

 

If you said the default pickup radius should be slightly buffed to like 1 meter, sure maybe I could agree. Because why not.

 

But no, Carrier is not a necessity.

 

One of the biggest things people are not acknowledging here is that the loot on the ground is largely irrelevant in this game. Most of the important things are in the mission completion drop tables. While there are mods and rare materials that you definitely need to pick up, the game highlights those so you don't miss them.

 

And in light of that, I would argue that LOOT RADAR is a much more beneficial utility than pickup radius. If I had to choose between them I would go with loot radar hands down.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Inmemoratus