I think people are being a bit too harsh on Saryn

[BloodfireSouls]

Hello again, warframe forums.  I'm going to tread lightly today, because this topic seems to be creating a lot of arguments, so I'll TRY to stay neutral when talking about this, but honestly, it might be hard because I like the new saryn.  No guarantees.

So, I wanted to talk about Saryn today because I'd put off playing her for a while because I figured she had to be the next prime, which was in fact, correct.  So, I didn't get to experience the rework for a while.  After having played her now, though, I feel as if the arguments I've seen are a bit too aggressive.  I feel like people are being a bit too harsh on her.  In no way am I saying she's god tier, but also in no way am I saying she's trash.

The argument I've seen the most is that she can't kill high level armored enemies.  This argument seems invalid to me because she couldn't even do that before the rework, what makes this any different?  In my opinon, DE messed up things by trying to keep high damage potential on Miasma, but instead of instant feedback, its more drawn-out feedback, when on the other hand, the rest of her kit was clearly geared towards spreading debuffs to enemies.  In another thread about saryn I just read, people suggested adding a corrosive proc to Miasma, which I think is an incredible Idea, as it would help to further identify her as a debuff warframe, and would also create an opportunity to deal more damage with that armor getting stripped away, satisfying both parties.  Those who want to deal damage, AND those who want to play her in a team setting and debuff enemies.

Look, I'm not saying people are wrong when they say she's not good.  Everyone has their own opinions, but in the grand scheme of things, she isn't as bad as people make her out to be.  Yes, she still has problems, but they aren't problems that are so bad that you can't use her at all.

I've been using a tanky debuff build, making use of regenerative molt (that mod is incredible, I love it) and spreading viral and toxin procs with spores and toxic lash, and it works surprisingly well. 

I just think that people are giving her an excessive ammount of crap for not being able to do something she was never able to do in the first place.  I've seen the countless videos of people going into the simulacrum against a level 105 heavy gunner and yelling and screaming at how little she did to it, and tbh, even with the old saryn, you were never going to flat out kill that heavy gunner with miasma.  With the old Saryn, once Miasma fell off, you were completely useless.  (I may be wrong about that, I didn't know much about old saryn because I was young and stupid and played to what everyone else was using, so all I ever did was play miasma build)  At least with the new saryn, her other abilities become of some use, and aren't just buttons that you never press.

At the end of the day, its completely up to you to decide if you think Saryn is not good or whatever else you can think to call her, I just feel people are being too harsh on her.  Calling her "Trash" is far from the truth.  I think if you can learn to manage your expectations, and not expect her to destroy these enemies in no time flat, you won't be so upset with her.

As always, thanks for reading and taking the time out of your day to do so.  I appreciate it, and good luck farming for whatever you're after!

Edited March 1, 2016 by BloodfireSouls

[rawr1254]

Think the bigger problem most people have is with molts health. Her skillset can deal more damage with molt having less health but as it is now at higher levels it instadies so you can never get the full potential of the molts damage buff. Also energy costs are considerably higher for her 2/4 skills considering you have to cast them a lot.

[ClinkzEastwood]

New set of skills=different play style. Some people still keep the old play-style playing the new Saryn, which results in some hilariously bad Youtube videos saying the rework is a straigth nerf.

Other thing is while I won't say she's a hard frame to play, she's harder and different than all other frames in this game, which make her to be unpopular despite being very strong (equinox shares the same problem)

Also min maxers and rushers only like using certain setups while doing missions: Excal trin for Draco, Blind Mirage for interception, 4-frames setup for raid, Ember for any low level content. This makes Saryn to be less appealing.

Other people in the other hand like her because there are so many ways to build her you could talk about it for days.

[hukurokuju5]

Saryn's kit MECHANICS were never really changed much.  The power level of the skills was changed around, they added some other minor things, and thats about it.

so it was more of a "<sarcasm> rework </sarcasm>"

[phoenix1992]

I use the Toxic Lash with Contagion Cloud for full melee mayhem. It is absurdly fun.

[(PSN)martin576]

Yday I went to the Grineer sortie with Saryn and viral Torid. Man, she was very bad. Always out of energy because of 2-1-4, still very low damage. This frame is dead.

[(PSN)martin576]

"Other people in the other hand like her because there are so many ways to build her you could talk about it for days. "

 

Since she need str, range, effi and dura at the same time, I don't think there are "so many ways"...

[tnccs215]

yes, yes they are too harsh.

apparently, asking someone to use something slightly differently is a forbidden herculean task. I used her twice before the rework. Min maxed her, got a few kills, and forgot about her. Because she was boring. She was nothing more than an AoE damage dealer, with no scalability whatsoever, no support capability, nothing.

Now, I use her relatively commonly. She spreads toxin and viral procs like there is no tomorrow, does substantial damage, and is interesting to use. That's the thing. She was overpowered at lower-mid levels and nothing at higher. Now, she is powerful at lower levels, and reasonable at higher.

Of course she can't kill * one* level 105 corrupted bombard. She wasn't meant to in the first place. And her strength comes enemy numbers. I can safely say it's easier to kill 6 level 105 corrupted bombards with her than one.

I like saryn. She's fun, she's interesting. And she is not overpowered.

I can go a full mission doing nothing but popping spores, and even though it is also just one power, the fact that I actually have to work for it only make it funnier than old Miasma. The trick people use, the 2-1-4, is nothing but an emulation. She now demands time and work. And its so much funnier.

I'm terribly sorry for everyone that no longer can feel a power fantasy with her. Actually no, I'm not. Because she sold delivers out on a much funnier easy, and on a much less abusable one.

[YasaiTsume]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

"Other people in the other hand like her because there are so many ways to build her you could talk about it for days. "

 

Since she need str, range, effi and dura at the same time, I don't think there are "so many ways"...

No, there is actually vastly many ways to play her now. 

I shall list them off the top of my head.

1. Vanilla Saryn : Spreads Spores and Toxin, burns all enemies with her supercharged Miasma for a heavy burst nuke. 

2. Spread (Spore) Saryn : Ridiculous Power Range, some Strength, focuses on popping Spores with a good Status Weapon, and then watching enemies meltdown through 200 damage DoTs. (25% of Base Proc Damage will be added as Burst damage when it is used to pop a Spore) 

3. Heavy (Not so efficient) Spore Build that focuses on Spore Pop Damage : Grab a really sick and heavy damaging weapon, prime that Spore, Proc that critical Gas shot, and murder an entire mob with 1 Spore Burst that scales to yur weapon Proc damage. 

If "learn to play" Saryn is too harsh for people who can't change their minds, then maybe "discover Saryn" is what they should do.

Edited March 1, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[(PSN)martin576]

4 minutes ago, YasaiTsume said:

No, there is actually vastly many ways to play her now. 

I shall list them off the top of my head.

1. Vanilla Saryn : Spreads Spores and Toxin, burns all enemies with her supercharged Miasma for a heavy burst nuke. 

2. Spread (Spore) Saryn : Ridiculous Power Range, some Strength, focuses on popping Spores with a good Status Weapon, and then watching enemies meltdown through 200 damage DoTs. (25% of Base Proc Damage will be added as Burst damage when it is used to pop a Spore) 

3. Heavy (Not so efficient) Spore Build that focuses on Spore Pop Damage : Grab a really sick and heavy damaging weapon, prime that Spore, Proc that critical Gas shot, and murder an entire mob with 1 Spore Burst that scales to yur weapon Proc damage. 

If "learn to play" Saryn is too harsh for people who can't change their minds, then maybe "discover Saryn" is what they should do.

With "some" str you never melt down high level enemies.

[phoenix1992]

I really do not get why people rely on abilities alone to pull off stuns with frames. As I already stated - I use the melee build, which currently with the focus system wrecks immense quantity and quality of damage, and Toxic Lash which at max power is +85% damage and +90 damage reduction. This excludes the augment, miasma, channeling or other tricks that ups the damage to pretty ridiculous states.

Edited March 1, 2016 by phoenix1992

[Dextral]

I think shes good However she needs more mod space, or reduced cost. she doesn't compete at high damage at all anymore without team support(ev)

[(PSN)martin576]

3 minutes ago, Dextral said:

I think shes good However she needs more mod space, or reduced cost. she doesn't compete at high damage at all anymore without team support(ev)

You are absolutely right. If you go for a power build 2-1-4 you have to sacrifice effi, and then you need a Trinity following you everywhere.

[Revel72]

For Saryn: "Look at them mustering forces in days. Now look at them crumble. With in few seconds... From within"

[hanross]

3 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

New set of skills=different play style. Some people still keep the old play-style playing the new Saryn, which results in some hilariously bad Youtube videos saying the rework is a straigth nerf.

Other thing is while I won't say she's a hard frame to play, she's harder and different than all other frames in this game, which make her to be unpopular despite being very strong (equinox shares the same problem)

Also min maxers and rushers only like using certain setups while doing missions: Excal trin for Draco, Blind Mirage for interception, 4-frames setup for raid, Ember for any low level content. This makes Saryn to be less appealing.

Other people in the other hand like her because there are so many ways to build her you could talk about it for days.

now he is joking , saryn was a master race before even she was better at 145% power strength to kill T3 enimies by just casting the skill and now at 212% strength enimies even can not stunned so her skills doesn't matter now cause she is now baby saryn , while diffrent play styles we don't have so much slots for put all mods on which saryn's power depends so there is no other thing to say about saryn : She is actually nerfed and so on saryn prime is junk junk and junk cause now it doen't matter she is prime or not she will never like she was before and now for god sake from now on please stop keep saying that DE reworked this cause We can actually replace the word rework with NERF in DE's dictionary and for examples list is : mesa rework(I hated de most for this) , mag rework , saryn rework , rework on synoid gammacore an.....d the list is still going on cause ash and mirage's topics(actually junk topic got replies 10 pages AMAZING!!!) are already on forum

[----Fenrir----]

No, people are not too harsh. Saryn is a comparatively bad frame. She is worse than Banshee and Banshee is already a frame almost no one plays (according to DE's statistics one of the least played frames in the game).

Saryn spends most of her time using low DPS weapons like Hikou Prime or Ignis to spread her spores which do not do much either. Time frames like Rhino or Nova for example can use to do some actual damage and killing after using their abilities (Roar and Molecular Prime).

In most cases there is barely any noticeable difference between a Saryn in your team doing her stuff or just being afk. That's how useful Saryn is^^

Edited March 1, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[hanross]

Just now, ----Fenrir---- said:

No, people are not to harsh. Saryn is a comparatively bad frame. She is worse than Banshee and Banshee is already a frame almost no one plays (according to DE's statistics one of the least played frames in the game). Saryn spends most of her time using low DPS weapons like Hikou Prime or Ignis to spread her spores which do not do much either. Time frames like Rhino or Nova for example can use to do some actual damage and killing after using their abilities (Roar and Molecular Prime).

In most cases there is barely any noticeable difference between a Saryn in your team doing her stuff or just being afk. That's how useful Saryn is^^

love u for so nice comment I m happy someone is telling truth like me

[Dextral]

Just now, hanross said:

love u for so nice comment I m happy someone is telling truth like me

 She is useful and does high damage, however its unsustainable without a EV trin
 

[MegatronG1]

I'd have to agree on the energy problem when you want to use your ultimate after your spores have been set, but alternatively this can probably be offset with a Fully ranked Arcane Energize on your helmet and Syandana for that 200 energy pick up per proc instead of bringing a EV trinity.

Edited March 1, 2016 by MegatronG1

[hanross]

1 minute ago, Dextral said:

 She is useful and does high damage, however its unsustainable without a EV trin
 

now that's the point before she was strong and WITHOUT ev trin even she was not prime

[Standin.NopeNopeNope]

She can do a lot of damage, but heavily reliant on energy, thats why zenurik comes in, she does great on def mission, including void, yes void.

[Yaerion]

I Smoke Screened several offtopic replies.

Be respectful of other opinions, Tenno, and be mature for a high quality discussion.

Thank you, sorry for the interruption. Please do not answer to this reply and focus on the topic raised by the OP.

[ClinkzEastwood]

9 minutes ago, hanross said:

now that's the point before she was strong and WITHOUT ev trin even she was not prime

I play Saryn daily and I've never need or care about EV Trin

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[IceColdHawk]

4 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

New set of skills=different play style. Some people still keep the old play-style playing the new Saryn, which results in some hilariously bad Youtube videos saying the rework is a straigth nerf.

You are assuming everyone keeps playing "press 4 to win" thus they say saryn is bad. But that's just wrong.

Edited March 1, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[ClinkzEastwood]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

You are assuming everyone keeps playing "press 4 to win" thus saying saryn is bad. But that's just wrong.

You aware that the post I quoted was talking about how "bad" her 4 is?