How to Balance Shadow Step But Keep it Interesting

[DiabolusUrsus]

As an avid user of the passive, even I can admit that it's a little ridiculous now that we have Blood Rush and Body Count. Free, infinite invisibility that isn't canceled by Nullifiers. Not even Loki has that. 

Is it really nice to have for playing solo? Yes. Does that make it acceptable? No. 
It's still really cheap, and fighting enemies that don't even try to fight back gets boring very quickly.

My suggestion is this:

Instead of granting invisibility, Shadow Step greatly reduces enemy accuracy, and reduces detection range on un-alerted enemies.

It will still boost the ease of survival by a great deal, and it will still be useful for Warframes without dedicated stealth abilities. It will not still render enemies essentially helpless, and there will be no reason for it to get canceled by Nullifier auras. 

What do you think? 

[phoenix1992]

Grr....
No. 
Because, this is starting to get out of hand. Shadowstep is the only mechanic in game that allow that with such ease.  And i don't know what it this bodycount you speak off - Some players were able to stay in Shadowstep for a long periods of time, with the use of milti hit weapons (so now I must get nerfed, becuse some players overdo it?!) 
I also want to put couple of reasons why not to do that :
A Shadowstep is strong in survival, but on the other mods it is just not the best Focus to have.
Arcane Trickery (No really - check it out).
Loki and Ivara - They are not getting an drop on the usage due to Shadwostep. If you use Loki for survival, it is your choice, but please do not justify another nerf, just because you do not think it is fair. Too many frames are not fair and weapons are not "fair", but End Game should be something. We worked to get to here, maybe enjoy the fruits of our work so far? 

Maybe gate it higher. Make no mistake, this will burn me too, since I am not farming Naramon for some time, but I would prefer that, instead of flat out nerf just for the sake of nerfing.

Edited March 8, 2016 by phoenix1992

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

Grr....
No. 
Because, this is starting to get one of hand. Shadowstep is the only mechanic in game that allow that with such ease.  And i don't know what it this bodycount you speak off - Some players were able to stay in Shadowstep for a long periods of time, with the use of milti hit weapons (so now I must get nerfed, becuse some players overdo it?!) 

How is this starting to get out of hand? Warframe powers and ridiculousness have been out-of-hand for a long time now.

Players are not able to stay in Shadow Step for an extended period of time because of multi-hit weapons... they are able to stay in it practically indefinitely because of two Shadow Debt event mods:

Blood Rush, which adds a stacking bonus to critical chance that scales with the combo multiplier, and

Body Count, which adds 12 seconds to the combo multiplier.

This allows many melee weapons to red-crit. That means Shadow Step is guaranteed to trigger on every hit, and with permanent invisibility enemies cannot fight back unless they have teammates to shoot at, and accidentally hit you. 

So why is it that I'm suggesting a nerf to Shadow Step, and not Blood Rush/Body Count? Because those mods are the only things that allow for melee DPS to compete with firearms in some cases, and even then melee weapons are typically overshadowed. 

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

A Shadowstep is strong in survival, but on the other mods it is just not the best Focus to have.

Nope. Sure, if you're running a game mode where you need to defend an objective you'd run into problems if everyone on your team were to be running some form of invisibility, but having the freedom to stroll around the map at almost no risk dealing increased damage without fear of retaliation is invaluable. The invisibility also comes in handy when resurrecting allies or hacking terminals. 

Sure, if you're playing a caster Zenurik's Energy Overflow is useful to the point of broken, and if you're at especially high levels Vazarin's New Moon is handy to have... but there's no real way to compare which of those abilities are 'best.' It is entirely dependent on playstyle and Warframe choice. 

12 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Arcane Trickery (No really - check it out).

Nope. That's a 10% chance at max rank, and then you need some way of opening enemies that aren't attacking you to finishers. Shadow Step is guaranteed to be useful to any Warframe with a weapon optimized for critical hits. 

14 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Loki and Ivara - They are not getting an drop on the usage due to Shadwostep. If you use Loki for survival, it is your chose, but please do not justify another nerf, just because you do not think it is fair. Too many frames are not fair and weapons are not "fair", but End Game should be something. We worked to get to here, maybe enjoy the fruits of our work so far? 

You're missing the point. I'm not concerned about how often Loki or Ivara are being used. I used Loki as an example as a Warframe that is fairly broken in terms of power, and Shadow Step is even more broken than Loki is. I agree that End Game should be something. It should be something more engaging than beating up on overleveled enemies while they can't fight back because their damage is scaled so high that their attacks mean instant death. Whether they're not attacking because they can't detect you or they're completely helpless under effectively permanent CC effects doesn't matter. At that point they are no longer enemies. They are loot bags. I'd like to at least be able to play the game under the illusion that we're not all just in it for the loot. 

18 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Maybe gate it higher. Make no mistake, this will burn me too, since I am not farming Naramon for some time, but I would prefer that, instead of flat out nerf just for the sake of nerfing.

And that's where you're wrong. Making something more grindy doesn't make it more balanced, nor does it prevent broken abilities like Shadow Step from making the game boring. It's not a nerf for the sake of nerfing. That would run against the entire point of a nerf in the first place. Nerfs like this are meant to keep the game engaging to play, and make it so that BS units like Shock Eximi, Comba/Scrambus units, etc. are not necessary for presenting us with a "challenge." 

It is still perfectly possible to feel powerful in a balanced game. When things are balanced, feelings of power even tend to be more rewarding. 

[phoenix1992]

I already told you that not all players use crit builds. And I am not the only person to do that. You found an over abuse, and over abuse it - let's all take an dive.
I can compete with any firearm on DPS scale, without the use of those mods, maybe do not act like you know how I use my melee and how long they are able to push the fight.
Please tell me how being invisible works out while being in defensive mission. Or how you need it during fast runs. Take your time.

TLDR on your post (I did not quote it, so we can avoid wall of texts, okay?) : You want Shadowstep nerfed, so Bloodrush and Bodycount won't get nerfed. This seems rather... nasty. They may decide not nerfing, De may decide to change how Naramon works, but flat out nerf on Shadowstep just so you can keep on using Crit melee builds is not game okay. It is pushing another stupid meta.  
 

[DiabolusUrsus]

Yet it is specifically the crit builds that are causing the problem. 10 seconds of invisibility on anything that isn't a crit build isn't going to contribute anything significant to your ability to survive.

Without crits, no, you cannot compete with firearms on the DPS scale. The best melee weapons cap out and 2, maybe 3,000 DPS with the best damage-dealing loadouts when you don't build for crit. When you do build for crit... they can exceed 20,000 DPS with ease. I'm not saying melee is completely ineffective without building for crit - I used non-crit builds almost exclusively before Shadow Debt let me go higher and did rather well for myself. I'm not claiming to speak for how you use your melee weapons... I'm talking hard numbers that you can't actually argue with. Blood Rush and Body Count allow melee weapons to have DPS comparable to many firearms. 

As I already pointed out... provided you have a team, invisibility is extremely useful as a support ability. If we're talking fast runs, then Focus in general is out of the picture given that it has an almost 4 minute cooldown with a single passive enabled. 

19 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

You want Shadowstep nerfed, so Bloodrush and Bodycount won't get nerfed. This seems rather... nasty. They may decide not nerfing, De may decide to change how Naramon works, but flat out nerf on Shadowstep just so you can keep on using Crit melee builds is not game okay. It is pushing another stupid meta. 

No, you really don't understand where I'm coming from. I want Blood Rush to get nerfed too... just not right now. It doesn't actually do anything gamebreaking or significant. The DPS it provides players is nothing new; we've been dealing that much damage with guns for ages, and there are firearms that still out-DPS melee weapons by miles. I find the crit meta to be disgusting. That doesn't make me blind to the fact that Blood Rush + Body Count has made a large number of weapons more attractive, and helped make melee combat as a whole much more viable. 

Simply put... while Blood Rush + Body Count have hurt build diversity, they have helped weapon diversity immensely, and that is distinctly anti-meta. 

I want Shadow Step nerfed because it is game-breaking on an unprecedented level, and having access to that sort of power is only going to make the end-game more monotonous, the enemies more full of BS in an attempt to counter it, and raise the chances of us getting any number of poorly-considered and rushed changes from DE as they scramble to balance things. 

If that still doesn't make sense to you... Blood Rush and Body Count are not overpowered relative to the rest of the game. Shadow Step is.

Thus, we should hold off on nerfing Blood Rush and Body Count until DE is ready to address the issue of player damage relative to the non-endless Star Chart and focus on things that are an immediate issue. 

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by DiabolusUrsus

[PikeOrShield]

12 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I already told you that not all players use crit builds. And I am not the only person to do that. You found an over abuse, and over abuse it - let's all take an dive.
I can compete with any firearm on DPS scale, without the use of those mods, maybe do not act like you know how I use my melee and how long they are able to push the fight.
Please tell me how being invisible works out while being in defensive mission. Or how you need it during fast runs. Take your time.

TLDR on your post (I did not quote it, so we can avoid wall of texts, okay?) : You want Shadowstep nerfed, so Bloodrush and Bodycount won't get nerfed. This seems rather... nasty. They may decide not nerfing, De may decide to change how Naramon works, but flat out nerf on Shadowstep just so you can keep on using Crit melee builds is not game okay. It is pushing another stupid meta.  
 

Your TL;DR is wrong.  He never said he wanted shadowstep nerfed so blood rush and body count don't get nerfed.  He wants it nerfed because it's super broken on crit builds.  You brought up that not everyone uses crit builds... but who in their right mind would use Naramon on a non-crit melee build!?  That's like using Zenurik on a non-caster build.  It's a waste since they don't complement each other.  Invisibility also works really well in defense since enemies do not have infinite range; if you are invisible and you kill them before they get near the defense point, then you can just cheese the whole mission.

[Naftal]

Maybe make Shadow Step invisibility clear when you hit something. Right after the hit so you still get stealth multiplier. After hitting something, the invisibility should be disabled for 1-2 seconds and then reapplied if it has any duration left.

This way it does the "shadow step" job. Which allows you to switch locations unseen, but won't make you invisible all the time while killing things.

[phoenix1992]

I am sorry but I am going to argue about your DPS chart. 
While it is generally true that one hand swords and most specialized weapons do count in low DPS, this is actually "stance and implementation" issue. This is maybe I can't see eye to eye with many players on the melee.  I never did bother to use weapons with small and tiny hit areas, since this makes them... useless? Last resort? 
No. I use melees that do "multihit", and by multihit, we are talking about "10+ mobs in one swing". That 800 (rounded down, not in game ATM) damage, on one mob does not seem that bad when you do it into AoE, does it? Add Berserker and how it speeds up all weapons - You double the DPS just by having that mod and triple it by having the right stance. Arcane Fury is also there, but this is far too end game for it to be usable to the avarage Joe.
You see in the end, I do not mind small melee having to resolve to crit builds. It actually (for me) is more fair this way. I always did use AoE melee, now weapons with smaller hit range are okay  - so now they can compete? Shadowstep is an by product, that should not be broken due to that.

[ShortCat]

15 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Players are not able to stay in Shadow Step for an extended period of time because of multi-hit weapons... they are able to stay in it practically indefinitely because of two Shadow Debt event mods:

Here I have to disagree. It was easy enough to stay invisible even before those mods, now it is just trivial.

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I already told you that not all players use crit builds...

Just take a look at the most used melee weapons atm, or just at top weapons in every category: all of them have elevated crit stats.

• Swords: Broken War 15%; Dakra Prime 15%; Prisma Skana 20%
• Heavy Blades: Galatine 10%, Scindo P & War 20%
• Nikanas: D Nikana 15%, Nikana P 20%
• Scythes: all of them 20%
• Dual Swords: P Dual Clevers, Dual Zoren, Dual Ichor 25%, Dual Raza 20%, Dual Kama P 15%
• Others: Mios 15%, Destreza 20%, Jet Kitty 15%, Orthos P 10%

Most of them are valuable for Shadow Step even without Body Count and Blood Rush.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

5 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I am sorry but I am going to argue about your DPS chart. 

Spoiler

Weapon built for 'anti-mob' range without factoring in crits

Same weapon, built for crit and factoring crits in.

[Epsik-kun]

I am strongly against any nerfs of Shadow Step. The only mission it can be considered actually "OP" is solo survival. And even on solo survival its effect is limited to extra 20%~30% of time you'll be able to stay due to inevitable damage fall-off.

In every other mission Shadow Step isn't OP by any means. however it enables you to use extremely specific builds that simply won't work without Shadow Step. And while these builds are powerful and effective, they have major draw-backs and are really well balanced as they are. These builds bring a lot of melee building diversity and have their own unique feeling going to them.
Your suggestion will murder all these builds while effectively pursuing the target of nerfing the most effective way to do solo survival. It's a bad idea.

[phoenix1992]

I also want to expand and add an resole on the Shadowstep issue.
I was one of the first persons that did field tests on Shadowstep. It is not as strong as people think it is. It is an life savoir and distraction, but the main issue with it is something that is already hilarious with melee weapons - all of them are silent.  If they were not silent, this topic would not exist, due to the fact that the invisibility could be used only by Loki, silent weapons or by weapons with Silent mod (please tell me how heavy blades and slam attacks are silent). 
I really wish this would be my final statement on the topic : It is good that people care and that De added mods for low range weapons. It is bad that they never did implement them in more equalizing way. Now we stay in the same issue as with drain - while Ember (she is my main), Valky and Excalibro needed such kind of a nerf, many other drain frames did not need to be even weaker. Let's deal with the culprits, instead of nerfing everything.

PS : I am honestly surprised, that you did not factor in Elemental and Status mods - this is the only way I do anti mobs builds. I promise that when I get home, I will add my builds, even though I know in general how I do them, it will not be 100%.  Also primed reach. Really those builds make me feel strange while looking at them. And then Again, the builder does not take in effect arcanes (never found them in there), multihits, Berserker, and the reach/combos of the stances. I can always whip out an "boast" end game screenshot with Ember melee build, but it won't matter, would it?

Edited March 8, 2016 by phoenix1992
Man that builder needs an big update. It flat out ignores many things.

[DiabolusUrsus]

6 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I am strongly against any nerfs of Shadow Step. The only mission it can be considered actually "OP" is solo survival. And even on solo survival its effect is limited to extra 20%~30% of time you'll be able to stay due to inevitable damage fall-off.

In every other mission Shadow Step isn't OP by any means. however it enables you to use extremely specific builds that simply won't work without Shadow Step. And while these builds are powerful and effective, they have major draw-backs and are really well balanced as they are. These builds bring a lot of melee building diversity and have their own unique feeling going to them.
Your suggestion will murder all these builds while effectively pursuing the target of nerfing the most effective way to do solo survival. It's a bad idea.

Would you care to elaborate on all these builds that supposedly require Shadow Step to function? The way I see it, it is a survival boost to any build (and by that I mean not getting killed, not the gametype.)

Survival is the only game mode where it is OP?

Exterminate - Enemies can't fight back.
Excavation - Enemies can't fight back.
Deception - Enemies can't fight back.
Spy - Enemies can't fight back. 

You see where I'm going with this. Sure, it doesn't really help the player's ability to complete objectives like say, Excavation... but that's when you are only taking Solo players into account. When playing on a team free, impossible-to-cancel, effectively infinite invisibility is obscenely useful in most scenarios. 

The best part is, it can make highly-durable Warframes improved version of Loki without the glass-cannon hitch.

How is that in any way not generally OP? 

[AKKILLA]

2 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

 Not even Loki has that. 

Since when was Loki important?

BTW Ashs Smoke Shadow and Arcane Trickery offer Invisibility that cannot be broken by Nullifiers/Stalker/Zanuka Hunter

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 minute ago, AKKILLA said:

Since when was Loki important?

BTW Ashs Smoke Shadow and Arcane Trickery offer Invisibility that cannot be broken by Nullifiers/Stalker/Zanuka Hunter

K, but are they possible to maintain continuously with a 100% guarantee? No? That's my point. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by DiabolusUrsus
Improved clarity and specificity.

[AKKILLA]

Just now, DiabolusUrsus said:

K, but are they possible to maintain continuously? No? That's my point. 

You are terribly wrong, I can maintain Trickery basically the entire mission if not I can refresh My invis by using Trickery+Smoke Screen combo (20+18.56) 

Right I forget this community is still ignorant and only check out Mogamu tutorials to help them with their builds, sorry I will leave this place isnt for Me.

Wait a second... My Clans name is SCHOOL OF SHADOW STEP???

Its only right I said something about the focus passive we based our clan off of

[phoenix1992]

I

2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Would you care to elaborate on all these builds that supposedly require Shadow Step to function? The way I see it, it is a survival boost to any build (and by that I mean not getting killed, not the gametype.)

Survival is the only game mode where it is OP?

Exterminate - Enemies can't fight back.
Excavation - Enemies can't fight back.
Deception - Enemies can't fight back.
Spy - Enemies can't fight back. 

You see where I'm going with this. Sure, it doesn't really help the player's ability to complete objectives like say, Excavation... but that's when you are only taking Solo players into account. When playing on a team free, impossible-to-cancel, effectively infinite invisibility is obscenely useful in most scenarios. 

The best part is, it can make highly-durable Warframes improved version of Loki without the glass-cannon hitch.

How is that in any way not generally OP? 

I am sorry but this is not efficient way of thinking. 
Excavation is variation of the defense game - CC will beat 9 out of 10 times being invisibro.
Eterminate - The point is to kill everything, you can usually do that in 5 mins tops. Not worthy to fire up naramon or any focus for that.
Deception - Get in fast, drop it and get out - again really fast run.
Spy - Ninja frames > Naramon when it comes to spy. It is another ordeal to $&*^ around with Loki and skip traps all together.

Please, do not use all rounder frames. They tend to fail miserably at certain point.\

[Cephalon_Ordis]

as the only thing really keeping my squishy frames alive, i'd prefer it stays the way it is. 

[AKKILLA]

10 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I

I am sorry but this is not efficient way of thinking. 
Excavation is variation of the defense game - CC will beat 9 out of 10 times being invisibro.
Eterminate - The point is to kill everything, you can usually do that in 5 mins tops. Not worthy to fire up naramon or any focus for that.
Deception - Get in fast, drop it and get out - again really fast run.
Spy - Ninja frames > Naramon when it comes to spy. It is another ordeal to $&*^ around with Loki and skip traps all together.

Please, do not use all rounder frames. They tend to fail miserably at certain point.\

I agree with most of Your points here

Shadow Step is only useful if Your running either survival interceptions or anything you are running for a long period of time.

A Capture mission would be pointless to compare shadow step too. Any other mission for that matter will be pointless as well. This only allows survivability in Higher levels ofcoarse, and making melee a viable choice.

Aside from that Shadow Step isnt GOD mode, Corpus fields will still take me down while in it

[DJ_Vauban]

How about instead of nerfing everything, we bring the other focus trees up to par? I used to use Unairu before switching over to Naramon, there is like nothing in that tree that is remotely as powerful as shadow step, now I actually feel rewarded for starting over in Naramon since I actually got something of value now <w< I have always wanted something that helps me be less squishy when I go melee only without having to use an easymode frame, looking at you Valkyr and Loki..

I don't really know about the other trees but it's always shadow step that I hear about, so yeah...buff the other trees instead of nerfing shadow step <w<

[phoenix1992]

The more I read the thread, the more I get... furious. 
Did you field test other builds or various types of weapons and arcanes?
Do you use only one builder, that Is not "okay" in any way?
Are you aware, how freakishly strong melee combat was before bloodrush and bodycount?  Do you know that many players would prefer to drag fodder frame, primary and secondary, but not fodder melee?
Do you realize that Shadowstep is strong, but it is worth 0 points at end Game content? Even Madurai outclasses it when it comes down to brute numbers and sheer force. 
I am okay with the game changing - it is dynamic process, and IT should be okay to do changes. I am not okay when people want changes, based on something that simply does not work how they think.

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, DJ_Vauban said:

How about instead of nerfing everything, we bring the other focus trees up to par? I used to use Unairu before switching over to Naramon, there is like nothing in that tree that is remotely as powerful as shadow step, now I actually feel rewarded for starting over in Naramon since I actually got something of value now <w< I have always wanted something that helps me be less squishy when I go melee only without having to use an easymode frame, looking at you Valkyr and Loki..

I don't really know about the other trees but it's always shadow step that I hear about, so yeah...buff the other trees instead of nerfing shadow step <w<

GOD BLESS YOU DJ VAUBAN 

I may need you to attend My sons 4th Bday please bring Your 1s and 2s and bring Your Bounce Augment please BOUNCE HOUSE lol jk

Its always Shadow Step. Why Shadow Step? Are ppl mad when they dont have stuff? You want a Naramon Lens? Ill gift you some OP 

[p3z1]

Sure, let's nerf shadow step. But first, get these done:

- rebalance bursas (again), because low level and/or new players are getting screwed by these guys

- rebalance scaling in general, because enemy scaling is broken

- rebalance weapons and mods, since only a few weapons are worthy of eating forma

- rebalance procs, because some are more useless than others

- rebalance focus, because naramon and zenurik (to some extent, madurai) are the only useful focus trees IMO

- rebalance sorties, because rewards =/= difficulty

- make snipers feel good in warframe, because bows are better most of the time (emphasizing that, because snipers have their own sues, albeit minimal)

- rebalance some frames, because some are less useful (zephyr) compared to others (loki)

When those are done, return to this thread.

tl;dr (as necessary), balance the game first before nerfing band-aids (yes, I called shadow step a band-aid)

[clemza]

I agree, it's a bit too much compared to the other focus.

Nerf or Other focus rework will happen for sure. (like unairu medusa "skin" 'touch' that should work like shadow step)

Edited March 8, 2016 by clemza

[Epsik-kun]

42 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Would you care to elaborate on all these builds that supposedly require Shadow Step to function? The way I see it, it is a survival boost to any build (and by that I mean not getting killed, not the gametype.)

Survival is the only game mode where it is OP?

Exterminate - Enemies can't fight back.
Excavation - Enemies can't fight back.
Deception - Enemies can't fight back.
Spy - Enemies can't fight back. 

You see where I'm going with this. Sure, it doesn't really help the player's ability to complete objectives like say, Excavation... but that's when you are only taking Solo players into account. When playing on a team free, impossible-to-cancel, effectively infinite invisibility is obscenely useful in most scenarios. 

The best part is, it can make highly-durable Warframes improved version of Loki without the glass-cannon hitch.

How is that in any way not generally OP? 

All-out late-game (enemy level 70+) melee on previously non melee frames like Nova or Nyx by making them able to go into actual constant close combat without being immediately one-shotted due to having no ways of achieving necessary levels of survivability. Shadow Step also makes Life Strike much less of a mandatory mod on an all-out melee frame, due to reducing constant incoming damage into relatively small collateral damage (mostly AoE and crossfire) allowing swapping to Furis or other sources of healing suffice.

Draw backs are still there, as while you are using not so sturdy frame, you will make mistakes from time to time and get yourself killed. It won't make you immortal - the more you try to profit from Shadow Step the more vulnerable you become.

And, yes, Survival is the only game mode where Shadow Step is OP.

Exterminate, Deception and Spy will be completed long time before your Naramon Focus will even finish cooling down. Even if Focus were available right away, it only would be relatively strong in Spy as a source of invisibility which trivialises several Spy rooms. Extermination is an extremely easy mission as it is, as even T4E can be done on an unranked frame using non potatoed primary. Deception isn't a mission at all. You don't need anything in that mission, you just skip every enemy, complete objective and run to the extraction. Even if I were to have access to Naramon right away, I wouldn't bother to waste my time by actually using it and hitting stuff.

This leaves us with Excavation, which is really about CC or drawing aggro. Naramon provides no CC and makes you lose aggro - you don't want that. Solo Excavation (how hideous) or not, Excavators will become paper-thin much faster than frames will - Naramon gives you a way to dive into an enemy crowd, but doesn't provide any ways of protecting Excavators.

High-durability warframes tend to not need Shadow Step because it doesn't change much for them. I would make an exception for Excal and Valkyr, but that's due to different reasons: Valkyr rarely needs the actual invisibility, however Naramon's critical chance boost is very strong on Hysteria, Excal on the other hand really shines in a very high level content (enemy level 100+ with damage boost) and on that content he can't be considered a "durable" frame because he get's one-shotted by a half of the enemies.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Epsik-kun