Gabbynaru Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hey guys! So, something struck me while I was playing a survival mission today. How do survival missions make sense in a lore standpoint after The Second Dream? You know, before Second Dream, everyone was speculating that the Operator is inside the Warframe. Which is why Survivals made sense. Hey, we're in the suit, they're choking us out, makes sense we need some more oxygen. After the Second Dream reveal, survivals stopped making sense. We're literally in the Liset, which is full of oxygen, controlling our chosen Warframe from the safety of our "home". Even if the neural connection was as strong as to say the Tenno feels everything, their lungs still wouldn't implode on the Liset just because they can't feel air in the tower or wherever we're doing our missions, right? Or am I missing something in regards to that neural link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLucifer Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The Warframe is most likely also alive, as show when it reacted by itself to the shadow trying to kill you after getting stabbing with the "War". Edited February 8, 2016 by SaintLucifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcl_Blue Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I think the point you're missing is that the air is not for the Operators, it's for the Warframes. Now, why do the Warframes need air? Well, that we don't know yet. But, with the information that we have so far, it's safe to assume the Warframes themselves need that air, for one reason or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The infested are confused about warframes as we are of similar flesh. So our golems are some form of organic internally. And while some forms of infested are vacuum ready, our bodies are likely made more sleek and agile with the lack of extra life support systems. And thats whats included in archwing systems. Edited February 8, 2016 by Firetempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbynaru Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hm... Interesting. I never thought of the Warframes as organic beings. To me, they were always just a lot of metal put together in a good looking fashion and with great technologies inside. That really changes the perspective of things. However, for the moment, I will still remain under the belief that Warframes are made out of metal, and here's my points why: In regards with Lephantis' and Phorid's lines, comparing us to the infested, I personally believe that they're still talking about the Operator from back when DE didn't know where the Operator is (aka, the operator inside the warframe). I still think we need further proof or lore fixing from DE to confirm that they thought this far ahead when they released Phorid and Lephantis. As for the Warframe being alive... my interpretation of the Warframe moving on it's own in the Second Dream was just that the Operator, fearing for their life, managed to transcend the limitation of touching the Warframe for it's willpower to go through, and those strong emotions it displayed involuntarily made the Warframe react seemingly on it's own. For short, they made the Warframe move without having to touch it through sheer willpower, which is what I believe controls the Warframes anyway. Granted, these are my, maybe misguided takes on the lore, and I will not discount your understandings, for they make a lot of sense as well. Thank you for replying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcl_Blue Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Of course the Warframes are organic, man! Haven't you seen them bleeding? Particularly in that scene where they break War. That looks VERY organic to me. I still think we need further proof or lore fixing from DE to confirm that they thought this far ahead when they released Phorid and Lephantis. The new J3 Golem is recent enough that they would have definitely had The Second Dream in mind by the time he was released, and he says that line too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsword Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It only took until now for the Life Support thing to not make sense? What about Archwings, or the fact that you can be in a vacuum and take minimal (though constant) shield damage over the duration? Compared to the 'life support' bringing you to an inch of death in seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) However, for the moment, I will still remain under the belief that Warframes are made out of metal, and here's my points why: Read the Rhino Prime codex entry. I have cut its shell and eviscerated its brothers. It only took until now for the Life Support thing to not make sense? What about Archwings, or the fact that you can be in a vacuum and take minimal (though constant) shield damage over the duration? Compared to the 'life support' bringing you to an inch of death in seconds. You can wave that off to life support still being pumped into the breached room to give crew extra time to find emergency airlocks or fix the hole. Edited February 8, 2016 by Firetempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbynaru Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Oh, sorry, I didn't play the J3 golem raid, so I didn't know that. Kinda hard for a solo player. Once again, thank you for explaining! I shall play more attention to the codex from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It only took until now for the Life Support thing to not make sense? What about Archwings, or the fact that you can be in a vacuum and take minimal (though constant) shield damage over the duration? Compared to the 'life support' bringing you to an inch of death in seconds. archwings have built in life support. read the Mag Prime codex entry. the soldier describes his lungs being filled with air after being picked up by Mag in the vacuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DxAdder Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I have never understood how you could make a suit of battle armor and NOT have Life support built in. But the then the second dream comes along and now it makes even less sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) I have never understood how you could make a suit of battle armor and NOT have Life support built in. But the then the second dream comes along and now it makes even less sense. As living armor, maybe Mutilist techniques adding machines with living tissues seemed too much like the sentient problem they were dealing with. So they opted to make life support and other mechanical parts an external source. But we are also not sure how the original golems were created, so maybe they weaponized a creature created by a mistake. So not much intelligent design. Edited February 8, 2016 by Firetempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 After the ridiculous ending of 2nd Dream, when something no longer makes sense in this game, I disregard it... Just like the lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I have never understood how you could make a suit of battle armor and NOT have Life support built in. But the then the second dream comes along and now it makes even less sense. probably for the simple reasons of size and weight. adding a life support system to the frame needs space for the parts and oxygen tanks. if you lack the space you need the frames to be bigger or have awkward air tanks on their back or where ever the added size and the added weight would slow down the frames, makeing them easier to take out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosdreamer Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It's actually never made any sense just think about : Ennemy can cut oxygen... -They cut oxygen while they are nice enought to drop them for us when they die (Note they should drop them 100% of time since they're all equiped with) -They used to be some sort of God to stop oxygen in planets remember in earth survival after a while DE did find that it's was not logic at all -I know Lotus is some sort of good guy but.... How does she send us the oxygen pod withouth ? Find the logics please if anyone can explain how magic oxygen pod make there way -And last of my point After Operator/Tenno getting in the same trap of oxygen they could already make or use archwing unlimitted oxygen system... For me Survival should be just like defence , instead of protecting cryopod/target you get crazy ennemy waves and you have to defend your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackFox666 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 infested can live in space with no air and since our suits are basically half infested they also should not need air so no it doesnt make any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inmemoratus Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Well it's efficient to make the warframes function similarly to a living thing. It can eat and metabolize food (I mean look at Rhino Prime codex entry) and breathe oxygen. If it didn't work like that it would either need to burn fuel or be battery powered. I guess they could be nuclear powered instead. Then we'd need to keep a supply of plutonium. But DE went with some kind of technocyte squid that may or may not be a mutated human body, enslaved to be a proxy body by the Tenno operators. That would be too dark... right? >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 infested can live in space with no air and since our suits are basically half infested they also should not need air so no it doesnt make any sense They are mutilist half machine. And J3 is part spaceship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunniMao Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's actually never made any sense just think about : Ennemy can cut oxygen... -They cut oxygen while they are nice enought to drop them for us when they die (Note they should drop them 100% of time since they're all equiped with) -They used to be some sort of God to stop oxygen in planets remember in earth survival after a while DE did find that it's was not logic at all -I know Lotus is some sort of good guy but.... How does she send us the oxygen pod withouth ? Find the logics please if anyone can explain how magic oxygen pod make there way -And last of my point After Operator/Tenno getting in the same trap of oxygen they could already make or use archwing unlimitted oxygen system... For me Survival should be just like defence , instead of protecting cryopod/target you get crazy ennemy waves and you have to defend your team I personally think it is a shame most planet maps do not have a survival mode at all (I think the only exception might be Ceres). Playing survival on the same boring ship maps is.. well boring. And I agree with you totally. The lore / logic side blew out the window long ago anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Warframes are alive, done. Not sure if they are sentient. But they are certainly alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avereth Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It never made sense to me from a lore perspective because if you can pop an Archwing out every time you trip into a puddle on Uranus then surely you can put on a trollface and deploy it in survival from the start where you and the Lotus already know exactly what is going down. The only way I can justify it is by pretending that the other 'Tenno Operative' is a sort of specialist without a suit looting things while you distract them, and thus they need to believe that you are actually vulnerable to the life support shutting down. Without the life support perhaps a Warframe begins to lose operating efficiency, or if you go with the theory that it's made from similar stuff as the infested then it can't properly deal with it as some of the infested can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)dursereg Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 DE doesn't follow its own lore. So why would it matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosdreamer Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's actually never made any sense just think about : Ennemy can cut oxygen... -They cut oxygen while they are nice enought to drop them for us when they die (Note they should drop them 100% of time since they're all equiped with) -They used to be some sort of God to stop oxygen in planets remember in earth survival after a while DE did find that it's was not logic at all -I know Lotus is some sort of good guy but.... How does she send us the oxygen pod withouth ? Find the logics please if anyone can explain how magic oxygen pod make there way -And last of my point After Operator/Tenno getting in the same trap of oxygen they could already make or use archwing unlimitted oxygen system... For me Survival should be just like defence , instead of protecting cryopod/target you get crazy ennemy waves and you have to defend your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixsylvaris Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Heh, yes there could be some logic flawn in making ultimate weapon for space mission which requires oxygen, and being vulnerable to gas. But logic is inferior to gameplay. ;-) Another logic flawn: at this point lotus/operator should learn that "cut the life support" is favorite defense tactics, so just bring damm thing for yourself. ;-) Nevertheless survival missions are the best. From lore perspective: warframes seems to have own concious to some degree, each description tells that they have some kind of personality (like valkyr being angry) so leaving them behind would be bad. Also no way im goint to farm them againg. Edited February 9, 2016 by felixsylvaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Dargondarkfire Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Did they get rid of the old ember prime lore yext, where they talk about chilled en who came back from the void and the plans they had to turn them into soldiers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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