Independent Warframes?

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

I have not heard this theory. Ever. Not one person I have seen has gone this far. Only you have posted it, which makes me assume that you are misunderstanding the theory

It does crop up here and there. If I spot it again, I guess I'll link to it?

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

It does crop up here and there. If I spot it again, I guess I'll link to it?

Please do

The closest theory I've heard to your supposed culprit is that Stalker, and specifically Stalker, both A) had a Zariman kid* who is B) dead. The important implication involved in this is that, assuming the theory is true, Stalker's "independence" occurred after his Zariman kid died

*the only person to provide "evidence" about Stalker having a Zariman kid is Hunhow, who has been shown to be consistently wrong about almost everything

[SilvaDreams]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

I have not heard this theory. Ever. Not one person I have seen has gone this far. Only you have posted it, which makes me assume that you are misunderstanding the theory

Same, first time having seen this off the wall theory.

We learned from the rhino codex the transference chair isn't even needed provided we are close enough, it's just a big antenna for our latent ability. Which is actually reinforced by everything shown in the second dream.

 

As for the frames having their own powers well... Quite sure the original creatures were picked to suit the original operators and their powers so they'd accent their strengths.

[SilentMobius]

I'm going to completely ignore in-world information here because it's really easy for players to fabricate connections between DE's texts and create some elaborate world-state that they then get shouty about when they feel it's been violated (E.G. "Each Warframe has a Tenno", "Nova can't have a Prime", "Valkyr can't have a Prime", "Tenno must be in the Warframe physically")

From a pure out-of-game story perspective.

• Tenno build Warframes from scratch, we define what they are
• Tenno have many Warframes, most are not used
• Tenno build direct replacements and can sell the less effective variants.
• Tenno dominate and control Warframes, sending them into war, which is a violation of bodily autonomy at a very low level.

If Warframes are sapient then this game suddenly becomes "Eugenic Pokemon to the death with mind control". The player character is suddenly cast in the role of Mengler-Moreau-Slavemaster, custom-creating sapients and mind-hijacking them off to war, selling them, trading parts and pitting them against one another in mind-controlled dog-fights.

This would be a hell of a moral switch-up, not something I think DE is likely to do

Now you might say "No it's not mind control, its a hybrid, the Warframes mind merges with the Tenno and there is a symbiosis it's a mutual agreement"

Now there are many stories that used this kind of symbiosis (Be it functional, physical or emotional), it's only a couple of steps away from the "a boy and his dog" type stories, and those stories can, over time, demonstrate a emotional bond between the protagonist and their pet/ai/alien etc. So much so that the inherent master-slave relationship doesn't seem so squicky.

But

That only works one-on-one or where you spend a lot of time illustrating the emotional bond, otherwise it really starts to look odd. Like Pokemon, which is really a whitewashed dysfunctional coc...*ahem*...rooster-fighting simulation. Then you add in the Warframe details of it being to-the-death and the fact that Warframes are designed from scratch, sold at will...

All of a sudden we're Mengler-Moreau-Mindcontrol-Slavemasters, and thats creepy as hell. Not a good 100% mandatory basis for characters who is already plenty messed up.

So no, I don't think DE intend this nor do I think it's likely because it's a storyline that is bad-for-business.

IMHO the only way for this story to work is if Warframes contain no actual intelligence of their own, at most maybe only echos that cannot function as a whole sapient being.

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[BornWithTeeth]

On 17/03/2016 at 8:57 AM, TARINunit9 said:

Please do

The closest theory I've heard to your supposed culprit is that Stalker, and specifically Stalker, both A) had a Zariman kid* who is B) dead. The important implication involved in this is that, assuming the theory is true, Stalker's "independence" occurred after his Zariman kid died

*the only person to provide "evidence" about Stalker having a Zariman kid is Hunhow, who has been shown to be consistently wrong about almost everything

 

[(PSN)chrollodk]

I don't think it's a far fetched idea for warframes to become independent

1. It has infested flesh inside it (not proven but a popular theory considering the whole "why do you try and destroy us deal") 

2. infested constantly evolve (for game mechanic sake I believe we don't see all the various mutations but I believe it's different for each and everyone that gets turned)

3. The whole war being pulled out of the chest

I think personally what could occur for this to happen is that

A) the infested flesh eventually evolve to be able to become a semi independent personality (i.e. Phorid, Jorda Golem, Alad V) 

B) The somatic link allows the infested flesh to take on the personal quirks of the operator (i.e. trying to be a hero)  

C) The somatic link or void powers prevent the the warframe from joining the hive mind of the infested allowed it to develop it's own personality untainted by the hive mind

As well it may be that the somatic link acts very much like what we see in the movie The Gamer (movie with Gerald Butler) where yeah they can take total control when need be but it's better for the operator to work alongside the warframe allowing it to make the moves unless necessary. 

[TARINunit9]

@BornWithTeeth

Reading that thread, I still think you misunderstood him. He posits that Warframes are near-mindless feral beasts without their Zariman kid, and through transference they both make the Warframe calm and allow the Warframe to actually think and make tactical decisions

[Doom_Bunny]

We can only guess with the Stalker as we have no info on what or who the low guardians are. I'd take a guess and say that what ever is using the stalker suit has forgotten about it's own body. The low guardian recognizes the frame as it's real self instead of what is at the other end of the transference.

As for how we got back up after being separated from the tenno. I'd say there is more to transference then what we know, and what we know is nothing. The transference ability does appear to come from the tenno and machines such as the one on our ship allow for the ability to travel a greater distance. My two theories would be that either the transference can travel a short distance, or an imprint of the mind/thoughts of the last tenno is left on the frame.

The first theory is eh, I have no evidence for it. The second theory may be possible due to due to quests like Mirage's where Lotus saw memories and gained messages from the pieces. I could even go as far to say that the last tenno to control Chroma was assigned to protect that place no matter what. However since it's listed as infested Chroma in the codex it could just as easily be the hive mind that is the infestation controlling the frame.

[Hemmo67]

stalker isn't an impedentant warframe. it is just an emo kid tenno who doesnt like the mass murdering of politics, ambushing important people, destroying wolrd eoconomy type of tenno who just wants some revenge cuz we killed his pet turtle :)

[BornWithTeeth]

13 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

@BornWithTeeth

Reading that thread, I still think you misunderstood him. He posits that Warframes are near-mindless feral beasts without their Zariman kid, and through transference they both make the Warframe calm and allow the Warframe to actually think and make tactical decisions

Um, no? What I said on the previous page was that people suggest that the Operators are not actually controlling the Warframes, they're giving them orders which the Warframe decides how to follow.

That is what that dude's take on it is, with the single addition that the Operator's presence in the link is necessary to calm the Warframe down enough that it can follow those orders. His quotes follow:

" Personally I think that the operators CAN'T completely control the waframes, but instead the warframes are a separate entity entirely. Instead the operators act a a calming influence (or a commander as said later in the post), shown by how the raging warframe, calmed down when transference was established.  "

" The operators almost act like commands/tacticians giving order to the soldiers (warframes), while the Lotus is the ruler/queen, who gives order to her generals (Tenno). "

"  I think the operator acts more as a commander/tacticians or moral compass of the frame, while it does the fighting we simply guide it while also supplying the needed energy. "

 

That's.....exactly what I described.

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by BornWithTeeth
Clarity.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 03/16/2016 at 3:29 PM, skelo0 said:

There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe

There is evidence that they need them to function and that tenno believed they were either in or are the frame.

And power wise, Frames already have a power cell so a Tenno must serve as some other function besides just powering powers.

 

My running theory is that if it isn't just tenno body hopping it is something similar to symbiotes. They share a body and work as one rather then just one issuing orders.

Edited March 22, 2016 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Leavith]

Alright I just read that quote you quoted

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

There is evidence that they need them to function and that tenno believed they were either in or are the frame.

And power wise, Frames already have a power cell so a Tenno must serve as some other function besides just powering powers.

iLike really the Excalibur prime codex entry says they builds armors around them which are the warframe.With the technology of the orokin is not far from saying that the warframes are just living armors made of steel and infested flesh...and no the warframe are not what was affected by the void but the tenno the twisted few that came back so that puts the function that the armors we call warframe are made for the Tenno for them to use.The evidence is in the designed look at limbo theorem quest is buggy with the lore but once you connect the dots you realize WHAT the genius is really the tenno.He designed limbo and his powers and in turned the tenno that made limbo theorem formula and the formulas that ordis so happends to love was the genius not the warframe.So Limbo warframe is the conclusion of the tenno scientific work which he tested in a test that ended in its death and limbo warframe sent everywhere in pieces at an the interception post out in space.(probably tried to banish his operator or cataclysm the moon)

some people just want to the words and the tenno control the warframe but when the tenno not control the warframe the warframe is pretty much live cause is made of live tissue hence why it bleeds

Edited March 22, 2016 by Leavith

[Leavith]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

There is evidence that they need them to function and that tenno believed they were either in or are the frame.

And power wise, Frames already have a power cell so a Tenno must serve as some other function besides just powering powers.

 

My running theory is that if it isn't just tenno body hopping it is something similar to symbiotes. They share a body and work as one rather then just one issuing orders.

The orokin help make the warframe for the tenno right...I am not sure they are about free will more like auto pilot.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Um, no? What I said on the last page was that people suggest that the Operators are not actually controlling the Warframes, they're giving them orders which the Warframe decides how to follow.

That is what that dude's take on it is, with the single addition that the Operator's presence in the link is necessary to calm the Warframe down enough that it can follow those orders.

-snip-

Yeah, he ends up contradicting himself, first saying Zariman kids mind meld with Frames, then saying they don't

[xXDeadsinxX]

This is interesting.