Independent Warframes?

[Megakruemel]

Clem

           -Clem

[Icpmcp]

Because the Warframe pulled War out of his chest and broke it when its Operator was in no state to control it (?)

[Genitive]

6 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Not the Shadow Debt? :(

I don't remember. What exactly you have in mind?

[skelo0]

2 minutes ago, Grimlock84 said:

Ah yes because power cells don't exist whatsoever in this world. only thing that could possibly ever power a warframe is magic childrens.

This theory of yours also puts any possible self doubt the stalker had with his own exisence as a joke

The warframe is powered by the raw void energy of the operator and the warframe is the "lense" he takes the raw void energy of the operator and "focuses" it into powers.

[Grimlock84]

Just now, Icpmcp said:

Because the Warframe pulled War out of his chest and broke it when its Operator was in no state to control it (?)

The warframes themselves show extremely limited animal like intelligence with limited powers.

During that scene the warframe didnt get up to fight off the stalker or save the operator. it simply wanted to not be stabbed and breaking the sword just happened to make the stalker leave.

 

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Genitive said:

I don't remember. What exactly you have in mind?

Just watch it on youtube, I don't specifically remember what happens, but I do remember that it dos slightly support that they can have minds of their own. (Even though they're following someone else)

[Leavith]

I did make kind of theory on this feel free to check it out is based on the theory warframe are also asleep( is an old theory I made a while back just decided to updated it) 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/609887-wake-up-warframe-a-lore-theory-spoilers-for-2nd-dream/

Edited March 16, 2016 by Leavith

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, skelo0 said:

The warframe is powered by the raw void energy of the operator and the warframe is the "lense" he takes the raw void energy of the operator and "focuses" it into powers.

Ok. I am very, very curious. Not, like, irritated, or anything, just intensely curious.

 

How the hell did you do the Second Dream quest and conclude that the Tenno has no control over the Warframes, is not the pilot at all, is purely the battery, and literally all the agency and decision making rests in the Warframes?

[Grimlock84]

Just now, skelo0 said:

The warframe is powered by the raw void energy of the operator and the warframe is the "lense" he takes the raw void energy of the operator and "focuses" it into powers.

The void keys are more then powerful enough and Orokins were never in dire need of a better power source. If warframes only needed power sources they couldve easily came up with more ways to pwer them And if operators werent in control of them orokin wouldnt just leave teh super powerful suits running around doing whatever they wanted (Sentients 2.0 basically). If the operators wern't controlling the suits then the Orokin would be

[skelo0]

4 minutes ago, Grimlock84 said:

The void keys are more then powerful enough and Orokins were never in dire need of a better power source. If warframes only needed power sources they couldve easily came up with more ways to pwer them And if operators werent in control of them orokin wouldnt just leave teh super powerful suits running around doing whatever they wanted (Sentients 2.0 basically). If the operators wern't controlling the suits then the Orokin would be

The warframe are sentient and loyal to the orokin

[CriticalFumble]

5 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Not the Shadow Debt? :(

The "Breaking War" scene is a much better argument.  The fact that its a frame that you know isn't linked to anyone but yourself, and moves without showing a link-up effect is fairly compelling.  It seems clear that they can do some things independently, but without a mind they react with the intelligence level of simple organisms. 

And because you keep bringing up Shadow Debt, here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Operation:_Shadow_Debt

Its a link to the wiki article, scroll down to the acolytes and click them to open their pages where the dialogue is.  Tell me which one of these actually says anything that supports your idea, because I can't find one. 

Also,

Stay AWAY from the fire!

    -The Lotus

[Grimlock84]

2 minutes ago, skelo0 said:

The warframe are sentient and loyal to the orokin

proof?

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

hate to say it but the warframe did break the war/hunhow sword without tenno influence (as shadow was choking them to death) 

[RagingGrizzly]

2 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

The "Breaking War" scene is a much better argument.  The fact that its a frame that you know isn't linked to anyone but yourself, and moves without showing a link-up effect is fairly compelling.  It seems clear that they can do some things independently, but without a mind they react with the intelligence level of simple organisms. 

And because you keep bringing up Shadow Debt, here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Operation:_Shadow_Debt

Its a link to the wiki article, scroll down to the acolytes and click them to open their pages where the dialogue is.  Tell me which one of these actually says anything that supports your idea, because I can't find one. 

Also,

Stay AWAY from the fire!

    -The Lotus

Basically all of Miseries quotes.

 

[Yrveth]

2 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Basically all of Miseries quotes.

Not really tho...

[RagingGrizzly]

2 minutes ago, Belgard said:

Not really tho...

Why is that?

[Yrveth]

Just now, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Why is that?

It just is :)

You first -- quote for quote -- how does Misery support your theory.

Then I'll come back to tell you how it doesn't. Or maybe you will convince me, who knows :)

[Icpmcp]

23 minutes ago, Grimlock84 said:

The warframes themselves show extremely limited animal like intelligence with limited powers.

During that scene the warframe didnt get up to fight off the stalker or save the operator. it simply wanted to not be stabbed and breaking the sword just happened to make the stalker leave.

 

you have to think of it as a relationship where the Tenno(or Operator) thought he was the actual warframe in the beginning, with the second dream showing that this is not true.

The problem is now that we can't say if years or days have passed since your first warframe got called out by spacemom and you starting the second dream. we just can't.

What we also can't say is how long the warframe was inside the cryopod.

What we (probably)can say though is that your warframe should've been pretty long in there which may lead to the Frame being 'unstable' under circumstances(these being the power source cut off).

It could be that because of the sudden cut to its powers it is exausted. as an extreme example: someone breaks his leg. He's not just gonna stand up and walk again. He'll need to take his time so the leg can heal. After that he should be able to walk again.

Now when the warframe first finds his Operator, he just instantly breaks down like a hull. This is the "breaking his leg" part.

The following sequence is your Warframe being directly controlled by the power of the Operator.

Afterwards in the Ship your Frame gets stabbed and Stalker makes his way to the Operator which is still kind of shocked from the sudden awakening from his pod.

The Frame now pulls out the sword and breaks it while the Operator and Crazy guy stalker watch. Stalker explodes, Spacemom carries you to the next pod, the end.

 

TL;DR: The frame could've just been pretty much exausted after all those years of just getting stuffed with power that the only thing still being intact and not broken by void energy could be its deepest survival instincts. Whether or not the Warframe can recover from an Overdose of Void energy I don't know.

 

 

But hey, its just a theory(a gaaaaaaame theory)

Edited March 16, 2016 by Icpmcp

[Leavith]

Well the way I see it is that a Warframe and the tenno were not made at the same time as we know in rhino codex of the morgue and in ember codex case the lady get burned by a tenno meaning the tenno had powers of their own which is consistent with what we already know.

Brining this to light we got lImbo who was refer to a genius and magician of physics for the work he was doing but as we know Limbo is a warframe and a warframe cannot build a warframe so it would make no sense that Limbo made the powers for himself but that a tenno a smart tenno made his own warframe and when he used it for one experiment he ended up exploding probably banishing his operator.

In addition to this we also know that the Warframe only showed signs of being alive when he was stabbed by War which unlike proto rhino from rhino codex showed sign before even being touched being in the presence of a tenno and after being in the presence reacting strangely such as a limp state like our warframe seems to be when he lost touch with us in the ship.

(here is a link to my theory for more details on my way of thinking)-https://forums.warframe.com/topic/609887-wake-up-warframe-a-lore-theory-spoilers-for-2nd-dream/

Edited March 16, 2016 by Leavith

[unknow99]

30 minutes ago, Megakruemel said:

Clem

           -Clem

Grakata.

                 -Clem

[CriticalFumble]

Just now, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Basically all of Miseries quotes.

Yeah.  No. 

Tell you what, lets look at some of these. 

"Enough! You will regret your past crimes..." - Ok, this is the Stalker's mantra, nothing to see. 

"We serve the Shadow, the Stalker, the truth." - Ooooookay, crazy cultist man. 

"The Shadow is pure, undreaming, untainted." - See above.

"We asked... what is thy will, Shadow? Punishment was his call." - See above. 

"These children will not stop us from punishing you. The Shadow commands it." - Hey, man!  At least shout "Spoilers!" first!

"Those who oppose will be consumed. Emotion drives us. Blood divides us." - Forgot your meds, huh?

"The Shadow commands us. Betrayers will die. Orokin blood will dry" - Seek help, man. 

At best - at the VERY best, you have "Undreaming" and "Blood divides us".  "Undreaming" would be the Stalker not going into cryosleep and not being a regular old Tenno, or the Sentient Hunhow being pure.  "Blood divides" could be anything, including Misery simply forgetting to take his meds. 

Make your case. 

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Belgard said:

It just is :)

You first -- quote for quote -- how does Misery support your theory.

Then I'll come back to tell you how it doesn't. Or maybe you will convince me, who knows :)

"The Shadow is pure, undreaming, untainted" 

Assuming that the Tenno have to be in the dream like state to control a warframe. Misery said "undreaming" so I have to assume that he is independent from any sort of outside force or control.

[Marthrym]

What says it's not the Operator that makes the frame break War? Just because Stalker was choking them doesn't mean they couldn't have controlled the frame, even not consciously, maybe it was their subconscious, survival instinct kicking in? Or maybe it was some kind of "echo" of the Operator's will, or an "automated" response due to the bigass sword impaling the frame? Or maybe the frames do have or developped some kind of consciousness with time. I have no fixed opinion on the subject personally, nothing convinced me that either possibility is the "right" one so far. It is interesting to read all the opinions and theories though.^^

[Leavith]

8 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

Yeah.  No. 

Tell you what, lets look at some of these. 

"Enough! You will regret your past crimes..." - Ok, this is the Stalker's mantra, nothing to see. 

"We serve the Shadow, the Stalker, the truth." - Ooooookay, crazy cultist man. 

"The Shadow is pure, undreaming, untainted." - See above.

"We asked... what is thy will, Shadow? Punishment was his call." - See above. 

"These children will not stop us from punishing you. The Shadow commands it." - Hey, man!  At least shout "Spoilers!" first!

"Those who oppose will be consumed. Emotion drives us. Blood divides us." - Forgot your meds, huh?

"The Shadow commands us. Betrayers will die. Orokin blood will dry" - Seek help, man. 

At best - at the VERY best, you have "Undreaming" and "Blood divides us".  "Undreaming" would be the Stalker not going into cryosleep and not being a regular old Tenno, or the Sentient Hunhow being pure.  "Blood divides" could be anything, including Misery simply forgetting to take his meds. 

Make your case. 

Well looking at the context of the event pretty good analysis and the fact being the sentence mention The shadow now themselves they say they serve the shadow.

7 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

"The Shadow is pure, undreaming, untainted" 

Assuming that the Tenno have to be in the dream like state to control a warframe. Misery said "undreaming" so I have to assume that he is independent from any sort of outside force or control.

Misery says the shadow is undreaming not himself they are admirers of the stalker if you had something in common with someone else you would not admire him or mention him in regards of him being undreaming if you were undreaming.

Basic idea here if someone is dead and still walks you would say he walks but he is dead as way to describe how magnificent he is and special.

if someone is alive and can walk you would not say when describing him he walks and he is alive you would give traits that make him special in comparison to you as well as who your describing this to and why you admire him.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Leavith

[Katinka]

5 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

"Undreaming" would be the Stalker not going into cryosleep and not being a regular old Tenno,

Pretty much.  Stalker didn't go into cryosleep, we know this, it's not new evidence.

"Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me."

He and his Acolytes didn't enter the Second Dream and I don't think that line is about anything more than that.